Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[jschligs]

Let's be honest here. The Bucks did not give all those picks just for a practically expiring contract in Jrue.

The Bucks gave all those picks in order to:
- Get rid of Bledsoe, who is an absolute nightmare next to Giannis (not just Bledsoe's fault, but it is irrelevant now).
- Get rid of Hill, who even though has been a big positive for the Bucks, his performance in the last playoffs has been quite bad. He is also at an age where you really have to worry about massive drops in performance/non sustainable performance.
- Add Jrue, who is a more versatile defender (and arguably a better defender) than Bledsoe, and can actually shoot. So, he is playable next to Giannis, will not fill the lanes with his presence and (most importantly for me) is a much better decision maker than Bledsoe.

Did the Bucks overpay? Absolutely.
Are the Pelicans laughing at the haul they got from the Bucks? Absolutely. I bet they can't believe it.
Did the Bucks have another option, considering the horrible choices their FOs made all those years? Absolutely not.

Every bad choice the FO made has a side effect even years later.

I have no idea how the Bucks are going to renew their roster 3 years from now and compete, even assuming Giannis stays.

I hope Jrue renews as well. The alternative would be horrible for the Bucks.

Also, us acquiring Jrue meant Boston and Philly didn't. Which is huge for me.

[TD75]

Let's be honest here. The Bucks did not give all those picks just for a practically expiring contract in Jrue.

The Bucks gave all those picks in order to:
- Get rid of Bledsoe, who is an absolute nightmare next to Giannis (not just Bledsoe's fault, but it is irrelevant now).
- Get rid of Hill, who even though has been a big positive for the Bucks, his performance in the last playoffs has been quite bad. He is also at an age where you really have to worry about massive drops in performance/non sustainable performance.
- Add Jrue, who is a more versatile defender (and arguably a better defender) than Bledsoe, and can actually shoot. So, he is playable next to Giannis, will not fill the lanes with his presence and (most importantly for me) is a much better decision maker than Bledsoe.

Did the Bucks overpay? Absolutely.
Are the Pelicans laughing at the haul they got from the Bucks? Absolutely. I bet they can't believe it.
Did the Bucks have another option, considering the horrible choices their FOs made all those years? Absolutely not.

Every bad choice the FO made has a side effect even years later.

I have no idea how the Bucks are going to renew their roster 3 years from now and compete, even assuming Giannis stays.

I hope Jrue renews as well. The alternative would be horrible for the Bucks.

Also, us acquiring Jrue meant Boston and Philly didn't. Which is huge for me.

I understand this point of view, but if the rumors that Boston and Philly were placing competing offers for Jrue are true, they would have also payed a heavy price to add him. I can't know of course the details, but I can see a scenario where it is debatable how much it would benefit them in the end.

The addition by subtraction for the Bucks is huge though. Maybe that is why Boston and Philly were competing in this trade

[raferfenix]

Bucks will need to develop young players on our roster (regardless of where or even if they were drafted) if we want to be able to retool a few years from now.

Heat have threaded that needle.

[JimmyTheKid]

Let's be honest here. The Bucks did not give all those picks just for a practically expiring contract in Jrue.

The Bucks gave all those picks in order to:
- Get rid of Bledsoe, who is an absolute nightmare next to Giannis (not just Bledsoe's fault, but it is irrelevant now).
- Get rid of Hill, who even though has been a big positive for the Bucks, his performance in the last playoffs has been quite bad. He is also at an age where you really have to worry about massive drops in performance/non sustainable performance.
- Add Jrue, who is a more versatile defender (and arguably a better defender) than Bledsoe, and can actually shoot. So, he is playable next to Giannis, will not fill the lanes with his presence and (most importantly for me) is a much better decision maker than Bledsoe.

Did the Bucks overpay? Absolutely.
Are the Pelicans laughing at the haul they got from the Bucks? Absolutely. I bet they can't believe it.
Did the Bucks have another option, considering the horrible choices their FOs made all those years? Absolutely not.

Every bad choice the FO made has a side effect even years later.

I have no idea how the Bucks are going to renew their roster 3 years from now and compete, even assuming Giannis stays.

I hope Jrue renews as well. The alternative would be horrible for the Bucks.

Guessing there had to have been some form of a verbal commitment on an extension from Jrue's team to pull the trigger on giving up that kind of package.

[TD75]

Let's be honest here. The Bucks did not give all those picks just for a practically expiring contract in Jrue.

