Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[Turk Nowitzki]

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

I don't think they did anything just to intentionally spite the Bucks. NO was smart enough to realize they had a bidding war on their hands and took advantage. I think the Celtics/Sixers genuinely wanted to acquire Jrue.

Oh I agree (they definitely wanted Jrue). I also believe they were happy to see what the Bucks had to give up at the end for Jrue though.

I mean, I have a feeling they were probably more upset that the Bucks got Jrue and potentially convinced Giannis to stay than they were happy about some draft picks we gave up 5 years down the road.

[TD75]

The Bucks with Bledsoe + Hill + picks are significantly worse compared to those Bucks with Jrue Holiday (assuming Jrue will soon be in a long term deal).

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That said I, of course, agree that the price the Bucks payed for Jrue was ridiculously high. Unfortunately this is what happens when you miss so badly on picks all those years and you are left with a team that has an obvious 2nd round in the East playoffs ceiling and a superstar in a contract that will soon expire. I don't believe that Giannis with Bledsoe would take the Bucks anywhere in postseason.

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

Now the Bucks have a fairly big postseason headache they need to resolve in Bud. Good luck with that.

Wait, this is actually a shared belief by more than one person? That Philly and Boston weren't actually interested in trading for Jrue Holiday to improve their own teams, only to drive up the price for the Bucks?

Where did you see that?

[Nowak008]

Forget the 27th pick being unprotected... it shouldn't even be in the deal. 2 firsts + 2 swaps + 2 solid rotation guys is enough.

[JimmyTheKid]

The Bucks with Bledsoe + Hill + picks are significantly worse compared to those Bucks with Jrue Holiday (assuming Jrue will soon be in a long term deal).

Much good have all those picks done the Celtics when they did not add AD to their team...

That said I, of course, agree that the price the Bucks payed for Jrue was ridiculously high. Unfortunately this is what happens when you miss so badly on picks all those years and you are left with a team that has an obvious 2nd round in the East playoffs ceiling and a superstar in a contract that will soon expire. I don't believe that Giannis with Bledsoe would take the Bucks anywhere in postseason.

I also believe that the Celtics and Philadelphia played a role in driving the price high for Jrue. That was smart of them.

Now the Bucks have a fairly big postseason headache they need to resolve in Bud. Good luck with that.

Wait, this is actually a shared belief by more than one person? That Philly and Boston weren't actually interested in trading for Jrue Holiday to improve their own teams, only to drive up the price for the Bucks?

Where did you see that?

CHL alluded to it a few pages back. And your "smart of them" comment makes it seem like the goal all along was for BOS/PHI to intentionally miss out on Jrue but drive up the price for the Bucks. Not exactly sure how that would work. More likely both Boston and Philly wanted Jrue for their own rosters and were outbid.

[buckboy]

Spoiler:

The information we have is they're both FAs. Assuming the negative side can't/won't happen because it's your team is faulty. I assume the same as you do, but it is clearly an assumption. Acting as if it's not is just wrong and there is where the risk lies. There is a long list of logical things with stars in recent years that didn't happen.

There is a big gap between doing these moves to prove to Giannis we're serious along with better in the playoffs and that a handshake is done that once the trades were completed that he's on boards. There is a big leap between one and the other that idiots like us have no idea on.

It's not faulty though. It's logical. We've seen this scenario any number of times across all sports. No one is acting as though it's not an assumption. I said as much in my post.

Completely disagree with your second paragraph, but as I said, to each their own. There is close to zero doubt in my mind that extensions are in place for both.

The fault is to assume logic always matters in this stuff. There is countless examples to the contrary.

And to have zero doubt on something you have no idea on is inherently faulty. Don't get me wrong, I assume the same as you. but I acknowledge it's an assumption and with that comes the risk. You on the other hand are just acting like it doesn't exist.

I'm actually not acting like that at all. I've stated it numerous times. You think the risk is say 20 % (just pulling a number out of the air). I think it's 1% or maybe even less.

If there are numerous examples of something like this I'm failing to recall them. I'm sure there are, I just can't think of any.

[JimmyTheKid]

Forget the 27th pick being unprotected... it shouldn't even be in the deal. 2 firsts + 2 swaps + 2 solid rotation guys is enough.

Unless Boston or Philly is offering the same package. Then its not enough. Because Boston and Philly should be picking higher. Making their picks more attractive.

