Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[thrice123]

Not sure if this was posted already

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That looks like it would be the worst pair of show hosts you could ever find.

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[BuckFan25226]

What's going on with the fact this isn't official yet? I know some reporting that there is still small haggling over which exact picks are involved. But wouldn't that mean we haven't agreed to a deal?

Giannis changed his relationship status to "It's complicated".

[Bucksfan28]

I only watch clips from All The Smoke but theyve been pretty entertaining.

[paulpressey25]

Listened to SImmons pod. There are a lot of topics to unpack from it. Will save some for later. Here were my two big takeaways.

They both like the Bogdan trade. Feel that he's a guy that is able to get some shots off when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. Much more so than the other guys the Bucks ran out there with Giannis in the past.

On Jrue, will try to cobble together what I think was a main theme. Shouldn't the superstar that wants help, be more cognizant that overpaying for help might be crazy damaging to the franchise, and prevent said superstar from getting help down the road. The question was posed: Wouldn't it be more important for the Bucks/Giannis success to have some of those assets to use in the next couple years, versus dumping everything on the table for Jrue Holiday.

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25? Would David Griffin have really hung up the phone if Horst said "I'm only doing one pick swap instead of two".

Those were fair observations we'll all struggle with in the years ahead.

[Ron Swanson]

Listened to SImmons pod. There are a lot of topics to unpack from it. Will save some for later. Here were my two big takeaways.

They both like the Bogdan trade. Feel that he's a guy that is able to get some shots off when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. Much more so than the other guys the Bucks ran out there with Giannis in the past.

On Jrue, will try to cobble together what I think was a main theme. Shouldn't the superstar that wants help, be more cognizant that overpaying for help might be crazy damaging to the franchise, and prevent said superstar from getting help down the road. The question was posed: Wouldn't it be more important for the Bucks/Giannis success to have some of those assets to use in the next couple years, versus dumping everything on the table for Jrue Holiday.

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25? Would David Griffin have really hung up the phone if Horst said "I'm only doing one pick swap instead of two".

Those were fair observations we'll all struggle with in the years ahead.

This. It's easy to say that everything is justified if it means Giannis signs on the dotted line, but after years of this board griping over squandering even the most miniscule assets, am a little taken aback at how we're glossing over the price tag here. It's not the question of should the front office have been this aggressive (they absolutely should be), it's the player.

[HKPackFan]

Are there protections on the pick swaps do we think, or are those unprotected too?

If not then tanking is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

Read on Twitter

BAHAHAHAHA. no more tank gifs on post game threads for at least 7years.

I remember not too long ago after a while to Google and find a unique tank gif was getting more and more challenging.

[Siefer]

I'm not a regular Simmons listener these days, but I tuned in to the conversation on the Bucks, and almost turned the pod off because I was again reminded of how obnoxious I find Russillo. Simmons at least has the good sense to suggest he's self-aware of his shoot from the hips takes, but Russillo just subs in aggressive and confident declarations equal in proportion to his lack of actual knowledge on a subject.

[raferfenix]

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25?

Variable I'm looking out for is how Holiday responds to playing alongside Giannis + Middleton in Bud's system.

He played with AD but this team has a different tier of talent and drive to win. The Bucks badly need a steady floor general, and Holiday should see more wide open shots than he ever has before as well.

Jrue has an opportunity to take his game up a notch and build a legacy.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Listened to SImmons pod. There are a lot of topics to unpack from it. Will save some for later. Here were my two big takeaways.

They both like the Bogdan trade. Feel that he's a guy that is able to get some shots off when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. Much more so than the other guys the Bucks ran out there with Giannis in the past.

On Jrue, will try to cobble together what I think was a main theme. Shouldn't the superstar that wants help, be more cognizant that overpaying for help might be crazy damaging to the franchise, and prevent said superstar from getting help down the road. The question was posed: Wouldn't it be more important for the Bucks/Giannis success to have some of those assets to use in the next couple years, versus dumping everything on the table for Jrue Holiday.

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25? Would David Griffin have really hung up the phone if Horst said "I'm only doing one pick swap instead of two".