The Bucks gave all those picks in order to:
- Get rid of Bledsoe, who is an absolute nightmare next to Giannis (not just Bledsoe's fault, but it is irrelevant now).
- Get rid of Hill, who even though has been a big positive for the Bucks, his performance in the last playoffs has been quite bad. He is also at an age where you really have to worry about massive drops in performance/non sustainable performance.
- Add Jrue, who is a more versatile defender (and arguably a better defender) than Bledsoe, and can actually shoot. So, he is playable next to Giannis, will not fill the lanes with his presence and (most importantly for me) is a much better decision maker than Bledsoe.

Did the Bucks overpay? Absolutely.
Are the Pelicans laughing at the haul they got from the Bucks? Absolutely. I bet they can't believe it.
Did the Bucks have another option, considering the horrible choices their FOs made all those years? Absolutely not.

Every bad choice the FO made has a side effect even years later.

I have no idea how the Bucks are going to renew their roster 3 years from now and compete, even assuming Giannis stays.

I hope Jrue renews as well. The alternative would be horrible for the Bucks.

Guessing there had to have been some form of a verbal commitment on an extension from Jrue's team to pull the trigger on giving up that kind of package.

I really hope so.

[theFireBlanket]

Read on Twitter

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How this isn't elite? And that's just one aspect of his game. He boards better the longer he's in the NBA, has handles, shoots well, dishes...

Giannis is going to be mentioned alongside Russell, Jordan & Kareem at the end of the decade. 2025/27 going to nearly 2nd round, the pick swaps won't happen. That was a hell of a trade, even if it seems crazy in real-time or even today.

[DingleJerry]

Besides Bledsoe and DDV what team speed did they lose defensively? Jrue can do everything Bledsoe did defensively but won't be unplayable on offense. DDV will be missed but unless he suddenly developed a league average three point shot, he was also unplayable on offense.

Wes isn't a sprinter but has much quicker feet on defense than Bogdan. DDV was very good in that regard. Hill was a very solid defender, notwithstanding his bubble disappearance, which I do concede was cause for concern going forward. Marvin was a very quick small-ball 4/5 type.

Withholding final judgement until I see what ring-chasers they can lure, but they'll have to do well in that department and get Giannis to extend to justify these trades.

All true. But starting/closing lineup specifically the only change/downgrade is Wes to Brogdon. Based on where our weaknesses ended up killing us in the playoffs trading some D for offense/shooting is the route they should have gone so I can't rip them much fo it. But yes, they really need some depths guys now in those backup G areas, we'll see who they get.

Another thing that popped in my head is on Lopez. Let's assume the plan works here and Jrue/Giannis sign back. In the next offseason or two a trade of Lopez could also happen as his contract gets close to the end to also shake up and/or bring in some youth/athleticism or shooting. He'd kind of be our last trade chip assuming he gets through this year still being descent and healthy. Tougher without any picks to trade but things can happen.

[CharityStripe34]

Overall I like the trade. A franchise like Milwaukee gets a generational superstar only every so often (like, 40 years), you have to try to do the best you can with what you have at your disposal. I'm no cap guru, but as I understand it there's the potential where with Jrue (and Bogie) you're adding a scorer, playmaker and (in Jrue's case) a very good defender. He's a combo guard who can run a solid pick-and-roll and this accomplishes a ton in the half-court offense because it removes a bit of responsibility from Gianni from having to be primary scorer and play-maker. Expensive deal to be sure but given the timetable the Bucks had with one year left on Gianni's deal, they had to make some sort of moves. I'm glad they pulled the trigger and are trying to retool because I do think Holiday is an upgrade from Bledsoe. Specifically come playoff time.

[BuildingBucks]

I've wanted Jrue on this team for years. There is nothing wrong with what we gave up. It was a bidding war between us and two other Eastern Conference rivals. We showed Giannis we are committed to going for it, while still keeping his friend Middleton and acquiring another friend of his in Bogdan. Along with having his older brother on the roster. Giannis and Khris like a certain kind of locker room. Unlikely we ever bring in a Morris twin or people like that unless approved by those two. Jrue fits in perfectly.

I doubted Giannis would ever leave based on things I know, but it was smart of Giannis to hold out a little and at least somewhat leave that door open. It forced the Bucks to prove themselves vs being complacent because we have the MVP locked up. Giannis is going to sign the extension, and we don't make this trade unless Jrue is signing one too.

