2020 Draft - Part II

[WizarDynasty]

Maybe you mark the time in the video where he shows great defensive hip bend. I didn't see it. He strikes me as possibly kevin Garnett if he had a quick first step with his length lack of weight but I don't see the quickness in his feet or the hip bend. Or explosiveness second jumps on rebounds. AGain, put a link the video and tell us the time in the video where you see evidence that he can maintain a deep hip bend for a long period of time offensve and defense? I will check it out.

Obsession with hip bend, so youre looking for In the NBA its basically jimmy butler and.......tony allen? Not Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Gasol, LeBron, Curry, Durant, AD, Kyrie, Harden etc. Stars don't bend their hips for extended periods of time. Hip fluidity is more important.

You give Poku a long look because he flings the ball around like a pick up game but still averages 4 assists and positive AST/TO ratio.

Meh, there's plenty of 18 year old 7'2 guys who can run the ball up court, stop on a dime, and make a perfect behind the back bounce pass setting up a teammate for a layup.

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

[Ruzious]

Wiseman seems a lot more skilled offensively than both Drummond and Mitch - while being a bit less athletic - much like Ayton is a bit less athletic. Defensively, he has the kinds of troubles Drummond has 1 on 1. Drummond was/is an absurd athlete for a guy as heavy as he was/is - but really was not much of a basketball player at UConn.

I think Ayton's a little more powerful than Wiseman, but Wiseman's a little quicker.

[WizarDynasty]

Wiseman seems a lot more skilled offensively than both Drummond and Mitch - while being a bit less athletic - much like Ayton is a bit less athletic. Defensively, he has the kinds of troubles Drummond has 1 on 1. Drummond was/is an absurd athlete for a guy as heavy as he was/is - but really was not much of a basketball player at UConn.

I think Ayton's a little more powerful than Wiseman, but Wiseman's a little quicker.

Wiseman is not explosive. that is his biggest problem. He needs alot of load time to get off the ground. He is not quick twitch, and takes him a long time to get off the ground. He also doesn't have coordinated arms and hands. You never see him palm the ball and shoot sky hooks like a kareem Abdul Jabbar. I never see him yank the ball out of the sky with one hand or receive passes with one hand above his head. He seems to always need to hands in order gather the ball. I question the size of his hands. At 7'2 he should be moving that ball around with one hand like a grape. Maybe he has poor grip strength in one hand. Either way, i would look at the measurements. Reminds of how Jahidi White use to have very small hands.

[Ruzious]

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

See post # 279 in this thread. What's the first sentence?

[WizarDynasty]

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

See post # 279 in this thread. What's the first sentence?

Did i mention in that statement deep hip bend? i should have mentioned andrei Kirilenko. Forgot so i fixed it.
We need a Andrei Kirilenko for this team, and maybe a speed point guard who can lock down fast point guards, and allow John to cover shooting guards.

Man i loved Kirilenko. He was a bad bad boy!!!

Watch on YouTube

If only we had a player like that on the roster. -9'2 standing reach small forward. The wizard's would fun to watch every night. Grunfeld was praying that Vesely had kirilenko in him.

Looked at the draft and had a chance to scout Kira Lewis. I like hte idea of having kira, wall, and beal on the floor. Letting Beal guard small forward for a time is good and allows him to use his strength. Wall is much better guard shooting guards and letting Kira chase point guards around screens would be very effective for us. Also Kira standing reach is 8'5, that is extremely impressive. He might be a better fit if Achiuwa is snatched before are pick.
I don't believe in Wing Defender that doesn't have elite length which is over or close 9'0. Anything over 9'0 is worthy of lottery as I have explained in the past posts. Achiuwa, and if he is gone, let's get Kira Lewis.

that eliminates Okoro and Vassell who will be busts in Washington's System because has 9'0+ length to give wings a cushion and still guard against the three.

Achiuwa ( rim protection and rebounder, elite perimeter defense and Payton Pritchard (this dude is awesome) is a really really good draft. Buying an early second rounder would be even better.

[Shoe]

Obsession with hip bend, so youre looking for In the NBA its basically jimmy butler and.......tony allen? Not Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Gasol, LeBron, Curry, Durant, AD, Kyrie, Harden etc. Stars don't bend their hips for extended periods of time. Hip fluidity is more important.