Those were fair observations we'll all struggle with in the years ahead.

Don't disagree with the theme on Giannis putting the poker to the fire and holding it to Bucks feet to make something big happen.

But, we do know at least one other team, Celtics/Ainge, were also offering 3 first round picks. I think that's a testament to his value and the expected impact for him to have. So, while I don't feel great about losing three first round picks and then also losing Donte, so Bucks could sign someone to replace Brogdon, who should not have been allowed to walk, I don't feel that bad about the 2025 and 2027 picks. As long as Giannis & Jrue stay obviously.

But, the Ringer article put it best that all the Bucks mistakes are what led them to this day of reckoning. The blown picks on Rashad, Thon, DJ, Jabari even. The picks traded for Vassquez. The failed Knight/MCW move and not getting the Lakers pick. Bucks new owners blew thru mistake after mistake during the entirety of Kidd's era and that has left an empty cupboard.

But, Horst has shown some real acumen so far this week in doing what needs to be done.

I have a feeling that Wes & Robin are returning on wink/wink deals and they already have a couple more guys lined up. Galinari would be the real coup. Not just getting him, but keeping him from Miami as well.

[JimmyTheKid]

Listened to SImmons pod. There are a lot of topics to unpack from it. Will save some for later. Here were my two big takeaways.

They both like the Bogdan trade. Feel that he's a guy that is able to get some shots off when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. Much more so than the other guys the Bucks ran out there with Giannis in the past.

On Jrue, will try to cobble together what I think was a main theme. Shouldn't the superstar that wants help, be more cognizant that overpaying for help might be crazy damaging to the franchise, and prevent said superstar from getting help down the road. The question was posed: Wouldn't it be more important for the Bucks/Giannis success to have some of those assets to use in the next couple years, versus dumping everything on the table for Jrue Holiday.

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25? Would David Griffin have really hung up the phone if Horst said "I'm only doing one pick swap instead of two".

Those were fair observations we'll all struggle with in the years ahead.

Don't disagree with the theme on Giannis putting the poker to the fire and holding it to Bucks feet to make something big happen.

But, we do know at least one other team, Celtics/Ainge, were also offering 3 first round picks. I think that's a testament to his value and the expected impact for him to have. So, while I don't feel great about losing three first round picks and then also losing Donte, so Bucks could sign someone to replace Brogdon, who should not have been allowed to walk, I don't feel that bad about the 2025 and 2027 picks. As long as Giannis & Jrue stay obviously.

But, the Ringer article put it best that all the Bucks mistakes are what led them to this day of reckoning. The blown picks on Rashad, Thon, DJ, Jabari even. The picks traded for Vassquez. The failed Knight/MCW move and not getting the Lakers pick. Bucks new owners blew thru mistake after mistake during the entirety of Kidd's era and that has left an empty cupboard.

But, Horst has shown some real acumen so far this week in doing what needs to be done.

I have a feeling that Wes & Robin are returning on wink/wink deals and they already have a couple more guys lined up. Galinari would be the real coup. Not just getting him, but keeping him from Miami as well.

Not only was there competition for Jrue, but by all accounts he was on Giannis' short list. If NOLA opts for a different deal, and Jrue ends up on another team, what is the backup plan? And is that backup plan sufficient enough to satisfy Giannis' demands? I'm guessing not. So, again, for me, all the criticisms of giving up too many assets are just noise if it was determined there was a real risk of Giannis potentially refusing to sign the supermax unless the roster was reshaped to his liking. If Jrue doesn't re-up and Giannis doesn't sign the supermax, ok, criticize away. Its obviously more than fair at that point. But all of these things are connected. And all signs point these guys being in Milwaukee for championship runs the next 5 years.

[Siefer]

And they were clear that the level of player you got in return is a key factor in the analysis. i.e. Yes, you'd pour those assets out for AD, but is Jrue a top 15 player? Top 25?

