ImageImage

Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

EastSideBucksFan
RealGM
Posts: 18,710
And1: 4,490
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Contact:
 

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#761 » by EastSideBucksFan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:41 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.



I hear all of this and while it would be great to think we could've shopped those picks for Bradley Beal or something, I don't think many are bringing up the flip side of the coin here and how delicate this whole ordeal was.

We could be sitting here right now with Jrue Holiday in Boston after Ainge out GM'd Horst and they have few options to make any real upgrades and Giannis is unsold and decides not to sign the extension this week.

If those two deals did not go down, Giannis could be making a trade demand and our franchise relevancy is over for the rest of most of our lives.

I'm over the moon with where we are right now.
User avatar
JimmyTheKid
General Manager
Posts: 9,062
And1: 5,451
Joined: Feb 10, 2009

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#762 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:41 pm

GoldenAntlers wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:A point made by either Simmons or Rusillo that shouldn’t get lost in the discussion is that these superstars who want immediate help (or they’ll leave) need to be more astute and patient.

What we don’t know is whether Giannis insisted Jrue was THE guy he had to have, and have him now, or not. Given that we were linked 24 hours earlier to Schroder, might indicate we didn’t need to specially acquire Jrue.

To that point, making the Bogdan trade and holding onto Hill and Bledsoe might have been a smarter move. Then see just exactly what three firsts, two unprotected, and two pick swaps gets you either later this week or at the deadline. None of us armchair GM’s ever really spent time out here contemplating trades where we’d give up SO much in the way of future assets. We could have thought up some great stuff with all those picks to work with.

BTW, lets see what NOP might get for either Hill or Bledsoe in moving them to a third team before this deal is reported officially. I still think those two guys have real value.


What if Bogdan agreed to be a Buck only if they could move on from Bledsoe at point? What if he and Giannis both really wanted to play with Jrue? I feel the deals were more inter-connected than we are being shown.


We're being shown though!

Look back through the thread. I mean it couldn't be more obvious. From the reports that "Giannis had to sign off on the Holiday deal" to the reports of "Giannis being a fan of Bogdan" to everything Giannis has said about wanting to be in Milwaukee, and staying if the right moves are made, to multiple NBA people claiming the trades and supermax are all related.

If Giannis doesn't sign the big one and/or Jrue doesn't re-up in February, then we can all collectively get mad. I mean I get the general negativity about this organization, I do, but all signs are pointing to the fact that we should be celebrating.
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,784
And1: 6,993
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#763 » by LUKE23 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:45 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:
I hear all of this and while it would be great to think we could've shopped those picks for Bradley Beal or something, I don't think many are bringing up the flip side of the coin here and how delicate this whole ordeal was.

We could be sitting here right now with Jrue Holiday in Boston after Ainge out GM'd Horst and they have few options to make any real upgrades and Giannis is unsold and decides not to sign the extension this week.

If those two deals did not go down, Giannis could be making a trade demand and our franchise relevancy is over for the rest of most of our lives.

I'm over the moon with where we are right now.


Yep.
German Athens
Veteran
Posts: 2,869
And1: 2,441
Joined: Apr 10, 2015
 

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#764 » by German Athens » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 pm

One thing that I would like to add that I’m not sure has been mentioned. While unprotected future picks that are 7 years out hold a ton of value, I’m not sure all owners would really be interested in them.

While smart owners let their gm’s run the show, and smart gm’s like presti, griffin, hinkie , morey, etc would jump all over those deals. Not all owners or gm’s are that patient themselves, and generally those deals are struck coming from organizations that have already put themselves in favorable positions - where there isn’t the same pressure to be competent because they already are. Now clearly, that’s a cycle that feeds into itself. But I’m not sure Washington would be as interested in a pick 7 years out as they would be in one 4 years out, and our pick 4 years out doesn’t hold as much value in a vacuum.

I also am interested in which owners may be looking to sell within the next 7 years to kind of recoup some money lost during Covid. I’d think there may be more owners looking to cash in post Covid than normally would be the case.
El Duderino
RealGM
Posts: 20,545
And1: 1,328
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: Working on pad level

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#765 » by El Duderino » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:59 pm

tski1972 wrote:The ‘25 and ‘27 picks needed some kind of protection on them, especially the ‘27. This is the main contention I have with this trade.


My only big beef with the trade also.

One thing i've yet to hear anyone bring up. What if Giannis does agree to sign an extension, but for only 2 or 3 years instead of the full 5 year Super Max like Kawhi did?

Keep in mind Giannis has already earned 100 million and however many millions via his dealing with Nike. I could easily see him saying i'll sign an extension, but not lock myself in for the full five years.

