Pistons Trading for Tony Snell

[440BB]

At the time of the Snell trade the thinking was that we were going to be competitive with a healthy Griffin, Rose and Kennard. Snell fit with that group compared to an unhealthy Leuer. Yes, it was a pipe dream but at the time was better than the nothing that Leuer was going to provide.

With our injuries and the waste of the draft pick it looks pretty lousy in retrospect.

[vege]

Funny thing is, Milwaukee is still paying around 4 mil per season for Leuer.

[chrbal]

So now that Jordan Bone is a goner, all Detroit has left for taking on Snell's extra $12+ mil year is the draft rights to Deividas Sirvydis and Portland's 2023 2nd rounder.

Oh yeah, Snell also cost like $2.5 mil more than Leuer did last year, which put Detroit right at the tax line all season.

Anybody still think that the Snell trade was a good move?

The initial trade was fine. Getting Snell, meh. But Leuer was done. Was interested to see what the interest in Porter was.
The dumping of him for the grab bag of 2nds was pointless.

[SamFlow]

So now that Jordan Bone is a goner, all Detroit has left for taking on Snell's extra $12+ mil year is the draft rights to Deividas Sirvydis and Portland's 2023 2nd rounder.

Oh yeah, Snell also cost like $2.5 mil more than Leuer did last year, which put Detroit right at the tax line all season.

Anybody still think that the Snell trade was a good move?

The initial trade was fine. Getting Snell, meh. But Leuer was done. Was interested to see what the interest in Porter was.
The dumping of him for the grab bag of 2nds was pointless.

I personally have no issue with the snell deal.

Let's see how we leverage his expiring contract now. The entire snell deal is not over yet.

[Billl]

Getting a pick for an extra year of snell + snell>> leuer, that's not a bad deal. Hopefully, we flip him again and get another pick. This time, we just need to not waste it.

[vege]

Getting a pick for an extra year of snell + snell>> leuer, that's not a bad deal. Hopefully, we flip him again and get another pick. This time, we just need to not waste it.

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

[thesack12]

Getting a pick for an extra year of snell + snell>> leuer, that's not a bad deal. Hopefully, we flip him again and get another pick. This time, we just need to not waste it.

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

[Billl]

:nod:

Getting a pick for an extra year of snell + snell>> leuer, that's not a bad deal. Hopefully, we flip him again and get another pick. This time, we just need to not waste it.

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

So, what do you think raw cap space gets us this off season? That's what we are talking about. We already have a ton of cap space. We aren't going to sign a young star with it. We are just hoping to facilitate a trade and ... wait for it ... get a pick out of the deal. We should have been stockpiling future picks though, not trying to get players for that year.

But yes, if we can't move snell, he should be nailed to the bench and/or cut. With all our injuries last year and Sekou being so raw, he didn't really block anyone's playing time. This year, hopefully Sekou is ready for more minutes and Luke is back and maybe we have a prospect from this draft on the wing as well.

[thesack12]

:nod:

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

So, what do you think raw cap space gets us this off season? That's what we are talking about. We already have a ton of cap space. We aren't going to sign a young star with it. We are just hoping to facilitate a trade and ... wait for it ... get a pick out of the deal. We should have been stockpiling future picks though, not trying to get players for that year.

But yes, if we can't move snell, he should be nailed to the bench and/or cut. With all our injuries last year and Sekou being so raw, he didn't really block anyone's playing time. This year, hopefully Sekou is ready for more minutes and Luke is back and maybe we have a prospect from this draft on the wing as well.

$12 mil in raw cap is capable of getting something better than #30. For instance Indiana got TJ Warren + #32 for $11 mil of raw cap this time last year. Warren has value as a player and is a world beater compared to Snell and the difference between 30 and 32 is negligible.

All of Kennard/Brown/Sekou could have played minutes at the 3 that Snell took. Any of those guys getting minutes at the 3 would have also opened up some spot minutes for Khyri Thomas at the 2. But yeah, I do agree Snell has absolutely no business playing really at all this season, as it serves no functional purpose.

[vege]

So, what do you think raw cap space gets us this off season?

More than Snell, that's for sure.

[chrbal]

:nod:

Getting a pick for an extra year of snell + snell>> leuer, that's not a bad deal. Hopefully, we flip him again and get another pick. This time, we just need to not waste it.

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

For where the pistons were last season it was a good move. We needed a solid wing and another young player(s). They botched it when they dealt with Cleveland.

