Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[mke_design]

How is Giannis and Jrue being FAs at the end this year not a huge risk as well? Just like how the guys were old for BKN was a huge risk. Sure I don't think it's happening and I expect they must have some kind of agreements in place with both. But as jabronis on the internet we definitely don't "know" any of that, therefore it's a big risk.

Smart people are believing that there is already an agreement so everyone has their panties in a bunch because we cant find out till friday whats happening. It's screaming at clouds.

[buckboy]

How is Giannis and Jrue being FAs at the end this year not a huge risk as well? Just like how the guys were old for BKN was a huge risk. Sure I don't think it's happening and I expect they must have some kind of agreements in place with both. But as jabronis on the internet we definitely don't "know" any of that, therefore it's a big risk.

You work with the information you have. You can interpret that information your way, but I'll interpret these moves assuming that Giannis and J'rue sign extensions. Logic dictates it. I may be wrong, but I highly, highly doubt it.

[LUKE23]

We will see what package Harden gets, my guess is the players involved will FAR trump Bledsoe and Hill, and be significantly younger as well. As I've stated before, you cannot equate all firsts equal either. The second Giannis signs the swaps become meaningless (barring injury), and all of the firsts through the 26 draft become borderline early second rounders in terms of impact (barring injury). Now, an injury could always happen but unless it's Giannis and another starter I don't think we would even be lottery with this starting five. The 2027 unprotected pick is the one asset I have a major issue with, but the draft capital while Giannis is here is in very, very high likelihood going to be rendered not that valuable.

[DingleJerry]

How is Giannis and Jrue being FAs at the end this year not a huge risk as well? Just like how the guys were old for BKN was a huge risk. Sure I don't think it's happening and I expect they must have some kind of agreements in place with both. But as jabronis on the internet we definitely don't "know" any of that, therefore it's a big risk.

You work with the information you have. You can interpret that information your way, but I'll interpret these moves assuming that Giannis and J'rue sign extensions. Logic dictates it. I may be wrong, but I highly, highly doubt it.

The information we have is they're both FAs. Assuming the negative side can't/won't happen because it's your team is faulty. I assume the same as you do, but it is clearly an assumption. Acting as if it's not is just wrong and there is where the risk lies. There is a long list of logical things with stars in recent years that didn't happen.

There is a big gap between doing these moves to prove to Giannis we're serious along with better in the playoffs and that a handshake is done that once the trades were completed that he's on boards. There is a big leap between one and the other that idiots like us have no idea on.

[M-C-G]

Here is what I would say, if you are Giannis, a guy that doesn't seem to give a rip about stars, where would you go to that would give you a better supporting cast than Jrue, Bogdan, Middleton and Brook? With Jrue, Middleton goes from a 2 to a 3. With Bogdan, Brook goes from your 3 to your 5.

And we still have a MLE to use. Never mind that we have a good culture and likable team. There may be different options, but don't think there are better options.

[buckboy]

How is Giannis and Jrue being FAs at the end this year not a huge risk as well? Just like how the guys were old for BKN was a huge risk. Sure I don't think it's happening and I expect they must have some kind of agreements in place with both. But as jabronis on the internet we definitely don't "know" any of that, therefore it's a big risk.

You work with the information you have. You can interpret that information your way, but I'll interpret these moves assuming that Giannis and J'rue sign extensions. Logic dictates it. I may be wrong, but I highly, highly doubt it.

The information we have is they're both FAs. Assuming the negative side can't/won't happen because it's your team is faulty. I assume the same as you do, but it is clearly an assumption. Acting as if it's not is just wrong and there is where the risk lies. There is a long list of logical things with stars in recent years that didn't happen.

There is a big gap between doing these moves to prove to Giannis we're serious along with better in the playoffs and that a handshake is done that once the trades were completed that he's on boards. There is a big leap between one and the other that idiots like us have no idea on.

It's not faulty though. It's logical. We've seen this scenario any number of times across all sports. No one is acting as though it's not an assumption. I said as much in my post.

Completely disagree with your second paragraph, but as I said, to each their own. There is close to zero doubt in my mind that extensions are in place for both.

