Deni Avdija

[smoothSeph]

Reminds me of Jan Vesely a bit. Crazy hops and hustle but trash offensively.

Vesely? Just say you haven't watched the kid play.

[gambitx777]

He definitely has better skills than Jan had! His shooting needs work but it's not horrid horrid. Worse shooters have been taken higher.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[80sballboy]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/israeli-nba-draft-prospect-deni-avdija-says-youre-looking-for-luka-in-all-the-wrong-places/9v32z4d6eaxl1vj6munuhpz6j

https://www.nbadraftjunkies.com/deni-avdija

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/deni-avdija/

[prime1time]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

[truwizfan4evr]

Hey y'all - Wolves fan here. I love the pick for you. I wanted Deni with the #1 pick, so I'll probably hang out here at times as the season gets nearer. Congrats and cheers!

thanks

[80sballboy]

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-draft/nba-draft-prospects

[miller31time]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

Yeah, I don’t see much of Jan. But I do see some Mario Hezonja. Which is what I expect Deni to become.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

Yeah, I don’t see much of Jan. But I do see some Mario Hezonja. Which is what I expect Deni to become.

Yes. I was trying to think who he reminds me of. Hezonja. Totally. Mediocre. Not great at anything.

[Frichuela]

I would encourage everyone to take a look at Deni’s page in the realgm draft forum.

Here is a long piece from an Israeli’s poster. Biased obviously but interesting IMO:

quote="arusinov"]Avdija's biased assesment from an Israeli fan

I will not claim that this post is not biased. As Israeli I'm hopeful for Deni and naturally look for his advantages and probably somewhat downplay his short-comes.

But as someone who followed his development for several years I would try to present his case showing facts which many reports lacking or omits while trying to explain why I think Deni is a great pick:

Main selling points which probably known to most people but should be stated as the discussion's starting point

* Excellent playmaking abilities on extremely rare level for 6'9" player:

- proficient in running p&r as a ball handler

- passes very well out of post (including LeBron style cross-court passes)

- great passing in transition

* Versatile and effective scorer

- good finisher around basket: improved a lot this season, has one of best 2P% among all prospects - ~65%, both crafty and athletic, can finish with either hand

- very smart cutter due to his high BBIQ

- advanced post game, can post up on either side

- shooting potential: there're legitimate concerns about 3P% but Avdija has good range and quick release from high point, can shoot off-dribble including step-backs

- Iso-scoring potential - attacks basket successfully when guarded by forwards (and use mismatches closer to basket against smaller wings)

* Can quickly became elite open court player

- good defensive rebounder and great in pushing ball in transition

- can go coast to coast extremely fast

- great passer in high-speed sequences with excellent court vision and top-level passing precision

* High work ethics and drive to win

2. Stereotypes and misunderstanding

* Advija is frequently called "not an athletic player" or at best "just average athlete in NBA" and subsequently compared with really slow and not athletic players like Saric

While not freak athlete Avdija is very athletic player, well above average for NBA forward/big wing

- his straight line speed is rare, he runs near full court with the ball from steal/defensive rebound to dunk in less than 4 seconds

- very good leaping ability, and not only of one-foot per some reports, but of two-feet too: at age of 17 he was measured with no-step vertical of 31" and max vertical of 35", and improved a lot since then: he almost touches rim with his head in some of running dunks (\~37-39" max vertical), can easily dunks from standing (\~33-34" no-step vertical)

- his good blocking abilities are based not only on positioning but also on very good verticality

- first step is not elite, but still much quicker than of most similar size NBA players

* Another (minor) knock on Avidja's physical qualities is his presumably short wingspan of 6'9".

- actually this number cames from the same measurement 2 years ago as the verticals value, he also was 6'7.5" then so his current wingspan is probably ~6'10.5" which is not that much below NBA's average for his size.


* Many reports claim that he's too weak to defend inside

- it was correct year ago when he weighted 210 lbs, he added muslces before start of the season and in time of Covid-19 hiatus

- now he weights around 227 lbs - without loosing in speed or vertical

- having good relatively wide frame he probably can add another 10-15 lbs while preserving current level of athleticism

* People say that their team needs more defense and "Advija can't defend".

- No one knows whether Advija will be good defender in NBA, but saying about player which had 2.4 blk per game in Euro U20 (including 3.3 blk per game in sequence of QF/ SF /F ) and was considered above average defender in Euroleague as 18 - 19 years old that he "can't defend" seems to be an opinion squarely based on prejudice.

- He is regarded as very good team/ help defender and not bad personal defender on wing (in Euroleague) which can switch on bigs and guards

* Statistics and accomplishments

Many people which call Avdija "just a prospect" seems to know only about his "struggles" (4.0 / 2.6 /1.2) in Euroleague. Others dismiss his Israeli domestic league and Euro U20 success as being against weak competition

*While nowhere close to Doncic's success (which is one of the kind) Avdija is one of most accomplished top prospects in recent drafts (as in those one-and-done times most top selections best achievement was getting through couple of rounds in NCAA tournament)

- He was dominant player since junior teams time: MVP of the BWB European Camp, MVP of the BWB Global Camp, all-tournament team selection in Euroleague U18 tournament (with averages of 24.7 pts/ 12.0 rbs / 6.7 ast) and so on

- He was selected to all-tournament team of 2018 Euro U20 while being just 17 years old (some 2.5 younger then average age of players in the tournament)

- At 2019 Euro U20 he provided one of best and most dominating perfromances in the history of the tournament. Avdija posted 18.4 pts, 8.3 reb, 5.3 ast, 2.1 stl, 2.4 blk (top 5 in tournament in each category while being 2nd youngest among all players in the tournament), leading Israeli to the gold and becoming youngest ever Euro U20 MVP.

