Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[DingleJerry]

I like Jrue Holiday, but can also objectively say this was a massive overpay by the Bucks. Feels like Horst dug in too deep and didn’t know how to say no.

Same, this is the type of things I expected for Beal, not Jrue. But hey, this lineup is very good. hope it works and Giannis/Jrue sign or they're done for the 20s

[ajb905]

Giannis must have seriously not wanted to play with CP3.

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Why did NOP go for this though instead of '23 (Could we have traded it?) Great long-term move but you have Zion and a GM who wont be there in seven years to reap the reward of an unprotected first.

[crkone]

My hope is it is #24, '23 and '25 with lottery protections where it will roll forward a couple years but then turn into second rounders or just even dissolve, which is unlikely but possible and done before.

Yes, have protections just in case Giannis gets hurt or the whole supporting cast gets old and useless at the same time. Then just hope you're good for 5 years and the protections don't kick in so it's just picks in the 20's in 2023 and 2025. That's the best-case scenario. I am still supremely worried about that '25 pick though. Personally I think Bledsoe, Hill, and #24 should have been enough. The news that there was a bidding war supports my initial reaction that this was a very steep price.

lol, now we can worry. This has Darko on steroids written all over it. Like I'm glad I will be also 40 at that point and can shrug it off as 'we had a good run', but there good be a very dark period in the late 2020's

Anyone who is worried about a few years of no first rounder (yes even potentially a high lottery pick) needs to look back at 30 years of 8th seed or bust.

[James1980]

Wonder what David Griffin started with, 6 first round picks and 4 pick swaps?

[LUKE23]

To me the biggest issue is the unprotection not necessarily number of picks. For one, we kept most of our 1st round picks in the next 3-4 years. Two, the picks are likely 25-30 the next six years with Giannis signing the supermax. The unprotection is where I have an issue, because as we have seen in other instances around the league, that can backfire. But as I said a few other times, if we can't find guys in FA that match the production of 25-30 picks, we have some issues.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Why did NOP go for this though instead of '23 (Could we have traded it?) Great long-term move but you have Zion and a GM who wont be there in seven years to reap the reward of an unprotected first.

Always nice to have the ammo to get another stud to pair with Zion in the next few years if the opportunity arises. I'm sure they aren't strictly thinking of it as only a pick that will be made in 2027 but more of an asset to utilize down the road at some point.

[LedZepp007]

I like Jrue Holiday, but can also objectively say this was a massive overpay by the Bucks. Feels like Horst dug in too deep and didn’t know how to say no.

Bidding war with philly and Boston. Would’ve been a big problem if either of those teams got him.


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[LedZepp007]

Giannis must have seriously not wanted to play with CP3.

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

Agree to disagree. Jrue is better than CP3 at this point


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[JimmyTheKid]

I like Jrue Holiday, but can also objectively say this was a massive overpay by the Bucks. Feels like Horst dug in too deep and didn’t know how to say no.

Well, definitely. Whats the backup plan if you miss out on Holiday? The overpay was a result of competition for Jrue's services and him being on Giannis' short list.

Also, we have two 2nds to dissect come Wednesday night and Thursday morning! This trade is the gift that keeps on giving.

[SupremeHustle]

Giannis must have seriously not wanted to play with CP3.

Maybe CP3 didn't want to play for the Bucks. Milwaukee is still in Milwaukee.

[Chuck Diesel]

Yikes. Better win a championship in the next 2-3 years I guess. Completely unprotected 1st's when Giannis will be 30-32 years old is not.....ideal.

And that is being optimistic that Giannis is here for the last pick. We literally will be a shell of ourselves at that point with no assets or room. Why would 31 year-old Giannis resign unless he has Dirk level loyalty.

He does have Dirk level loyalty...

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Wonder what David Griffin started with, 6 first round picks and 4 pick swaps?

I can see Horst listening to a negotiations audio book and this week's lessen was "Win the negotiation with silence"

David Griffin: Fine, we want Bled, Hill and #24
Horst: *keep calm, don't say anything* .....
Griffin: and '25
Horst: ....
Griffin: Unprotected
Horst:....
Griffin: and '27 unprotected
Horst: ...
Griffin: and some swaps.