[raferfenix]

From an asset standpoint, AD yielded dramatically more valuable young talent than Jrue did by way of Ingram and Ball.

However another masterstroke for Griffin is that the Pelicans have SVG now, who I can easily see being way into Bledsoe and Hill.

Curious about the Lonzo - Bledsoe dynamic moving forward in particular.

[theFireBlanket]

A move from Bled had to be made this offseason to 100% lock in Giannis, IMO. He was always the guy they were talking about. We can definitely debate the assets given up for Jrue, but I don't think "wait it out" was a legitimate option. Moves needed to be made this offseason.

How would we know something like this? They've had the best regular season record two years in a row. The playoffs have been the issue. It's possible, but I find it hard to believe they had to get the best player available right now no matter what the cost. All we can evaluate is what assets they gave up and what you should normally have to give up for a player of Jrue's caliber. I can happily acknowledge that should be willing to overpay a little to chase a ring, but this is egregious. I'm honestly not convinced Harden will fetch a significantly better package. I honestly think the Bucks should have been able to trade this package to the Rockets in a 3-team deal and get Lavert AND Dinwiddie for what they gave up.

Why would the Bucks help Brooklyn get Harden? Or trade for their guards over Holiday? Heavy pass. And no Brooklyn isn't helping Milwaukee get Harden. Maybe Giannis specifically told FO no Harden to Milwaukee deals.

[TD75]

The Bucks with Bledsoe + Hill + picks are significantly worse compared to those Bucks with Jrue Holiday (assuming Jrue will soon be in a long term deal).

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That said I, of course, agree that the price the Bucks payed for Jrue was ridiculously high. Unfortunately this is what happens when you miss so badly on picks all those years and you are left with a team that has an obvious 2nd round in the East playoffs ceiling and a superstar in a contract that will soon expire. I don't believe that Giannis with Bledsoe would take the Bucks anywhere in postseason.

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

Now the Bucks have a fairly big postseason headache they need to resolve in Bud. Good luck with that.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

I don't think they did anything just to intentionally spite the Bucks. NO was smart enough to realize they had a bidding war on their hands and took advantage. I think the Celtics/Sixers genuinely wanted to acquire Jrue.

[WRau1]

BOS 100% wanted Holiday.

[TD75]

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

I don't think they did anything just to intentionally spite the Bucks. NO was smart enough to realize they had a bidding war on their hands and took advantage. I think the Celtics/Sixers genuinely wanted to acquire Jrue.

Oh I agree (they definitely wanted Jrue). I also believe they were happy to see what the Bucks had to give up at the end for Jrue though.

[coolhandluke121]

A move from Bled had to be made this offseason to 100% lock in Giannis, IMO. He was always the guy they were talking about. We can definitely debate the assets given up for Jrue, but I don't think "wait it out" was a legitimate option. Moves needed to be made this offseason.

How would we know something like this? They've had the best regular season record two years in a row. The playoffs have been the issue. It's possible, but I find it hard to believe they had to get the best player available right now no matter what the cost. All we can evaluate is what assets they gave up and what you should normally have to give up for a player of Jrue's caliber. I can happily acknowledge that should be willing to overpay a little to chase a ring, but this is egregious. I'm honestly not convinced Harden will fetch a significantly better package. I honestly think the Bucks should have been able to trade this package to the Rockets in a 3-team deal and get Lavert AND Dinwiddie for what they gave up.

Why would the Bucks help Brooklyn get Harden? Or trade for their guards over Holiday? Heavy pass. And no Brooklyn isn't helping Milwaukee get Harden. Maybe Giannis specifically told FO no Harden to Milwaukee deals.

Huh? The presumption is Brooklyn gets Harden for Dinwiddie, Lavert, and picks anyway, but the Rockets would rather have Bledsoe, Hill, and more picks from the Bucks than Dinwiddie and Lavert because they would start a long rebuilding process. If anything, it would be a question of why the Nets would help the Bucks, if you assume that Harden is going to be able to force his way to Brooklyn anyway (seems likely given how superstars get their way).

It has nothing to do with suggesting the Bucks trade for Harden! Good grief.

[coolhandluke121]

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That's how they got Brown and Tatum?