You give Poku a long look because he flings the ball around like a pick up game but still averages 4 assists and positive AST/TO ratio.

Meh, there's plenty of 18 year old 7'2 guys who can run the ball up court, stop on a dime, and make a perfect behind the back bounce pass setting up a teammate for a layup.

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

I don't think deep hip bend is the kinesiological silver bullet of scouting. If Poku passes like this in the NBA he's in exclusive Jokic / Bam territory.

[WizarDynasty]

Meh, there's plenty of 18 year old 7'2 guys who can run the ball up court, stop on a dime, and make a perfect behind the back bounce pass setting up a teammate for a layup.

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

I don't think deep hip bend is the kinesiological silver bullet of scouting. If Poku passes like this in the NBA he's in exclusive Jokic / Bam territory.

JOkic and Bam weighed 30 lbs more than this kid at the same age. He has the game of a small forward, not a post player. The only thing that would have made him elite is to have speed and quickness. He has speed but he doesn't have the hip bend to control his speed. Jokic isn't great because of his passing, he is great because he is dominant in the post one and one, and if you double him, he is going to make you pay with his IQ. He is also the best perimeter shooter on his team so he is floor spacer and point guard at the same time. Double dose inside and outside game. It would be nice if jokic where explosive and could shot block but you can't get everything.
Poku has slim frame, and he can't drop his gravity and get leverage power against smaller defenders based on what i see in the vids. He isn't explosive so he can't just spring over and use one handed release for unguardable shots like kevin garnett. He can do a behind the back pass, but is he breaking down the defense in a half court setting and opening up his team mates for easy shots? that's what jokic does. keyword...half court...not fast break. I don't see Poku as point forward pushing the ball down the court which is what the video shows.

[Wizardspride]

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[FAH1223]

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Its #SoWizards that he's hurt so of course they take him

[Ed Wood]

If that late-breaking news results in his being available at 9 when he wouldn't otherwise have been (not that we'll know that) then it's fortunate for the team.

[Ruzious]

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I think there was some chance that he'd be picked at 3 by Charlotte or perhaps even at 2 by GS, and that probably crushes those chances. It probably hurts the chances of him going 6th - probably doesn't stop the Wiz from picking him if you believe Tommy's comments about thinking long-term. This sounds like he misses maybe a month of the season - nothing like Embiid's injury.

[Dat2U]

Ok here's my final rankings

Tier 1 - None

Tier 2

G LaMelo Ball

Tier 3

G Tyrese Haliburton
G Killian Hayes
C Onyeka Okongwu
C James Wiseman

Tier 4
F Aaron Nesmith
G R.J. Hampton
G Anthony Edwards
C Precious Achiuwa
F Alexsej Pokusevski
F Obi Toppin
F Saddiq Bey
F Patrick Williams

Tier 5
G Malachi Flynn
F Issac Okoro
F Deni Avdija
C Xavier Tillman
G Josh Green
G Cassius Stanley
G Desmond Bane
G Leandro Bolmaro
G Kira Lewis Jr
G Tyrese Maxey

Tier 6
G Payton Pritchard
G Tyrell Terry
F Jaden McDaniels
C Vernon Carey Jr
C Isaiah Stewart
G Cassius Winston
F Tyler Bey
F Devin Vassell
G Theo Maledon
G Tre Jones
G Cole Anthony
C Daniel Oturu
G Devon Dotson
F Paul Reed
C Jalen Smith
F Robert Woodard II

Tier 7
G Markus Howard
F Jordan Nwora
G Nico Mannion
G Jahmi'us Ramsey
G Mason Jones
F Josh Hall
G Grant Riller
F Elijah Hughes
G Immanuel Quickley
G Sam Merrill
C Udoka Azubuike
G Nate Hinton
C Killian Tillie
C Zeke Nnaji
C Reggie Perry
G Isaiah Joe
G Skylar Mays
F Kenyon Martin Jr
C Nathan Knight
F Paul Eboua
G Abdoulaye N'Doye
G Yam Madar
C Marko Simonovic
F Borisa Simanic
G Jay Scrubb
G Justinian Jessup

