Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[Ron Swanson]

Really not worried about Giannis' "loyalty" and I never have been. He's never cared about his "brand" like all these beta AAU superstars do. The issue is obviously when this core ages (Bogdan is 28, Khris is 29 and Holiday and Brook are over 30) and you have little to no ammunition to upgrade the roster in 3-4 years when you still have prime years of Giannis. There's a path to do it, but it's gonna be a tricky tight rope to walk.

[LUKE23]

Really not worried about Giannis' "loyalty" and I never have been. He's never cared about his "brand" like all these beta AAU superstars do. The issue is obviously when this core ages (Bogdan is 28, Khris is 29 and Holiday and Brook are over 30) and you have little to no ammunition to upgrade the roster in 3-4 years when you still have prime years of Giannis. There's a path to do it, but it's gonna be a tricky tight rope to walk.

We do have our first rounders next 3 of 4 years. We are capped out, but we are also capped out with a really talented starting five, so....

[Gianstoppable]

I'm not even sure this does THAT much to ensure a title. I don't think they're any better than in 2019, for example. I don't even think they're much better than last year, as I don't think their bubble play was a good indication of their ability. I like quantity over quality in general, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players and you still have to have some depth. When you trade this much depth for quality, let alone all the picks, you should be getting borderline all-NBA players.

Isn't the starting lineup going to be incredibly slow-footed on defense? I feel like that could be exploited and this squad might be better on paper than on the court. Giannis has to re-sign and bring some ring-chasers for this to be a decent trade.

Idk how we traded a ton of depth. We literally traded all our PG and that's it. Ersan and DJ are nothings

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I'm not even sure this does THAT much to ensure a title. I don't think they're any better than in 2019, for example. I don't even think they're much better than last year, as I don't think their bubble play was a good indication of their ability. I like quantity over quality in general, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players and you still have to have some depth. When you trade this much depth for quality, let alone all the picks, you should be getting borderline all-NBA players.

Isn't the starting lineup going to be incredibly slow-footed on defense? I feel like that could be exploited and this squad might be better on paper than on the court. Giannis has to re-sign and bring some ring-chasers for this to be a decent trade.

im with you on it doesn't make us much better, but I thought we were pretty damn close the last 2 years and will be next year. I look at this more of spending $300 on a nice dinner on a date night with the wife. The dinner doesn't make any financial sense. It doesn't make us better and hurts us long-term. But you know what, the wife is happier and that's all that matters. We just need to keep Giannis and we are contenders.

If Giannis does a 2+1 or something, then this really blows up.

[ajb905]

Read on Twitter

I'd prefer to see him workout versus a chair, then we'll really know if we got something

[Bucksfan28]

Also Jrue's C&S numbers are better than his overall percentage indicates (typically above 36% from 3). He just also takes a lot of pull-up 3s which drives his numbers down.

[crkone]

If you compare to 2019, it would be Bledsoe+Hill vs Holiday and Brogdon vs Bogdan.

[LUKE23]

I don't think it changes our regular season win total much (on pace for 63 wins last year), but it does make it harder to beat in the playoffs. This starting five will be way tougher to scheme against defensively than the old one.

Good read here: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/bucks-deliver-on-giannis-antetokounmpos-demand-with-big-time-trades-for-jrue-holiday-bogdan-bogdanovic/?fbclid=IwAR0lZ4tHJn61z4_8vdT38SqpXJlhAeGHFynM5yZCA4naHSu1TLHIGh0KjH4

[JimmyTheKid]

Really not worried about Giannis' "loyalty" and I never have been. He's never cared about his "brand" like all these beta AAU superstars do. The issue is obviously when this core ages (Bogdan is 28, Khris is 29 and Holiday and Brook are over 30) and you have little to no ammunition to upgrade the roster in 3-4 years when you still have prime years of Giannis. There's a path to do it, but it's gonna be a tricky tight rope to walk.

Eh, thats easy to say now that we completely reshaped the roster. Giannis doesn't care about his brand but he sure as sh*t cares about winning. If we just make small tweaks this offseason and don't land his preferred players, I'm not convinced he's signing the supermax. Bow out before the Finals again and I'd say its likely he's as good as gone. Glad we pushed all our chips.

[Ruben Quevedo]

This is going to be a disaster isn't it?

A shame we pissed away 7 years of building around Giannis to go all-in on a good, but not great player WHO CAN LEAVE FOR NOTHING after this season.

[tedbrogen]

Giannis must have seriously not wanted to play with CP3.

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

Agree to disagree. Jrue is better than CP3 at this point


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Their is a strong case to be made that Jrue is a significantly better fit assuming Bud is still the coach. Jrue is unquestionably one of the best defenders in the league. He will chase guys around screens. CP3 would not. The issue with trading Bledsoe was always what would they do about point of attack defense without him. Jrue is the one starting point guard in the league who might actually be an improvement on Bledsoe defensively.

I think that is a HUGE reason they were willing to part with the picks. If they didn't because they were worried about a pick in 2027 and Boston or Philly gets Jrue and the Bucks have to run it back with Bledsoe or dump him for someone who can't play elite D, that is a huge issue and makes Giannis far less likely to sign before the season.