[coolhandluke121]

I'm not even sure this does THAT much to ensure a title. I don't think they're any better than in 2019, for example. I don't even think they're much better than last year, as I don't think their bubble play was a good indication of their ability. I like quantity over quality in general, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players and you still have to have some depth. When you trade this much depth for quality, let alone all the picks, you should be getting borderline all-NBA players.

Isn't the starting lineup going to be incredibly slow-footed on defense? I feel like that could be exploited and this squad might be better on paper than on the court. Giannis has to re-sign and bring some ring-chasers for this to be a decent trade.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Wonder what David Griffin started with, 6 first round picks and 4 pick swaps?

I have a feeling even in David Griffin's wildest dreams he wasn't envisioning this kind of return for Holiday. I don't even think they will be worse on the court in the regular season this year with Bledsoe/Hill instead of Holiday.

[SupremeHustle]

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[Bucksfan28]

Spoiler:

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[Warriors Analyst]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

So we have our 2021 and 2023 1sts, with 2022 going to Cavs (top 10 protected)? I can't keep up.

We keep 21, 23, and 24 and give out the 22. We have our first rounder in three of the next 4 drafts.

Why wouldn't that Cavs get the '21 pick? As long as the Bucks wait until the draft to make this official, this year's pick is not a "future" pick and therefore sending next year's pick to Cleveland should be allowed. By acquiring pick #24 from Indy, the Bucks made that '21 pick eligible to be conveyed.

I can't believe they had to give up '25 and '27 unprotected. That's an awful value for Jrue. Just awful. It's not like Hill and Bledsoe are salary dumps ffs.

Bledsoe was very clearly a salary dump. Getting rid of him is addition by subtraction. There's no way he has value around the league after three straight playoffs where he wets the bed.

[LUKE23]

I'm not even sure this does THAT much to ensure a title. I don't think they're any better than in 2019, for example. I don't even think they're much better than last year, as I don't think their bubble play was a good indication of their ability. I like quantity over quality in general, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players and you still have to have some depth. When you trade this much depth for quality, let alone all the picks, you should be getting borderline all-NBA players.

Isn't the starting lineup going to be incredibly slow-footed on defense? I feel like that could be exploited and this squad might be better on paper than on the court. Giannis has to re-sign and bring some ring-chasers for this to be a decent trade.

Could not disagree more an quantity over quality. Playoff basketball is won with your top 7 guys, and minutes for your starters also increase in the playoffs. The Bucks biggest issue the last couple years was that their 9-11 guys were better than everyone elses, but they had clearly exploitable matchups in the starting five, or matches with Giannis that allowed the wall defense to be utilized.

Holiday and Bogdan is much, much, much better than Bledsoe and Wes. From an offensive versatility standpoint, from an offensive talent standpoint, and it's a better shooting duo as well even if not by a significant amount. I do not like losing Hill, although I think he is a strong candidate for regression.

We also need to talk about how badly Bledsoe has hurt us in playoffs. It's not a coincidence at this point, it's a clear trend. I do not have the same worries with Jrue and his on ball defense is just as good if not better.

I'll glady downgrade our 6-10 spots to clearly upgrade our 3rd and 4th best players. It's not even a discussion. If we want to debate the assets given up for Jrue, fine with that, but not the roster. It's CLEARLY more suited to win in the playoffs.

[ajb905]

Giannis must have seriously not wanted to play with CP3.

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

Agree to disagree. Jrue is better than CP3 at this point


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Jrue has some interesting advanced plus/minus numbers and he is likely underrated considering his all-star totals, but CP3 showed last year he's still got it. Whether he will still have "it" the next 2 years is a fair point. What do we think Jrue is in the league a top 30-ish player? Is that what you should spend all your ammo on? I know Bledsoe couldn't be trusted in the playoffs again, but man I just don't see why getting into a bidding war for Jrue was the all in move to make