[NatP4]

Ok here's my final rankings

Tier 1 - None

Tier 2

G LaMelo Ball

Tier 3

G Tyrese Haliburton
G Killian Hayes
C Onyeka Okongwu
C James Wiseman

Tier 4
F Aaron Nesmith
G R.J. Hampton
G Anthony Edwards
C Precious Achiuwa
F Alexsej Pokusevski
F Obi Toppin
F Saddiq Bey
F Patrick Williams

Tier 5
G Malachi Flynn
F Deni Avdija
C Xavier Tillman
G Josh Green
G Cassius Stanley
G Desmond Bane
G Leandro Bolmaro
G Kira Lewis Jr
G Tyrese Maxey

Tier 6
G Payton Pritchard
G Tyrell Terry
F Jaden McDaniels
C Vernon Carey Jr
C Isaiah Stewart
G Cassius Winston
F Tyler Bey
F Devin Vassell
G Theo Maledon
G Tre Jones
G Cole Anthony
C Daniel Oturu
G Devon Dotson
F Paul Reed
C Jalen Smith
F Robert Woodard II

Tier 7
G Markus Howard
F Jordan Nwora
G Nico Mannion
G Jahmi'us Ramsey
G Mason Jones
F Josh Hall
G Grant Riller
F Elijah Hughes
G Immanuel Quickley
G Sam Merrill
C Udoka Azubuike
G Nate Hinton
C Killian Tillie
C Zeke Nnaji
C Reggie Perry
G Isaiah Joe
G Skylar Mays
F Kenyon Martin Jr
C Nathan Knight
F Paul Eboua
G Abdoulaye N'Doye
G Yam Madar
C Marko Simonovic
F Borisa Simanic
G Jay Scrubb
G Justinian Jessup

So Dat, are you anticipating that one of the tier 3 players will be there at 9 for us?

[Dat2U]

I vote for either Okongwu, Hayes, Haliburton at 9 or a trade down to draft either Nesmith, Hampton or Achiuwa.

[NatP4]

Are there any reports about who the wiz might be leaning towards at 9? I haven’t been following the team for awhile now. Any info would be appreciated.

From watching a few highlights, I love Okongwu, Haliburton, Hayes, and Okoro.

[WizarDynasty]

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I think there was some chance that he'd be picked at 3 by Charlotte or perhaps even at 2 by GS, and that probably crushes those chances. It probably hurts the chances of him going 6th - probably doesn't stop the Wiz from picking him if you believe Tommy's comments about thinking long-term. This sounds like he misses maybe a month of the season - nothing like Embiid's injury.

To have a foot injury at such a young age. This guy's whole game is based on how much pressure he exerts on the ground with his feet, but I could tell by the way that he moved that something seemed wrong with drop his center of gravity with his hip bends and then maintain it.
He uses his feet to absord his landing force instead doing deep hip bends when landing from dunks. Wear and Tear.
They have known about that foot injury for a long time.

Media has been hyping Okongwu for a long time, but he is an undersized center, doesn't have elite ball handling skills, does open up the paint for slasher with three point shooting. And he doesn't have elite length 8'10 standing reach where we need a center with a 9'4 standing reach.
Why wait until draft day to reveal you have a foot injury?
I have been saying from day one, that he is getting hyped up by media. I still have yet to see an official measurement for his standing reach which will really tell the truth about why his stock his falling?

[bsilver]

Wiseman strikes me as the only guy in this draft that has that blue chip franchise potential out of this draft class.

I think it's absurd that the Timberwolves are struggling to make a decision here. Sure, they've got towns, but he's a classic tweener.

Instead of worrying about where the league is heading with respect to big men, why not buck the trend and ask teams to contend with their version of the twin towers instead?

All of that talk about the Warriors wanting to trade out of that spot strikes me as misdirection.

They're just hoping the Timberwolves are dumb enough to let the best prospect in the draft slip to the 2nd spot.