I think relative to precedent, there's no doubt the Bucks overpaid, but I also suspect it was the right move in context - both can be true. When I was tinkering with Jrue trades a couple of months ago, I thought we might move the 24th, and a future protected first in addition to Bled+. The "superstar haul" stuff is a off-target, because the Pels aren't getting a young Ingram type in addition to the picks, but yeah, 24, two unprotected firsts, and two pick-swaps is still a hefty price. And FWIW, I have Jrue in my top 25, a bit below, but on the same tier as Midds.

[GoldenAntlers]

Yes, have protections just in case Giannis gets hurt or the whole supporting cast gets old and useless at the same time. Then just hope you're good for 5 years and the protections don't kick in so it's just picks in the 20's in 2023 and 2025. That's the best-case scenario. I am still supremely worried about that '25 pick though. Personally I think Bledsoe, Hill, and #24 should have been enough. The news that there was a bidding war supports my initial reaction that this was a very steep price.

lol, now we can worry. This has Darko on steroids written all over it. Like I'm glad I will be also 40 at that point and can shrug it off as 'we had a good run', but there good be a very dark period in the late 2020's

Anyone who is worried about a few years of no first rounder (yes even potentially a high lottery pick) needs to look back at 30 years of 8th seed or bust.

Exactly. The Bucks screwed up so many first round picks anyway. Yes, it's an overpay. No, I don't want to read you crying about it for 20 pages right now.

[raferfenix]

2021 and 2023 we currently hold our first, with Cleveland getting our pick in 2022, if I understand correctly.

We've got to nail all our assets to prepare for the 4 year period 2024-2027 where we won't control our pick (unprotected or pick swaps) so no use tanking.

[coolhandluke121]

lol, now we can worry. This has Darko on steroids written all over it. Like I'm glad I will be also 40 at that point and can shrug it off as 'we had a good run', but there good be a very dark period in the late 2020's

Anyone who is worried about a few years of no first rounder (yes even potentially a high lottery pick) needs to look back at 30 years of 8th seed or bust.

Exactly. The Bucks screwed up so many first round picks anyway. Yes, it's an overpay. No, I don't want to read you crying about it for 20 pages right now.

Ridiculous false dilemma. This is not an 8th seed or bust team anyway. This is not justification for getting completely raped in a trade for a 30-year-old one-time all-star who made the ASG playing in of the East's worst years for talent. Mortgaging the future is exactly what makes you a perpetual 8th-seed or bust team in the first place. This is a desperate move.

If you don't want to read 20 pages of it, then don't. I don't particularly want to read 20 pages of short-sighted justifications for such a mind-boggling bad value trade either. This is worse than the Nets trading for KG and Pierce. It's an unconscionably high price.

[WimpyDeer]

I'm not a regular Simmons listener these days, but I tuned in to the conversation on the Bucks, and almost turned the pod off because I was again reminded of how obnoxious I find Russillo. Simmons at least has the good sense to suggest he's self-aware of his shoot from the hips takes, but Russillo just subs in aggressive and confident declarations equal in proportion to his lack of actual knowledge on a subject.

As someone who listened to the podcast and thought Russillo made a lot of good points, do you care to provide an example of what you're talking about?

[GoldenAntlers]

Anyone who is worried about a few years of no first rounder (yes even potentially a high lottery pick) needs to look back at 30 years of 8th seed or bust.

Exactly. The Bucks screwed up so many first round picks anyway. Yes, it's an overpay. No, I don't want to read you crying about it for 20 pages right now.

Ridiculous false dilemma. This is not an 8th seed or bust team anyway. This is not justification for getting completely raped in a trade for a 30-year-old one-time all-star who made the ASG playing in of the East's worst years for talent. Mortgaging the future is exactly what makes you a perpetual 8th-seed or bust team in the first place. This is a desperate move.

If you don't want to read 20 pages of it, then don't. I don't particularly want to read 20 pages of short-sighted justifications for such a mind-boggling bad value trade either. This is worse than the Nets trading for KG and Pierce. It's an unconscionably high price.

What would you have done then? I'm not being flippant either, as you usually have a plan.

The way I see it, either this deal goes through or Giannis walks.