[Billl]

:nod:



People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

So, what do you think raw cap space gets us this off season? That's what we are talking about. We already have a ton of cap space. We aren't going to sign a young star with it. We are just hoping to facilitate a trade and ... wait for it ... get a pick out of the deal. We should have been stockpiling future picks though, not trying to get players for that year.

But yes, if we can't move snell, he should be nailed to the bench and/or cut. With all our injuries last year and Sekou being so raw, he didn't really block anyone's playing time. This year, hopefully Sekou is ready for more minutes and Luke is back and maybe we have a prospect from this draft on the wing as well.

$12 mil in raw cap is capable of getting something better than #30. For instance Indiana got TJ Warren + #32 for $11 mil of raw cap this time last year. Warren has value as a player and is a world beater compared to Snell and the difference between 30 and 32 is negligible.

All of Kennard/Brown/Sekou could have played minutes at the 3 that Snell took. Any of those guys getting minutes at the 3 would have also opened up some spot minutes for Khyri Thomas at the 2. But yeah, I do agree Snell has absolutely no business playing really at all this season, as it serves no functional purpose.

Better than #30 is a first round pick. So do you think we can get 3 first round picks with our current cap space and then a 4th with that extra snell money? That's the situation we would be in.

[thesack12]

So, what do you think raw cap space gets us this off season? That's what we are talking about. We already have a ton of cap space. We aren't going to sign a young star with it. We are just hoping to facilitate a trade and ... wait for it ... get a pick out of the deal. We should have been stockpiling future picks though, not trying to get players for that year.

But yes, if we can't move snell, he should be nailed to the bench and/or cut. With all our injuries last year and Sekou being so raw, he didn't really block anyone's playing time. This year, hopefully Sekou is ready for more minutes and Luke is back and maybe we have a prospect from this draft on the wing as well.

$12 mil in raw cap is capable of getting something better than #30. For instance Indiana got TJ Warren + #32 for $11 mil of raw cap this time last year. Warren has value as a player and is a world beater compared to Snell and the difference between 30 and 32 is negligible.

All of Kennard/Brown/Sekou could have played minutes at the 3 that Snell took. Any of those guys getting minutes at the 3 would have also opened up some spot minutes for Khyri Thomas at the 2. But yeah, I do agree Snell has absolutely no business playing really at all this season, as it serves no functional purpose.

Better than #30 is a first round pick. So do you think we can get 3 first round picks with our current cap space and then a 4th with that extra snell money? That's the situation we would be in.

Well as I mentioned TJ Warren + 32 was gotten via $12 mil in raw cap. Warren is a comparable talent/player to Robert Covington who was just traded to Portland for 2 1st rounders. If Indy wanted to move Warren right now, there would be a solid market for him. Warren is arguably better than Covington, and is 2 years younger as well.

Don't get caught in the idea that you have to be done once you make a single move. Case in point OKC just flipped Danny Green for more picks, whom they got 2 days aho. And later on down the road they will be able to trade Horford for value.

Point being, you use the cap space to acquire assets. Not all assets immediately turn into draft picks/young players. So do I believe that Detroit can acquire 3 first round picks while dangling $40 mil in cap space. Eventually, yes I absolutely do. Just have to be patient and take the long view. Not being patient is the main reason why the Snell trade sucked.

[thesack12]

:nod:

You know raw cap space is worth a hell lot more than a below average expiring player right? If we didn't trade Leuer for Snell, Leuer would expire, and we would have more raw cap space this offseason, to either sign players or take someone's garbage for picks (plural)

People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

For where the pistons were last season it was a good move. We needed a solid wing and another young player(s). They botched it when they dealt with Cleveland.

Who was the "solid wing?" Snell doesn't qualify

[Billl]

$12 mil in raw cap is capable of getting something better than #30. For instance Indiana got TJ Warren + #32 for $11 mil of raw cap this time last year. Warren has value as a player and is a world beater compared to Snell and the difference between 30 and 32 is negligible.

All of Kennard/Brown/Sekou could have played minutes at the 3 that Snell took. Any of those guys getting minutes at the 3 would have also opened up some spot minutes for Khyri Thomas at the 2. But yeah, I do agree Snell has absolutely no business playing really at all this season, as it serves no functional purpose.

Better than #30 is a first round pick. So do you think we can get 3 first round picks with our current cap space and then a 4th with that extra snell money? That's the situation we would be in.

Well as I mentioned TJ Warren + 32 was gotten via $12 mil in raw cap. Warren is a comparable talent/player to Robert Covington who was just traded to Portland for 2 1st rounders. If Indy wanted to move Warren right now, there would be a solid market for him. Warren is arguably better than Covington, and is 2 years younger as well.