If then things didn't work out as well as he hoped, Giannis leaves and suddenly those unprotected picks in 25 and ‘27 become extra scary.
User avatar
Turk Nowitzki
RealGM
Posts: 34,641
And1: 11,640
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Location: on the Hellmouth
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#766 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:04 pm

El Duderino wrote:
tski1972 wrote:The ‘25 and ‘27 picks needed some kind of protection on them, especially the ‘27. This is the main contention I have with this trade.


My only big beef with the trade also.

One thing i've yet to hear anyone bring up. What if Giannis does agree to sign an extension, but for only 2 or 3 years instead of the full 5 year Super Max?

I mean, if he doesn't sign the full supermax this trade becomes worse accordingly. It only comes together if Giannis signs the full deal.
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 62,840
And1: 30,106
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#767 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm

The Bucks have made some dumb decisions over the years. But we have also seen LED and company do all sorts of back office stuff. Like bringing in Kidd. And personally believe we had a verbal with Bud perhaps before he even forced his way out of Atlanta.

I’m going under the assumption they will be ready to announce the Giannis supermax on Friday and have a handshake with Jrue for a big extension when he’s eligible in February.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
fan230
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,020
And1: 1,696
Joined: Jul 29, 2013

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#768 » by fan230 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Horst had to make the Jrue decision right then. Without all the picks etc, this would not have gone through and the Celtics would have got Jrue.

Horst did a phenomenal job in my opinion. A brave one. But an unavoidable one also if we wanted to increase the chances of keeping Giannis. As simple as that.
El Duderino
RealGM
Posts: 20,545
And1: 1,328
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: Working on pad level

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#769 » by El Duderino » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:18 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
I’m going under the assumption they will be ready to announce the Giannis supermax on Friday and have a handshake with Jrue for a big extension when he’s eligible in February.


How can the team realistically afford under the cap Super Max money for Giannis, Middleton 35 million plus per year, paying Bogdan what it seems he'll get, and then give Holiday a big extension? Besides that, Brook Lopez and his recent extension.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 33,233
And1: 16,922
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#770 » by humanrefutation » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:20 pm

I understand the wait-and-see game, but this is all about getting Giannis to sign on the dotted line.

This is part of what it means to have a superduperstar on your roster. You'll end up making moves that aren't the most prudent or the most cautious, largely to keep them happy and motivated. At least we weren't giving big contracts to JR Smith and Tristan Thompson.
User avatar
bango_the_buck
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,430
And1: 174
Joined: May 11, 2006

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#771 » by bango_the_buck » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:22 pm

Read on Twitter


The Ringer wrote:If that rationale is based in fact (and a number of plugged-in insiders seem to think that it is) and if Holiday’s arrival is followed in a few months by a multiyear extension, then the calculus shifts, taking on a shape similar to the Clippers’ megadeal with the Thunder last offseason. Milwaukee’s not trading three good players, five picks, and about $11.5 million in expiring contracts for Holiday and Bogdanovic; it’s trading that package for Holiday, Bogdanovic, and Giannis. And if that’s what it is, then you do it 100 times out of 100.


A glass half-full view of the Holiday trade to counter when people see the "significant draft compensation" and say things like we are trading five 1st round picks. It really is in all likelyhood going to be closer to one unprotected 1st round pick (in 2027) and two pick swaps (#24 this year a late 1st in 2025 for two second round picks this year), since the pick swaps in 2024 and 2026 are likely to be irrelevant. Seems much more palettable/reasonable if you think of it that way.
Scott Skiles on being compared by reporters to Hall of Fame coach Pat Riley: "If I thought you guys knew anything, I'd be flattered."
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 62,840
And1: 30,106
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#772 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:27 pm

El Duderino wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
I’m going under the assumption they will be ready to announce the Giannis supermax on Friday and have a handshake with Jrue for a big extension when he’s eligible in February.


How can the team realistically afford under the cap Super Max money for Giannis, Middleton 35 million plus per year, paying Bogdan what it seems he'll get, and then give Holiday a big extension? Besides that, Brook Lopez and his recent extension.


This is where we assume LED go big into the luxury tax. And plausible league revenues take a couple years to recover, during which time the luxury tax penalties (and salaries) are lower. Remember the players are having held back 18% this year and 18% next year due to pandemic. Meanwhile I’d guess LED are making some big bucks in their hedge fund business.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
User avatar
Frank Nova
Head Coach
Posts: 7,383
And1: 3,560
Joined: Jul 04, 2008
Location: Shootin’ dice with Larry Bird in Barcelona
       

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#773 » by Frank Nova » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:28 pm

So are we getting 42 and 60 in tonight’s draft or has anything been confirmed yet about that? Sorry if this has been answered already, I can’t seem to find it anywhere to confirm it...
RIP Kobe Forever. GOAT 8-24. Long Live Giannis
Profound23
RealGM
Posts: 21,020
And1: 8,653
Joined: Jun 29, 2005
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#774 » by Profound23 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:39 pm

bango_the_buck wrote:
Read on Twitter


The Ringer wrote:If that rationale is based in fact (and a number of plugged-in insiders seem to think that it is) and if Holiday’s arrival is followed in a few months by a multiyear extension, then the calculus shifts, taking on a shape similar to the Clippers’ megadeal with the Thunder last offseason. Milwaukee’s not trading three good players, five picks, and about $11.5 million in expiring contracts for Holiday and Bogdanovic; it’s trading that package for Holiday, Bogdanovic, and Giannis. And if that’s what it is, then you do it 100 times out of 100.