[TD75]

Wait, this is actually a shared belief by more than one person? That Philly and Boston weren't actually interested in trading for Jrue Holiday to improve their own teams, only to drive up the price for the Bucks?

Where did you see that?

CHL alluded to it a few pages back. And your "smart of them" comment makes it seem like the goal all along was for BOS/PHI to intentionally miss out on Jrue but drive up the price for the Bucks. Not exactly sure how that would work. More likely both Boston and Philly wanted Jrue for their own rosters and were outbid.

My "smart of them" comment is nothing more than it is. I also explained it in detail. It certainly is not what you think it is.

[paulpressey25]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

[mke_design]

Forget the 27th pick being unprotected... it shouldn't even be in the deal. 2 firsts + 2 swaps + 2 solid rotation guys is enough.

Clearly wasn't. Unless we're still in the denial of facts universe.

[raferfenix]

I bet Holiday being so likely (if not definitively) to extend long term in Milwaukee played a major role in the Bucks being willing to pay such a huge premium for him too.

[Matches Malone]

I'm not going to stress about the picks right now. There's always times to acquire or recoup draft capital down the road. I just want to see them win one time.

[thrice123]

The people who say that Holiday and Bledsoe aren't much different makes me realize they don't watch the game and base it off they both play very good defense. Holiday's bbiq is light years ahead.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[tydett]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

But isn't their lack of patience what contributes to these types of deals? Giannis can't wait for a draft pick in 2027 to be drafted and then get good - he'll be 32 and might not even be in Milwaukee. If there's one thing we've seen over the past few years, it's that championship windows open and close really quickly in this league for all but a few teams (and certainly for Milwaukee).

Players like Giannis want to win ASAP, and have the ability to go to a team where they feel they can do so because of free agency. Milwaukee, assuming they want to keep players like Giannis, doesn't have the luxury of saying "sign with us for the next 8 years so we can see if our end-of-first-round draft picks develop into good championship pieces" - they have to make these lopsided trades now to keep their best guys and pay for it in the future. Is the value on the trade bad, in a vacuum? Yes. Does anything actually happen in a vacuum? No, and if the Bucks win a championship in the next two years and Giannis is signed for 5 more, nobody will give a **** about those picks when they come due.

[Turk Nowitzki]

The people who say that Holiday and Bledsoe aren't much different makes me realize they don't watch the game and base it off they both play very good defense. Holiday's bbiq is light years ahead.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

I think the difference for the Pelicans doesn't really matter right now, which is why I like this trade for them so much.

I agree the difference for us could be the difference between a 2nd round exit and a championship.

[LUKE23]

I think this is the best starting five the Bucks have ever had (by a decent margin), and all of them will be 32 or younger at the start of the season, with the longer contract guys 30 or under. We have IMO the best player in the league who is about to turn 26. All of this draft capital that likely will be late 1sts (outside of potentially the 2027 unprotected) is worth it for a probably 4 year window at the title (maybe longer).

Now, if Giannis doesn't sign and one or more of the picks falls in the range where a franchise changer was drafted or could have been drafted, we will need to re-evaluate this trade, obviously. In this instance I agree with Horst on the likelihood of those events occurring being very slim, outside of the 2027 unprotected, only because Giannis may not be here or may be in the declining years.

To me, injuries is really the only way this turns out to bite us.

[dbrodz7]

Random fun fact: Bucks starting five averaged 114.8 points per 36 last year.

What is their elite offensive numbers for the playoffs only?

[GoldenAntlers]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

What if Bogdan agreed to be a Buck only if they could move on from Bledsoe at point? What if he and Giannis both really wanted to play with Jrue? I feel the deals were more inter-connected than we are being shown.

[German Athens]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

From the players perspective, I pretty much completely disagree with this unless that player knows they want to stay with one franchise for their whole career. If a player wants to win now, and maximize the prime of their career, it makes sense that they would want a team to use all their assets to be good now - then when the barren chest of assets rears it’s ugly head, that player leaves for another team prepared to win now.

Now, if players don’t want to build a soft as hell legacy, then yes, they need to have a better concept of team building. But this frame of reference really is coming from the manager side of things - not the player.

[Ruzious]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

Lots of very good points there.

[Turk Nowitzki]

A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.

A lot of good points but also not really connected with the reality of the modern NBA.