Don't get caught in the idea that you have to be done once you make a single move. Case in point OKC just flipped Danny Green for more picks, whom they got 2 days aho. And later on down the road they will be able to trade Horford for value.

Point being, you use the cap space to acquire assets. Not all assets immediately turn into draft picks/young players. So do I believe that Detroit can acquire 3 first round picks while dangling $40 mil in cap space. Eventually, yes I absolutely do. Just have to be patient and take the long view. Not being patient is the main reason why the Snell trade sucked.

Not sure why you are ignoring the fact that we can still get a first rounder if that trade became available. We've got plenty of cap space. 4 of those trades don't become available every year though. And if we hang on to snell and let him expire... we get the cap space again. The only thing wrong with the snell trade is that we squandered the pick we got.

[chrbal]

:nod:



People are impatient and therefore lose sight of the long term view of things. So many people were happy to say Pistons got a 1st for Jon freakin Leuer, lets celebrate. When in reality they traded Jon Leuer + cap space/flexibility. While giving Snell lots of minutes over guys like Sekou.

Whats better Having Snell/rights to Sirvydis/2023 Portland 2nd right now, or simply "suffering" through watching Leuer nailed to the bench all last season and having an additional $12+ mil in cap space? Offering $12 mil in raw cap, can get you a more value than #30.

People talk about playing Bruce Brown possibly getting in the way of the development of players, whereas Tony Snell is the posterboy for such a role.

The Snell trade was never a good move, and the subsequent moves have only made it worse.

For where the pistons were last season it was a good move. We needed a solid wing and another young player(s). They botched it when they dealt with Cleveland.

Who was the "solid wing?" Snell doesn't qualify

For what they were doing, it made sense. Had the team been healthier and with the cost, it could have worked.

I’m not saying it was a great trade, just it made sense .

Honestly I am someone who was jealous last season that Washington got Mo Wagner, two other young players and a 2nd for cash. Or that Memphis got josh Jackson/Melton for little. And that the pacers got TJ Warren cheap.

But none of those moves would have made sense for what the pistons were doing last season.

[thesack12]

Better than #30 is a first round pick. So do you think we can get 3 first round picks with our current cap space and then a 4th with that extra snell money? That's the situation we would be in.

Well as I mentioned TJ Warren + 32 was gotten via $12 mil in raw cap. Warren is a comparable talent/player to Robert Covington who was just traded to Portland for 2 1st rounders. If Indy wanted to move Warren right now, there would be a solid market for him. Warren is arguably better than Covington, and is 2 years younger as well.

Don't get caught in the idea that you have to be done once you make a single move. Case in point OKC just flipped Danny Green for more picks, whom they got 2 days aho. And later on down the road they will be able to trade Horford for value.

Point being, you use the cap space to acquire assets. Not all assets immediately turn into draft picks/young players. So do I believe that Detroit can acquire 3 first round picks while dangling $40 mil in cap space. Eventually, yes I absolutely do. Just have to be patient and take the long view. Not being patient is the main reason why the Snell trade sucked.

Not sure why you are ignoring the fact that we can still get a first rounder if that trade became available. We've got plenty of cap space. 4 of those trades don't become available every year though. And if we hang on to snell and let him expire... we get the cap space again. The only thing wrong with the snell trade is that we squandered the pick we got.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm aware Detroit still has cap space. What I'm saying is they could have MORE opportunities to make such moves if they didn't burn cap on Snell.


4 of what trades? The reason why you don't see many of the Warren type trades is because GM's get antsy and burn their cap on signing free agents. If you have available cap space and are willing to eat salary, there are always several teams who want to deal with you. That scenario never changes, whether its the offseason, or at the trade deadline. Teams will always want to cut salary for a plethora of reasons.

As for letting Snell expire, you aren't really gaining anything actually. Because if you never had him to begin with, you wouldn't need to wait to recoup the cap space he was eating up.

Now there is an argument to be made that his expiring contract could be used in trade, but the counter to that is he doesn't hold any value as a player so his $12 mil expiring contract will never be more valuable than being able to offer $12 mil in raw cap.

[thesack12]

For where the pistons were last season it was a good move. We needed a solid wing and another young player(s). They botched it when they dealt with Cleveland.

Who was the "solid wing?" Snell doesn't qualify

For what they were doing, it made sense. Had the team been healthier and with the cost, it could have worked.

I’m not saying it was a great trade, just it made sense .

Honestly I am someone who was jealous last season that Washington got Mo Wagner, two other young players and a 2nd for cash. Or that Memphis got josh Jackson/Melton for little. And that the pacers got TJ Warren cheap.