I agree. It makes no sense to get the 2nd or 3rd best pick when you can get the best. Unfortunately Wiseman doesn’t want to be a Twolf, refusing a workout. If things can’t be resolved, then don’t pick Ball or whoever. Just trade down a few spots to a desperate team like Chicago and get their pick plus significant assets.

[Shoe]

That's not a deep hip bend, sorry. Now if he was in an offensive threat position stopping full speed, with a deep hip, then I would give you credit. He only ways 211 which is the weight of an nba shooting guarding or even point guard. He is clearly upright, hips not deeply bent, --"and you can clearly see that when he does dip his hips even slightly he can't really maintain it for any period of time, he immediately returns to an upright position. When he passes, it's more like a bail out pass because he is no position to score when he passes it. alot of times we like to see things that just aren't there. Maybe you have some other examples?

I don't think deep hip bend is the kinesiological silver bullet of scouting. If Poku passes like this in the NBA he's in exclusive Jokic / Bam territory.

but is he breaking down the defense in a half court setting and opening up his team mates for easy shots? that's what jokic does. keyword...half court...not fast break. I don't see Poku as point forward pushing the ball down the court which is what the video shows.

Did you watch the video my man? Hes passing from the baseline, elbow, top of the key, cross court, with his back to the basket. And yeah he's not guaranteed to be good and has zero chance to be as good as Jokic. He does though have a height/passing ability comparable to Bam and Jokic.

Don't you compare Achiuwa to Scottie Pippen??? Achiuwa is an energy 4, a screen roller. Pippen as a wing in his early twenties =

[WizarDynasty]

Wiseman strikes me as the only guy in this draft that has that blue chip franchise potential out of this draft class.

I think it's absurd that the Timberwolves are struggling to make a decision here. Sure, they've got towns, but he's a classic tweener.

Instead of worrying about where the league is heading with respect to big men, why not buck the trend and ask teams to contend with their version of the twin towers instead?

All of that talk about the Warriors wanting to trade out of that spot strikes me as misdirection.

They're just hoping the Timberwolves are dumb enough to let the best prospect in the draft slip to the 2nd spot.

I agree. It makes no sense to get the 2nd or 3rd best pick when you can get the best. Unfortunately Wiseman doesn’t want to be a Twolf, refusing a workout. If things can’t be resolved, then don’t pick Ball or whoever. Just trade down a few spots to a desperate team like Chicago and get their pick plus significant assets.

Towns wants shoot threes, Wiseman wants to shoot threes. They are really the similar players but they would actually make each other better in practice. That's the weird part about it. They are actually what each needs to develop. Crazy but true.

[WizarDynasty]

I don't think deep hip bend is the kinesiological silver bullet of scouting. If Poku passes like this in the NBA he's in exclusive Jokic / Bam territory.

but is he breaking down the defense in a half court setting and opening up his team mates for easy shots? that's what jokic does. keyword...half court...not fast break. I don't see Poku as point forward pushing the ball down the court which is what the video shows.

Did you watch the video my man? Hes passing from the baseline, elbow, top of the key, cross court, with his back to the basket. And yeah he's not guaranteed to be good and has zero chance to be as good as Jokic. He does though have a height/passing ability comparable to Bam and Jokic.

Don't you compare Achiuwa to Scottie Pippen??? Achiuwa is an energy 4, a screen roller. Pippen as a wing in his early twenties =

Secondly you have showing a clip after being in the league for 2 years under coaching, not his 1st year at arkansas.

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Wow I definitely see alot of Scotty in Achiuwa to be honest after looking at this clip. But Achiuwa also has screen roller ability as 4. Let's hope no savy GM like San Antonio leap frons us like they did with K. Leonard before the singleton pick. Can't make the same mistake twice.
Rui and AChiuwa are nice deadly unstoppable combo that league will fear. That is a fearsome duo. Wall, Beal, Rui, and Achiuwa...matching up with that every night and get run out of the building with fast pace and energy. It's going to be a really fun times in Washington.
As i said before, you don't pass on Pippen...and yes he definitely has screen and roll potential as 4 also. AGain, let's just make sure that Beal and Wall and have done psychological assessments of the kid before we draft.

Again you have to look at college footage of Pippen, not refined NBA footage after being in the league for 2 years and playing with MIke.