The most important offseason in Bucks history looks like a huge success. Good job Horst and the rest of the front office for having some balls and going for it. I was nervous on the Bucks future after the Heat series but I feel rejuvenated. Still more work to be done to fill the roster but I'm looking forward to the upcoming season a lot more than I was just a few days ago.

[Daver]

Bucks will need to develop young players on our roster (regardless of where or even if they were drafted) if we want to be able to retool a few years from now.

Heat have threaded that needle.

I think 2 much credit is given to miami for their young players.
Herro was predicted to be a tip 15 pick as was bam now i will admit both have turned out to be very good but it wasnt as if they were picked in the 2nd round.
The only player they got lucky with was robinson though in college he was near the top in 3 pt Fg % and sunn

[LUKE23]

I misspoke. I meant to say "I generally like quality over quantity, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players." That second clause doesn't even make sense as a follow-up to the first clause until you realize I just had quantity and quality backwards. I meant to acknowledge that quality is better than quantity in general, but I'm questioning whether Jrue is enough of a quality upgrade to justify the haul. That's the type of haul you give up for a perennial all-NBA candidate IMO. And like you said, you need 7-8 reliable guys in the playoffs and this just leaves 5 decent players. I'm optimistic they'll get some ring-chasers but until that happens and Giannis re-signs, I'm not going to be able to begin to digest all those picks they gave up. And even when it does happen, I'm still going to be a Bucks fan when those picks come due and I think it's going to be a bad situation.

I stand by what I said about lacking team speed on defense though. They should be better suited for the playoffs if they get some good ring-chasers, but I see this as a major vulnerability that will be pretty easy to exploit.

The issue is that I don't think all 1sts are created equal, so I have an issue with comparing it to a superstar trade. This was done assuming Giannis will re-sign, which immediately turns the 1sts into borderline second rounders. So the quantity of picks given up is not really an issue through the 26 draft, when Giannis will be here, outside of the potential 2025 unprotected, which would require a Giannis injury to truly turn into a massive piece. The 2027 unprotected pick as of this time could be a huge giveaway, time will tell on that.

I feel that their D will just as good as last year, if not better. I've watched a ton of Holiday clips in the last day, and he gets after ball handlers even more than Bled, and has the quickness and strength to stay with most 1's and 2's. That versatility of being able to guard wings will help us a lot. I think he will be a better overall defender than Bledsoe was.

Now, will Bogdan be as good as Wes on D? No, but we were the top defensive team in the league last year and got better at PG while maintaining elite rim defense with Giannis and Lopez. To me the playoff D is more scheme related than personnel related.

I think we have the best starting five in the NBA with these moves. We have arguably the best player, and now legit #2, #3, and #4 scorers for a contender. We have just as good of floor spacing if not better than last year. We basically need to find two good bench players to complete this, using a portion of the MLE, vet minimum, and two seconds.

I think the gamble is well worth it. This team will be much harder to scheme against in the playoffs.

[FlagsFlyForever]

I really think that Harden, Durant, and Irving with a bunch of scrubs under a first year head coach would be a ****. That’s just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's what I thought about LeBron, AD, and a bunch of scrubs. I think it hinges on Durant. If he returns to being the second best player in the world, Brooklyn is the team to beat in the East.

[agiaco]

It's important to not get too caught up in draft picks. Especially if they're all late first-rounders. This move not only makes the team significantly better, it likely is the catalyst that will keep Giannis on the Bucks for a long time. Holiday checks just about every box for a guard the Bucks need. He's a better defender than Bledsoe and better offensively. He's also a great guy and should mesh well with the core.

At this point with the way the starting 5 is looking, I have no doubt the Bucks will sign a handful of very solid vets looking to compete for a ring. Plus any time you have that much talent in 5 guys, they can work to plug-and-play some younger talent that could fit in even if it's a couple of the second rounders this year or G-League talent.

[DingleJerry]

It's important to not get too caught up in draft picks. Especially if they're all late first-rounders. This move not only makes the team significantly better, it likely is the catalyst that will keep Giannis on the Bucks for a long time. Holiday checks just about every box for a guard the Bucks need. He's a better defender than Bledsoe and better offensively. He's also a great guy and should mesh well with the core.

At this point with the way the starting 5 is looking, I have no doubt the Bucks will sign a handful of very solid vets looking to compete for a ring. Plus any time you have that much talent in 5 guys, they can work to plug-and-play some younger talent that could fit in even if it's a couple of the second rounders this year or G-League talent.