But none of those moves would have made sense for what the pistons were doing last season.

I hear you, and that is the "logic" the front office was trying to convince themselves of. Still Tony Snell was never going to move the needle, and the team inevitably pivoted to rebuild mode. A rebuild was always the best course of action, all bringing in Snell did was block minutes from young players and eat up cap.

[Billl]

Well as I mentioned TJ Warren + 32 was gotten via $12 mil in raw cap. Warren is a comparable talent/player to Robert Covington who was just traded to Portland for 2 1st rounders. If Indy wanted to move Warren right now, there would be a solid market for him. Warren is arguably better than Covington, and is 2 years younger as well.

Don't get caught in the idea that you have to be done once you make a single move. Case in point OKC just flipped Danny Green for more picks, whom they got 2 days aho. And later on down the road they will be able to trade Horford for value.

Point being, you use the cap space to acquire assets. Not all assets immediately turn into draft picks/young players. So do I believe that Detroit can acquire 3 first round picks while dangling $40 mil in cap space. Eventually, yes I absolutely do. Just have to be patient and take the long view. Not being patient is the main reason why the Snell trade sucked.

Not sure why you are ignoring the fact that we can still get a first rounder if that trade became available. We've got plenty of cap space. 4 of those trades don't become available every year though. And if we hang on to snell and let him expire... we get the cap space again. The only thing wrong with the snell trade is that we squandered the pick we got.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm aware Detroit still has cap space. What I'm saying is they could have MORE opportunities to make such moves if they didn't burn cap on Snell.


4 of what trades? The reason why you don't see many of the Warren type trades is because GM's get antsy and burn their cap on signing free agents. If you have available cap space and are willing to eat salary, there are always several teams who want to deal with you. That scenario never changes, whether its the offseason, or at the trade deadline. Teams will always want to cut salary for a plethora of reasons.

As for letting Snell expire, you aren't really gaining anything actually. Because if you never had him to begin with, you wouldn't need to wait to recoup the cap space he was eating up.

Now there is an argument to be made that his expiring contract could be used in trade, but the counter to that is he doesn't hold any value as a player so his $12 mil expiring contract will never be more valuable than being able to offer $12 mil in raw cap.

In the entire history of the NBA, there has been no team that turned cap space into 4 1st round picks in an off season It just doesn't work that way. There might be 1 or 2 teams that get a single first rounder that way, and we are positioned to be one of them.
But obviously raw cap space is better than an expiring. That's not the snell trade though. It's raw cap space vs an expiring and a pick. What we did with that pick was stupid, but trading 1 year of cap space for a pick+cap space a year later is exactly what we should be doing in a rebuild. That's what you want us to do this year, right? We just have to not squander the picks we get back in that type of trade.

[thesack12]

Not sure why you are ignoring the fact that we can still get a first rounder if that trade became available. We've got plenty of cap space. 4 of those trades don't become available every year though. And if we hang on to snell and let him expire... we get the cap space again. The only thing wrong with the snell trade is that we squandered the pick we got.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm aware Detroit still has cap space. What I'm saying is they could have MORE opportunities to make such moves if they didn't burn cap on Snell.


4 of what trades? The reason why you don't see many of the Warren type trades is because GM's get antsy and burn their cap on signing free agents. If you have available cap space and are willing to eat salary, there are always several teams who want to deal with you. That scenario never changes, whether its the offseason, or at the trade deadline. Teams will always want to cut salary for a plethora of reasons.

As for letting Snell expire, you aren't really gaining anything actually. Because if you never had him to begin with, you wouldn't need to wait to recoup the cap space he was eating up.

Now there is an argument to be made that his expiring contract could be used in trade, but the counter to that is he doesn't hold any value as a player so his $12 mil expiring contract will never be more valuable than being able to offer $12 mil in raw cap.

In the entire history of the NBA, there has been no team that turned cap space into 4 1st round picks in an off season It just doesn't work that way. There might be 1 or 2 teams that get a single first rounder that way, and we are positioned to be one of them.
But obviously raw cap space is better than an expiring. That's not the snell trade though. It's raw cap space vs an expiring and a pick. What we did with that pick was stupid, but trading 1 year of cap space for a pick+cap space a year later is exactly what we should be doing in a rebuild. That's what you want us to do this year, right? We just have to not squander the picks we get back in that type of trade.

I guess you missed the part where I said you don't have to be done after making a move. There is no limitations on how many trades a team can make.

Accumulation of assets via taking the long view and practicing patience.