- In Israeli BSL league Avdija had 12.9 pts (on effective 61.3 TS% scoring), 6.3 reb, 2.7 ast. for the best team in the league and got MVP award

*Considering level of competition in Israeli league:

- While certainly not one of best league in Europe I-BSL is still much stronger competition that any NCAA prospect faced
- The league features many ex-NBA players and European vets
- Players which score ~13 - 15ppg like Avdija in I-BSL are expected to score in double digits in more prominent European leagues as for example French LNP-ProA or even Spanish ACB - Tomer Ginat, Rafi Menco, Jake Cohen, Kyvon Davenport are just this year examples

*Also there's assumption that even if average level of I-BSL is not really bad - playing specifically for Maccabi is an easy task. This assumption is wrong for for a young player:

- Maccabi's largest (by wide margin) budget still doesn't insure championship. For example in 2015-16 they finished I-BSL regular season 24W /9L in 2nd place, in 2016-17 in 4th place with 14 losses.

- Euroleague is the primary competition for Maccabi but it doesn't mean that losses in I-BSL are tolerated. Usually only really great season in Euroleague may save coach's job in case of failure in the domestic league and so Maccabi is notoriously known for not giving young players opportunities.

- Even if the youngster gets into Maccabi's rotation in I-BSL in order to be among the team's leaders he should outperform ex-NBA players and Euroleague vets.

- This year 24W/ 4L despite many injuries the team was plagued with in very large part because of good play of Avdija

- Most important is Avdija's progress as the season went on: he started season as just a rotational player which didn't start majority of games, but at the second half of the season he became the team go-to player averaging over 15 ppg second half of the season

* People claim that Avdija succeeded in lesser competitions but "struggled greatly" in Euroleague but it's not really what happened

-The perceived lack of success in Euroleague was first due to the fact that at the start of the season the coach didn't consider Avdija as part of the team's rotation in Euroleague

- 18 years old players (not named Luka Doncic) are almost never in playoff Euroleague teams' rotation

- Player which " struggles greatly " would get glued to the bench but in fact Advija's minutes and role went up steadily. Minutes went from ~10 min to ~15 min to ~20 min last games, and average production improved from ~2.5 ppg to ~5 ppg to ~7 ppg

- Also while being 3&D wing (which was the only role the coach was ready to give 18 years old in Euroleague) isn't the best fit for Avdija's game, he adopted pretty well - played good defense and finished efficiently around basket on cuts, post-ups and in transition... his 3P shooting was on/off as typical for him right now

* Real concerns

- Deni has great feel for the game and he's very gifted playmaker but his ball handling ability isn't good enough to be primary ball handler as he's very right-hand dominant

- His FT% is weirdly low and his long range shooting is inconsistent. It seems that something in his (looking relatively good) shot mechanics or in his head causes him to be on/off shooter from any distance including FT

* Concusuion

- I don't see any reason why Deni wouldn't became at least roleplayer which can start contribute from the first day.

- Improving ball handling and consistent shot would unlock star potential.[/quote]

[Meliorus]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

Yeah, I don’t see much of Jan. But I do see some Mario Hezonja. Which is what I expect Deni to become.

I see Hezonja with some playmaking. Those free throw percentages and three-point percentages don't bode well. Neither does the wingspan for guarding NBA wings. The subjective arguments are getting tiresome because they're not supported by facts, I was done when I saw an analyst say he had an "intelligent" first step. What is the value of having an average athleticism wing who doesn't shoot 3's?

[Frichuela]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

Yeah, I don’t see much of Jan. But I do see some Mario Hezonja. Which is what I expect Deni to become.

Yes. I was trying to think who he reminds me of. Hezonja. Totally. Mediocre. Not great at anything.

No way, sorry. Hezonja’s last season at Barcelona was much worse than Deni’s season at Maccabi last year. Different tier of player.

[FAH1223]

So is Deni going to get minutes? G League?

[doclinkin]

So is Deni going to get minutes? G League?

He will get minutes. He passes well, and makes smart cuts. So he will play well with veterans. Has played on pro teams and takes coaching well, so he won't be benched to teach him a lesson until he has a defensive lapse.

[WallStar]

The Vesely comparisons are lazy.

Yeah, I don’t see much of Jan. But I do see some Mario Hezonja. Which is what I expect Deni to become.

I'm only comparing their physical attributes. Not saying he's Jan by any means. I know we have a sour taste leftover. Here's to hoping he develops better than the Czech.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Would have loved Haliburton with the pick. When was the last time we had a rock-solid combo guard off the bench? Antonio Daniels? Deni just seems redundant with another no-defense forward in Rui.

I hope I eat my words. We’ll see.

He looks worse than Rui to me.

This guy looks like he’s playing in slow motion. He looks slow and weak. Overhyped and overrated.

He’s a good passer. What Dat said about shooting is true. He looks like a pure shooter but will he convert in the NBA?

I doubt it.

[Kanyewest]

If you ever wondered what a Satoranski, Vesely (minus the vertical) hybrid looked like, there's your guy.

Sato has a pretty good vertical.

[TGW]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he starts at some point this season. Bonga sucks, and Troy is more of a guard.

[prime1time]

Is he even coming this year?

[truwizfan4evr]

we got the biggest steal of the draft.

[Shoe]

I remember how comfortable Jan was against the full court press. Cmon. Deni is a better ball handler than Rui as well. He can run a PnR offense.