Yes for sure, as long as Giannis resigns and/or doesn't get hurt the picks aren't a big deal (while still being a clear overpay). It's the potential that both stars could be gone this offseason at which point we'd be the joke everyone makes fun of like BKN a few years ago. They have to know or at least be supremely confident he's staying to do this, they just have to.

[Ayt]

That is an absurd amount of 1st round value to give up for Jrue Holiday. Still, he should be a gigantic upgrade over Bledsoe in the playoffs who was basically unplayable.

The Bucks need to win it all.

[emunney]

Bucks will need to develop young players on our roster (regardless of where or even if they were drafted) if we want to be able to retool a few years from now.

Heat have threaded that needle.

You just have to be confident about the facts that 1) there are playable guys who aren't even in the NBA yet, and that 2) it's your profession to identify them and bring them in.

I'd be psyched if I were a personnel guy for the Bucks. It's resume building time.

[Chuck Diesel]

I’m excited to see the pu pu platter of Tyler Ennis, Jonas Jerebko, Siderious Thornwell and Anfernee Simons these pics ultimately become.

[coolhandluke121]

I misspoke. I meant to say "I generally like quality over quantity, but it's not like Bogdan and Jrue are premium players." That second clause doesn't even make sense as a follow-up to the first clause until you realize I just had quantity and quality backwards. I meant to acknowledge that quality is better than quantity in general, but I'm questioning whether Jrue is enough of a quality upgrade to justify the haul. That's the type of haul you give up for a perennial all-NBA candidate IMO. And like you said, you need 7-8 reliable guys in the playoffs and this just leaves 5 decent players. I'm optimistic they'll get some ring-chasers but until that happens and Giannis re-signs, I'm not going to be able to begin to digest all those picks they gave up. And even when it does happen, I'm still going to be a Bucks fan when those picks come due and I think it's going to be a bad situation.

I stand by what I said about lacking team speed on defense though. They should be better suited for the playoffs if they get some good ring-chasers, but I see this as a major vulnerability that will be pretty easy to exploit.

The issue is that I don't think all 1sts are created equal, so I have an issue with comparing it to a superstar trade. This was done assuming Giannis will re-sign, which immediately turns the 1sts into borderline second rounders. So the quantity of picks given up is not really an issue through the 26 draft, when Giannis will be here, outside of the potential 2025 unprotected, which would require a Giannis injury to truly turn into a massive piece. The 2027 unprotected pick as of this time could be a huge giveaway, time will tell on that.

I feel that their D will just as good as last year, if not better. I've watched a ton of Holiday clips in the last day, and he gets after ball handlers even more than Bled, and has the quickness and strength to stay with most 1's and 2's. That versatility of being able to guard wings will help us a lot. I think he will be a better overall defender than Bledsoe was.

Now, will Bogdan be as good as Wes on D? No, but we were the top defensive team in the league last year and got better at PG while maintaining elite rim defense with Giannis and Lopez. To me the playoff D is more scheme related than personnel related.

I think we have the best starting five in the NBA with these moves. We have arguably the best player, and now legit #2, #3, and #4 scorers for a contender. We have just as good of floor spacing if not better than last year. We basically need to find two good bench players to complete this, using a portion of the MLE, vet minimum, and two seconds.

I think the gamble is well worth it. This team will be much harder to scheme against in the playoffs.

I agree with basically everything except the issue of the picks, provided they get quality ring-chasers and Giannis extends. I think you're downplaying how disastrous those traded picks could be. There are also pick swaps in '24 and '26. That is a lot of chances for Giannis to get hurt or, worse yet, for the supporting cast around him to age and deteriorate, causing him to force his way out. If they don't get a title out of this, they could lose multiple very good picks.

I'm not really hating on the defense but I think it will be something top teams exploit in the playoffs, and if they don't get a title out of this, I think it's a major disappointment.

[DrWood]

imo, the trade doesn't improve us (at least during the regular season) in the short term, and hurts us significantly In the future.
The only upside I see is if Giannis sees this as something to make him sign a supermax.

[humanrefutation]

To the folks who are saying that the package we have up for Jrue would have been better off being used to acquire an superstar quality player, can you name someone who we could have landed with that package who was better than Jrue? Because I don't think we're getting Harden for that package, and I'm wondering who else would pick up the phone to deal a superstar for 2 years of Bledsoe, Hill, and hopefully some low first rounders?