A glass half-full view of the Holiday trade to counter when people see the "significant draft compensation" and say things like we are trading five 1st round picks. It really is in all likelyhood going to be closer to one unprotected 1st round pick (in 2027) and two pick swaps (#24 this year a late 1st in 2025 for two second round picks this year), since the pick swaps in 2024 and 2026 are likely to be irrelevant. Seems much more palettable/reasonable if you think of it that way.



I didn't realize this was all the way to 2027. Man, Giannis and Jrue better have agreed to sign his extension. If not we are screwed.
User avatar
buckboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,185
And1: 8,562
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: At the Gettin' Place
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#775 » by buckboy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:47 pm

Frank Nova wrote:So are we getting 42 and 60 in tonight’s draft or has anything been confirmed yet about that? Sorry if this has been answered already, I can’t seem to find it anywhere to confirm it...


42 appears to be out, but they picked up #45 from Orlando. So 45 & 60 confirmed.
"This is my home, this is my city...I'm blessed to be a part of the Milwaukee Bucks for the next 5 years. Let's make these years count. The show goes on, let's get it."
User avatar
Wooderson
RealGM
Posts: 13,292
And1: 6,007
Joined: Mar 03, 2008

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#776 » by Wooderson » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Siefer wrote:I'm not a regular Simmons listener these days, but I tuned in to the conversation on the Bucks, and almost turned the pod off because I was again reminded of how obnoxious I find Russillo. Simmons at least has the good sense to suggest he's self-aware of his shoot from the hips takes, but Russillo just subs in aggressive and confident declarations equal in proportion to his lack of actual knowledge on a subject.


Look, I'm not a Russillo hater. Anyone who knows me know how much I love Ryan. But that guy completely sucks.
User avatar
mke_design
Analyst
Posts: 3,579
And1: 2,156
Joined: Mar 09, 2014
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#777 » by mke_design » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Frank Nova wrote:So are we getting 42 and 60 in tonight’s draft or has anything been confirmed yet about that? Sorry if this has been answered already, I can’t seem to find it anywhere to confirm it...


Nehm reported 42 was purchased - as was followed up by Shams. Only one saying its not the case is Bobby Marks (who i never heard of before today)
DavidDunn21 wrote:So please allow me to continue to be the scapegoat for our very rational fears, but just remember that I understand and forgive all of you.
PG Graveyard
General Manager
Posts: 9,146
And1: 5,944
Joined: Nov 26, 2015
     

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#778 » by PG Graveyard » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:55 pm

mke_design wrote:
Frank Nova wrote:So are we getting 42 and 60 in tonight’s draft or has anything been confirmed yet about that? Sorry if this has been answered already, I can’t seem to find it anywhere to confirm it...


Nehm reported 42 was purchased - as was followed up by Shams. Only one saying its not the case is Bobby Marks (who i never heard of before today)


Where did Shams report that? I don't see it anywhere. 3 second round picks will be fun tonight if true.
Bucksfan28
General Manager
Posts: 8,439
And1: 5,716
Joined: Nov 15, 2009

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#779 » by Bucksfan28 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:01 pm

Wooderson wrote:
Siefer wrote:I'm not a regular Simmons listener these days, but I tuned in to the conversation on the Bucks, and almost turned the pod off because I was again reminded of how obnoxious I find Russillo. Simmons at least has the good sense to suggest he's self-aware of his shoot from the hips takes, but Russillo just subs in aggressive and confident declarations equal in proportion to his lack of actual knowledge on a subject.


Look, I'm not a Russillo hater. Anyone who knows me know how much I love Ryan. But that guy completely sucks.


It's amazing how unlistenable dude has become.
MoreTrife wrote:Love seeing two buffoons have a buffoon competition.
User avatar
Frank Nova
Head Coach
Posts: 7,383
And1: 3,560
Joined: Jul 04, 2008
Location: Shootin’ dice with Larry Bird in Barcelona
       

Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#780 » by Frank Nova » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:06 pm



This kid might’ve been over looked in all the excitement. 23yrs old he looks like he can really play...

Anyone got some more scoop on him? Did he get any minutes for the Kings at all last year in any meaningful time?
RIP Kobe Forever. GOAT 8-24. Long Live Giannis

Return to Milwaukee Bucks