Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[LUKE23]

A move from Bled had to be made this offseason to 100% lock in Giannis, IMO. He was always the guy they were talking about. We can definitely debate the assets given up for Jrue, but I don't think "wait it out" was a legitimate option. Moves needed to be made this offseason.

[Ruben Quevedo]

There is literally no argument to be made that this team isn’t far better suited for the playoffs, especially in terms of being tougher to guard on offense. JRue is 10% better on catch and shoot 3s and 15% better on corner 3s than Bled, and Bogdan is a near Middleton level shooter who also can maneuver to get shots off the bounce, which Wes was incapable of. The upgrade offensively from Bled/Wes to Jrue/Bogdan cannot be overstated.

Oh, and we still have two top 5 defenders in the entire league and another who is probably top 10. This starting five is nasty.

The starting 5 is unquestionably better. But games are still 48 minutes, and strong teams have been sunk by terrible benches before. How we fill out the roster now is crucial.

[jschligs]

Ridiculous false dilemma. This is not an 8th seed or bust team anyway. This is not justification for getting completely raped in a trade for a 30-year-old one-time all-star who made the ASG playing in of the East's worst years for talent. Mortgaging the future is exactly what makes you a perpetual 8th-seed or bust team in the first place. This is a desperate move.

If you don't want to read 20 pages of it, then don't. I don't particularly want to read 20 pages of short-sighted justifications for such a mind-boggling bad value trade either. This is worse than the Nets trading for KG and Pierce. It's an unconscionably high price.

What would you have done then? I'm not being flippant either, as you usually have a plan.

The way I see it, either this deal goes through or Giannis walks.

If that is true, sure. But no one knows how attached he is to Holiday. You do the Bogdan trade - i don't think anyone disagrees. Then you pass on Holiday. You have Bledsoe, Hill, and 3 draft picks to work with. I think we could've done better than Holiday (at least long-term)

XXX/
Bogdan/
Midds/
Giannis/
Brook/

Who would be a better option that was realistic outside of Jrue?

[BucksRule18]

The Nets trade comparison is ridiculous. Did the Nets have the best player in the league when they made that deal? Garnett and Pierce were like 37 & 35. You could see trouble a mile away on that deal.

Edit: I see this was already covered.

They also had Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and Brook Lopez in their primes and were a good team without KG and Pierce. Most people thought they would be good for a while and the picks wouldn't be that great. That's where the comparison comes in, the short-sightedness of that sort of rationalization. The Bucks should have a longer window than those Nets did, but the picks are even further out. The trade that was justified to help keep Giannis only make it more likely that he forces his way out eventually when the supporting cast ages and they have no means of rebuilding. Preventing the normal contend-rebuild cycle is hard enough even when you don't trade picks like this, let alone when you do. The Spurs never had to do crap like this to stay great for so long. Resisting the urge to make terrible deals is precisely what kept them on top.

I definitely understand your point, but just feel like Bucks management was put in a tough spot to get Holiday at all cost or Giannis would not sign an extension. Not sure what's going on behind closed doors, but Giannis seems to have transitioned from let's keep all my friends (Snell, MCW, etc.) on the team to I've got loyalty in my blood to if you don't blow this up right this second I will decide to become an unrestricted free agent next year. This is probably not what happened, but can imagine the front office scrambling to do anything possible to get Giannis to sign the extension.

[tski1972]

The ‘25 and ‘27 picks needed some kind of protection on them, especially the ‘27. This is the main contention I have with this trade.

[GoldenAntlers]

I find it hilarious guys like Skip Bayless don't think the Bucks "moved the needle" with these trades. The "Giannis needs a co-star" narrative is ignoring the fact that the Bucks have Giannis as the first option and Jrue/Middle/Bogdanovic as a 2a, 2b, and 2c, option. And if that doesn't work, let Brook go to work inside. These dudes must make commission on trying to talk Giannis out of MKE.

[tydett]

I'd assume games will mostly look like the starters, with Giannis and possibly Bogdan hitting the bench around 8 minutes. Bring them back in around 3-4 minutes and then sub out the other guys, and stagger them a lot. Anecdotally, it feels like we needed a really good bench because non-Giannis, non-Middleton units were... weak. Now, you have 5 legit basket-getters and you probably don't need as versatile as a bench. Still need guys who can play (high motor helps!) but you don't need your 9/10 guys to be as good as your 5/6.

[GoldenAntlers]

I feel like people are ignoring the fact that players will want to play with Giannis to win a championship for the next 5 years and it might not be as hard to fill out the roster in the future as some of you are suggesting.

[Bucks4Milwaukee]

What would you have done then? I'm not being flippant either, as you usually have a plan.

The way I see it, either this deal goes through or Giannis walks.