[JimmyTheKid]

Anyone who is worried about a few years of no first rounder (yes even potentially a high lottery pick) needs to look back at 30 years of 8th seed or bust.

Exactly. The Bucks screwed up so many first round picks anyway. Yes, it's an overpay. No, I don't want to read you crying about it for 20 pages right now.

Ridiculous false dilemma. This is not an 8th seed or bust team anyway. This is not justification for getting completely raped in a trade for a 30-year-old one-time all-star who made the ASG playing in of the East's worst years for talent. Mortgaging the future is exactly what makes you a perpetual 8th-seed or bust team in the first place. This is a desperate move.

If you don't want to read 20 pages of it, then don't. I don't particularly want to read 20 pages of short-sighted justifications for such a mind-boggling bad value trade either. This is worse than the Nets trading for KG and Pierce. It's an unconscionably high price.

Do you have an example of a "short-sighted justification" you've seen so far regarding this deal? Because it looks pretty straightforward to me, from why the Bucks had to give up what they did, to how the move impacts the roster, both short-term and long-term. If anything, the justifications for hating it are short-sighted. "Ahhhh picks!!!" "Jrue only made one All-Star team!!!"

[HKPackFan]

The trade is all about needing better play in the playoffs and better offense in the half court.


We might lose a few extra regular season games with a light bench, but you guys can't forget how painful this offense was to watch in the playoffs right?

How many times did it look like getting a bucket in a critical game seemed absolutely impossible?

So much clanking of iron, guys afraid to shoot, Bledsoe rushing and turning the ball over, or unable to even get a damn layup. Giannis trapped in a wall getting a turnover or a charge or a perfect wide-open dish to see nothing but iron on 3ptr.


This is all about the playoffs and half court and guys who can create and guys who can catch and shoot.

Jrue goes beast mode in the playoffs, can create his own shot, can work the half court, and can hit the big clutch shot in crunch time.

Bogi we've seen in Europe is a winner in the post season, again can get his own shot, work half court, and Loves the last shot of the game. Dude has ice in his veins. And his catch and shoot numbers are fantastic.

These guys 100% fit what we need in the post season. They have the potential to erase those horrific memories of not being able to score a bucket for like 5 goddamn minutes straight in these previous playoff games.

Giannis hits a wall and cant do anything. Bledsoe becomes so painfully bad you wonder if he's had some freaky Friday incident with a fan, midds gets streaky, Lopez, DDV, patty c, etc. all clank, clank, clank. Bricks all day. No movement, no offense, no creativity. Just Giannis hits a wall and someone shoots a brick.

Now we have TWO guys that have history of upping their game in big moments, can create, can dish, and can catch and shoot.

This appears to be a fantastic solution for a problem we have painfully watched these past 2 post seasons.

[Siefer]

I'm not a regular Simmons listener these days, but I tuned in to the conversation on the Bucks, and almost turned the pod off because I was again reminded of how obnoxious I find Russillo. Simmons at least has the good sense to suggest he's self-aware of his shoot from the hips takes, but Russillo just subs in aggressive and confident declarations equal in proportion to his lack of actual knowledge on a subject.

As someone who listened to the podcast and thought Russillo made a lot of good points, do you care to provide an example of what you're talking about?

Well, I think his super power is sounding like he's making good points (and to be fair sometimes he does), regardless of whether or not the content of his words is actually worthwhile. But sure, it's crap like this:

"Would David Griffin have really hung up the phone if Horst said "I'm only doing one pick swap instead of two"

We have reports of what Boston offered (Hayward and three 1sts), and know multiple teams were competing for Jrue's services, but yeah, ol' Horsty never considered just saying "hey let's knock off a pick swap."

[theFireBlanket]

With Giannis extending those pick swaps will be nada. Two unprotected firsts that will be late 1st rounders as well.

Small potatoes. To contend, what must be done must be done. It's not like they did this to get on the treadmill, Jrue isn't aged like KG/Pierce. Not comparable, though it's been thrown around as if it is.

Boston offered all of their 2020 1sts. Bucks had to leverage with future picks & oust Ainge from stealing Jrue. Horst did pretty f###+-& good.