[mke_design]

How would we know something like this? They've had the best regular season record two years in a row. The playoffs have been the issue. It's possible, but I find it hard to believe they had to get the best player available right now no matter what the cost. All we can evaluate is what assets they gave up and what you should normally have to give up for a player of Jrue's caliber. I can happily acknowledge that should be willing to overpay a little to chase a ring, but this is egregious. I'm honestly not convinced Harden will fetch a significantly better package. I honestly think the Bucks should have been able to trade this package to the Rockets in a 3-team deal and get Lavert AND Dinwiddie for what they gave up.

Why would the Bucks help Brooklyn get Harden? Or trade for their guards over Holiday? Heavy pass. And no Brooklyn isn't helping Milwaukee get Harden. Maybe Giannis specifically told FO no Harden to Milwaukee deals.

Huh? The presumption is Brooklyn gets Harden for Dinwiddie, Lavert, and picks anyway, but the Rockets would rather have Bledsoe, Hill, and more picks from the Bucks than Dinwiddie and Lavert because they would start a long rebuilding process. If anything, it would be a question of why the Nets would help the Bucks, if you assume that Harden is going to be able to force his way to Brooklyn anyway (seems likely given how superstars get their way).

It has nothing to do with suggesting the Bucks trade for Harden! Good grief.

Don't light fire and complain about getting burned?

[slappyg]

I think part of the shock is that we are used to the packers not being willing to even trade a 3rd rounder for Randy Moss, still bothered by that one! Now we have the other end of the spectrum where the bucks go all in. A happy medium is nice but to win now it usually isnt an option. I'm excited to go for it.

[JimmyTheKid]

The Bucks with Bledsoe + Hill + picks are significantly worse compared to those Bucks with Jrue Holiday (assuming Jrue will soon be in a long term deal).

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That said I, of course, agree that the price the Bucks payed for Jrue was ridiculously high. Unfortunately this is what happens when you miss so badly on picks all those years and you are left with a team that has an obvious 2nd round in the East playoffs ceiling and a superstar in a contract that will soon expire. I don't believe that Giannis with Bledsoe would take the Bucks anywhere in postseason.

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

Now the Bucks have a fairly big postseason headache they need to resolve in Bud. Good luck with that.

Wait, this is actually a shared belief by more than one person? That Philly and Boston weren't actually interested in trading for Jrue Holiday to improve their own teams, only to drive up the price for the Bucks?

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

You work with the information you have. You can interpret that information your way, but I'll interpret these moves assuming that Giannis and J'rue sign extensions. Logic dictates it. I may be wrong, but I highly, highly doubt it.

The information we have is they're both FAs. Assuming the negative side can't/won't happen because it's your team is faulty. I assume the same as you do, but it is clearly an assumption. Acting as if it's not is just wrong and there is where the risk lies. There is a long list of logical things with stars in recent years that didn't happen.

There is a big gap between doing these moves to prove to Giannis we're serious along with better in the playoffs and that a handshake is done that once the trades were completed that he's on boards. There is a big leap between one and the other that idiots like us have no idea on.

It's not faulty though. It's logical. We've seen this scenario any number of times across all sports. No one is acting as though it's not an assumption. I said as much in my post.

Completely disagree with your second paragraph, but as I said, to each their own. There is close to zero doubt in my mind that extensions are in place for both.

The fault is to assume logic always matters in this stuff. There is countless examples to the contrary.

And to have zero doubt on something you have no idea on is inherently faulty. Don't get me wrong, I assume the same as you. but I acknowledge it's an assumption and with that comes the risk. You on the other hand are just acting like it doesn't exist.

[LUKE23]

Brown and Tatum were both #3 overall picks. So yes, if the Bucks end up moving a pick of that caliber to NOH, they will be shredded by the fans.

[TD75]

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That's how they got Brown and Tatum?

I was referring after that, when they had the opportunity to get AD. Of course I am not implying that draft picks are not important. Their importance though is not fixed. It varies. It depends on how you use them and how valuable are for the franchise.

Those Celtics picks the Celtics could have used to get AD could translate to decent to very good players. They will not translate to AD though.

Anyway, probably I deviate from the discussion a bit...