Moderators: PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier, penbeast0, trex_8063
eminence wrote:Would just like to say I'm very fine with folks who are fluid in their voting process. I would say I have some set criteria I follow (roughly era dominance based on play, with a preference for longevity and a fairly even offense/defense balance) but I have no problem with someone who's growing their criteria with every ballot.
Democracy.
And congrats to Robinson! A worthy pick here.
Dutchball97 wrote:Wow, 15-17 was a real rough stretch. Hope these longevity/regular season candidates are going to stop at some point.
Really not looking forward to having to vote Kawhi for 50 spots straight as I very much doubt he'll get traction around the 30-40 range considering the likes of Dr J, KD, Curry, Wade and Barkley can't even get ahead of Karl Malone or D-Rob.
70sFan wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Wow, 15-17 was a real rough stretch. Hope these longevity/regular season candidates are going to stop at some point.
Really not looking forward to having to vote Kawhi for 50 spots straight as I very much doubt he'll get traction around the 30-40 range considering the likes of Dr J, KD, Curry, Wade and Barkley can't even get ahead of Karl Malone or D-Rob.
Again, you're assuming that Malone and Admiral were worse basketball players than KD, Dr J, Barkley or Wade. Not everyone agree with that.
Dutchball97 wrote:70sFan wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Wow, 15-17 was a real rough stretch. Hope these longevity/regular season candidates are going to stop at some point.
Really not looking forward to having to vote Kawhi for 50 spots straight as I very much doubt he'll get traction around the 30-40 range considering the likes of Dr J, KD, Curry, Wade and Barkley can't even get ahead of Karl Malone or D-Rob.
Again, you're assuming that Malone and Admiral were worse basketball players than KD, Dr J, Barkley or Wade. Not everyone agree with that.
How am I assuming anything? If you can defend Karl Malone or D-Rob's peak over any of the guys listed be my guest but it's gonna be a scuffed argument. If play-offs isn't important to you, why not vote Giannis?
70sFan wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:70sFan wrote:Again, you're assuming that Malone and Admiral were worse basketball players than KD, Dr J, Barkley or Wade. Not everyone agree with that.
How am I assuming anything? If you can defend Karl Malone or D-Rob's peak over any of the guys listed be my guest but it's gonna be a scuffed argument. If play-offs isn't important to you, why not vote Giannis?
If defense isn't important to you, then maybe you think that Robinson didn't peak high. Others value defense significantly higher though, so they can believe that Admiral was better than Durant or Barkley.
Giannis has 3 elite seasons, we don't vote for him for the same reason we don't vote for Bill Walton. Giannis isn't worse player than Durant in terms of peak.
Dutchball97 wrote:70sFan wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:
How am I assuming anything? If you can defend Karl Malone or D-Rob's peak over any of the guys listed be my guest but it's gonna be a scuffed argument. If play-offs isn't important to you, why not vote Giannis?
If defense isn't important to you, then maybe you think that Robinson didn't peak high. Others value defense significantly higher though, so they can believe that Admiral was better than Durant or Barkley.
Giannis has 3 elite seasons, we don't vote for him for the same reason we don't vote for Bill Walton. Giannis isn't worse player than Durant in terms of peak.
Okay so play-offs really aren't important for you then if you see Giannis as having peaked higher than KD. Defense isn't half as important as offense in the NBA. Looking at the game in terms of offense on one hand and defense on the other hand is a highly flawed way of looking at things. Sure you could say D-Rob was close enough to Barkley and KD in terms of offense that his defense makes the difference but that only applies to the regular season. You're prioritizing the qualifying games over the games that actually matter.
Amares wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:70sFan wrote:If defense isn't important to you, then maybe you think that Robinson didn't peak high. Others value defense significantly higher though, so they can believe that Admiral was better than Durant or Barkley.
Giannis has 3 elite seasons, we don't vote for him for the same reason we don't vote for Bill Walton. Giannis isn't worse player than Durant in terms of peak.
Okay so play-offs really aren't important for you then if you see Giannis as having peaked higher than KD. Defense isn't half as important as offense in the NBA. Looking at the game in terms of offense on one hand and defense on the other hand is a highly flawed way of looking at things. Sure you could say D-Rob was close enough to Barkley and KD in terms of offense that his defense makes the difference but that only applies to the regular season. You're prioritizing the qualifying games over the games that actually matter.
This is greatest careers list, not greatest 3-4 playoffs periods. So players like Kawhi we can consider top 50 by now, but they need few more good years at least to be ~top25 considerations. Other than that D-Rob at his prime was clearly better than Durant, Barkley or Wade, and it's playoffs included. Saying defense isn't half as important as offense you just prove your lack of knowledge about this game. Also players like Barkley or Wade has no reason to be above Malone, not only he achieved more than both, but had comparable prime and much better longevity.
Dutchball97 wrote:Okay so play-offs really aren't important for you then if you see Giannis as having peaked higher than KD.
Defense isn't half as important as offense in the NBA.
Looking at the game in terms of offense on one hand and defense on the other hand is a highly flawed way of looking at things.
Sure you could say D-Rob was close enough to Barkley and KD in terms of offense that his defense makes the difference but that only applies to the regular season. You're prioritizing the qualifying games over the games that actually matter.
Dutchball97 wrote:Amares wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:
Okay so play-offs really aren't important for you then if you see Giannis as having peaked higher than KD. Defense isn't half as important as offense in the NBA. Looking at the game in terms of offense on one hand and defense on the other hand is a highly flawed way of looking at things. Sure you could say D-Rob was close enough to Barkley and KD in terms of offense that his defense makes the difference but that only applies to the regular season. You're prioritizing the qualifying games over the games that actually matter.
This is greatest careers list, not greatest 3-4 playoffs periods. So players like Kawhi we can consider top 50 by now, but they need few more good years at least to be ~top25 considerations. Other than that D-Rob at his prime was clearly better than Durant, Barkley or Wade, and it's playoffs included. Saying defense isn't half as important as offense you just prove your lack of knowledge about this game. Also players like Barkley or Wade has no reason to be above Malone, not only he achieved more than both, but had comparable prime and much better longevity.
That's what I said about Kawhi though? His longevity isn't good enough yet to be top 20 but I'm afraid some people would rather vote for someone like Robert Parish instead of Kawhi due to longevity, while Parish wasn't even close to the player Kawhi is. Longevity should augment peak, not overrule it.
Your arguments for D-Rob and Karl Malone are just as hollow as 70sfan's arguments. Which are none. D-Rob is clearly better? Well you know I disagree so why don't explain it to me instead of just stating unsubstantiated claims?
Anyway if you're gonna act high and mighty over my basketball knowledge you can **** right off tbh. In a game where the majority of possessions end in points, while misses aren't even always caused by the defense, you can't claim offense and defense have a 1:1 ratio.
Next please.
70sFan wrote:Hakeem and Duncan weren't better offensive players than Barkley either and nobody finds it ridiculous that they are much higher. Why different criteria for someone like Robinson?