CP3 is undoubtedly a superior offensive player to Jrue, but was Bud all of a sudden going to spam PnR with Giannis screening for CP3? If they are still playing Bud Ball, they needed a PG who can play off ball more than on ball and hit spot up threes. Judging by Jrue's shot chart, it appears he is well above average at that from the corners and one of the wings. Not to mention, to be an improvement on Bledsoe, Jrue just has to hit better than 25% on wide open threes in the playoffs.

Also, Jrue is more likely to be able to handle big minutes all season and in the playoffs than CP3.

[tedbrogen]

This is going to be a disaster isn't it?

A shame we pissed away 7 years of building around Giannis to go all-in on a good, but not great player WHO CAN LEAVE FOR NOTHING after this season.

If the trade was the tipping point for Giannis signing the supermax now versus waiting, isn't that worth it? I'd trade the picks alone if it meant Giannis agreed to sign the supermax before Dec. 21.

[ajb905]

Spoiler:

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

Agree to disagree. Jrue is better than CP3 at this point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Their is a strong case to be made that Jrue is a significantly better fit assuming Bud is still the coach. Jrue is unquestionably one of the best defenders in the league. He will chase guys around screens. CP3 would not. The issue with trading Bledsoe was always what would they do about point of attack defense without him. Jrue is the one starting point guard in the league who might actually be an improvement on Bledsoe defensively.

I think that is a HUGE reason they were willing to part with the picks. If they didn't because they were worried about a pick in 2027 and Boston or Philly gets Jrue and the Bucks have to run it back with Bledsoe or dump him for someone who can't play elite D, that is a huge issue and makes Giannis far less likely to sign before the season.

CP3 is undoubtedly a superior offensive player to Jrue, but was Bud all of a sudden going to spam PnR with Giannis screening for CP3? If they are still playing Bud Ball, they needed a PG who can play off ball more than on ball and hit spot up threes. Judging by Jrue's shot chart, it appears he is well above average at that from the corners and one of the wings. Not to mention, to be an improvement on Bledsoe, Jrue just has to hit better than 25% on wide open threes in the playoffs.

Also, Jrue is more likely to be able to handle big minutes all season and in the playoffs than CP3.

I've been itching for some Giannis PnR, but you make good points. I think you can argue either way, who is a better player for the next 2 years. The issue is the price tag between the 2 players. One cost the moon, the other cost a 2016 Ford Fiesta

[SirChurros]

This is going to be a disaster isn't it?

A shame we pissed away 7 years of building around Giannis to go all-in on a good, but not great player WHO CAN LEAVE FOR NOTHING after this season.

You really think Jrue Holiday is opting out of a $27m player option with the market uncertainty the way it is?

[tedbrogen]

Yeah it is truly shocking to look at those deals side by side. I get that CP3 is a jerk, has a bigger contract, and is older. But even with all that, he's still a bigger difference maker than Jrue for the next 2 years (load managed till the playoffs). Then you have some bullets left to use after his contract is only 26, it's really crazy that Jrue was the ultimate prize that had to be obtained no matter what.

I can imagine with enough behind the scenes moves, the Bucks could have pulled off Harden. Maybe Beal at the deadline?

Agree to disagree. Jrue is better than CP3 at this point


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Jrue has some interesting advanced plus/minus numbers and he is likely underrated considering his all-star totals, but CP3 showed last year he's still got it. Whether he will still have "it" the next 2 years is a fair point. What do we think Jrue is in the league a top 30-ish player? Is that what you should spend all your ammo on? I know Bledsoe couldn't be trusted in the playoffs again, but man I just don't see why getting into a bidding war for Jrue was the all in move to make

There are multiple NBA players saying Jrue is the best defensive guard in the entire league. He's definitely a MUCH better fit offensively than Bledsoe and possibly a better defender. Upgrading at PG while shedding a guy that the league KNEW you had to move is a big deal.

[Turk Nowitzki]

This is going to be a disaster isn't it?

A shame we pissed away 7 years of building around Giannis to go all-in on a good, but not great player WHO CAN LEAVE FOR NOTHING after this season.

You really think Jrue Holiday is opting out of a $27m player option with the market uncertainty the way it is?

If he has a normal season for him and the league doesn't get shut down because of Covid or something, of course he's opting out of that.

[buckboy]

Wow I can't believe unprotected 2027. What the hell. The swaps are just completely over the top too.

'27 is the only one that really worries me.

The swaps should (hopefully) be irrelevant.

[Licensed to Il]

Another thing not mentioned... if Philly lands Harden, or more realistically if Brooklyn lands Harden, there are going to be a tier of guys who want a legit chance at a ring, and are going to view us as their best chance at minutes and a title. I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised at who wants on to our bench.

[trwi7]

Read on Twitter

This is excellent. Getting a few 2nds back will help add young, cheap talent this year. Was wondering why we couldn't have gotten a 2nd or two back that the Pels wouldn't even be using this year.

Looking to turn these into a lottery pick. Don't let me down Horsty.

[Nowak008]

Read on Twitter

This is excellent. Getting a few 2nds back will help add young, cheap talent this year. Was wondering why we couldn't have gotten a 2nd or two back that the Pels wouldn't even be using this year.

Looking to turn these into a lottery pick. Don't let me down Horsty.

I don't have too much faith in these 2nds because we don't have a first rounder to blow on a terrible pick.