If that is true, sure. But no one knows how attached he is to Holiday. You do the Bogdan trade - i don't think anyone disagrees. Then you pass on Holiday. You have Bledsoe, Hill, and 3 draft picks to work with. I think we could've done better than Holiday (at least long-term)

XXX/
Bogdan/
Midds/
Giannis/
Brook/

Who would be a better option that was realistic outside of Jrue?

Is Dame attainable for this offer?

[mke_design]

I’m just excited

[GoldenAntlers]

If that is true, sure. But no one knows how attached he is to Holiday. You do the Bogdan trade - i don't think anyone disagrees. Then you pass on Holiday. You have Bledsoe, Hill, and 3 draft picks to work with. I think we could've done better than Holiday (at least long-term)

XXX/
Bogdan/
Midds/
Giannis/
Brook/

Who would be a better option that was realistic outside of Jrue?

Is Dame attainable for this offer?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no.

[raferfenix]

Multiple things can be true:

1. If Giannis extends long term due to the Holiday trade it, it's worth it, whatever the cost (like the Clippers Kawhi maneuvers).

2. Giannis might demand a trade early (or leave once his deal is done) due to the repercussions of this move.

Now the Bucks do have a few seasons to acquire and develop talent to prepare for the period when the unprotected firsts come into play alongside our core aging.

It won't be worth tanking for those 4 drafts 2024-2027 but we certainly can make savvy signings, be smart with the MLE, and commit to developing any young players in our orbit.

[glenn]

Don’t understand why people always assume that Lillard is available. Has Portland ever signaled that they want to move on? You don’t trade two picks for Covington if you do.

[drdrG]

I feel like people are ignoring the fact that players will want to play with Giannis to win a championship for the next 5 years and it might not be as hard to fill out the roster in the future as some of you are suggesting.

Add in that Jrue Holiday is highly regarded by other players around the league. I think he's also going to help with recruiting.

[coolhandluke121]

A move from Bled had to be made this offseason to 100% lock in Giannis, IMO. He was always the guy they were talking about. We can definitely debate the assets given up for Jrue, but I don't think "wait it out" was a legitimate option. Moves needed to be made this offseason.

How would we know something like this? They've had the best regular season record two years in a row. The playoffs have been the issue. It's possible, but I find it hard to believe they had to get the best player available right now no matter what the cost. All we can evaluate is what assets they gave up and what you should normally have to give up for a player of Jrue's caliber. I can happily acknowledge that should be willing to overpay a little to chase a ring, but this is egregious. I'm honestly not convinced Harden will fetch a significantly better package. I honestly think the Bucks should have been able to trade this package to the Rockets in a 3-team deal and get Lavert AND Dinwiddie for what they gave up.

[buckboy]

The Nets trade comparison is ridiculous. Did the Nets have the best player in the league when they made that deal? Garnett and Pierce were like 37 & 35. You could see trouble a mile away on that deal.

Edit: I see this was already covered.

They also had Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and Brook Lopez in their primes and were a good team without KG and Pierce. Most people thought they would be good for a while and the picks wouldn't be that great. That's where the comparison comes in, the short-sightedness of that sort of rationalization. The Bucks should have a longer window than those Nets did, but the picks are even further out. The trade that was justified to help keep Giannis only make it more likely that he forces his way out eventually when the supporting cast ages and they have no means of rebuilding. Preventing the normal contend-rebuild cycle is hard enough even when you don't trade picks like this, let alone when you do. The Spurs never had to do crap like this to stay great for so long. Resisting the urge to make terrible deals is precisely what kept them on top.

Yeah, I don't really agree at all. There was huuuge risk for the Nets compared to the Bucks in this scenario. I will agree with you on one thing though, I really don't like that '27 pick unprotected. That's a big deal to me too.

[Thunder Muscle]

Are there protections on the pick swaps do we think, or are those unprotected too?

If not then tanking is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

Read on Twitter

BAHAHAHAHA. no more tank gifs on post game threads for at least 7years.

I remember not too long ago after a while to Google and find a unique tank gif was getting more and more challenging.

Did we get any picks besides #60 tonight? Honestly I don't think I have another rebuild in me. If Giannis bolts and/or this crumbles with no picks in the 2020s, I may shift from diehard to casual, haha

[DingleJerry]

How is Giannis and Jrue being FAs at the end this year not a huge risk as well? Just like how the guys were old for BKN was a huge risk. Sure I don't think it's happening and I expect they must have some kind of agreements in place with both. But as jabronis on the internet we definitely don't "know" any of that, therefore it's a big risk.

[buckboy]

Random fun fact: Bucks starting five averaged 114.8 points per 36 last year.

and 130% usage? (just guessing).

129.3. I was close.

[LUKE23]

Yep, just added it up:

Giannis: .375
Middleton: .264
Holiday: .245
Bogdan: .226
Lopez: .183