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The 2020 NBA Draft

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Are you happy with the Jalen Smith pick?

Yes, without a doubt
20
30%
Yes, but I would have preferred Haliburton or Vassell or maybe Bey or Lewis
29
43%
No, I would have preferred one of the above guys
12
18%
No, there were at least 10 guys I would have taken over him.
6
9%
 
Total votes: 67

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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#801 » by Kerrsed » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:40 pm

I see a lot of people saying Smith cant play PF and questioning his fit next to Ayton. You guys do realize that he played PF all last season next to a C (Bruno Fernando) who now plays for the Atlanta Hawks right?

Throughout his HS career he also was a PF.

Maryland big man Jalen Smith had a very strong final season for the Terps, averaging 15.5 points, 10.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks while leading UMD to a Big Ten title. He says he did all of that while playing out of position.

That could be a reference to big men Makhi and Makhel Mitchell transferring out midseason. Smith had to play center when he, and apparently the coaching staff, felt he was a natural power forward.

"I was pretty much playing out of position most of the year because [coach Mark] Turgeon wanted me to play the four, but most of the year I played at the five due to issues we had behind the scenes with the team," Smith said.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/jalen-smith-says-he-played-out-position-terps

Now dont get me wrong, he played great at C when asked to, that speaks of his versatility. He is a stretch 4 that can also be a stretch 5. I dont care what the Talking Heads say about its easy to grab a guy already in the league that can do what he does at C, but thats BS. 3 Point shooting C's that are also strong defenders are a bit of a rarity. Jokic is one, Vučević, Ibaka, Turner to some point, JJJ. Point being most of the C's that are 3 point shooters arnt really known for their defense, they are more the "Soft" guys, and most of the top defensive type C's are the guys that have their asses planted in the paint.

Now the reason why im bringing up 3 point shooting defensive C's when i just went on a tangent about Smith being a PF and playing next to Ayton is this: David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) brought up something that a lot of you are going to hate, the idea that we very well may look at running Ayton out at PF since his footwork is a bit better. In reality it would be kinda like the position-less SG/SF/PF that you see in the NBA, guys that can play more than one position and not directly defining what they are playing because they have the same skillset as other players. They just play. But instead of SF/PF or SG/SF, we would be doing it at PF/C. Fact is we now have two large (6'11) and long guys that are excellent defenders, excellent rebounders, and can hit the 3 ball. Ayton is the quicker of the two and has better dribbling and footwork. I have also seen more mid-range from Ayton, but im not saying Smith doesnt have that aspect to his game, i just havent watched enough actual games to see it happen.

I could totally see the two playing next to each other, and possibly Ayton playing the position he says he really is (PF) or just outright going position-less like i said. Imagine the defensive possibilities of a Bridges/Ayton/Smith line. Thats not even factoring in CP3's defense.

Once again, dont let the talking heads and media hot takes lead you astray. Listen to the 2 guys who know these prospects the best, Givony and Schmitz.

“Has good size for an NBA power forward, at 6-foot-10, 225 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. Saw most of his minutes at center this season and should be able to play both big man spots in the NBA,” wrote Jonathan Givony. “ Versatile offensive player. Made 37% of his 3-pointers and 75% of his free throws on a fairly large sample. Capable of attacking slower defenders from the perimeter or scoring in the post with either hand. Made more than 60% of his 2-point attempts. Competitive on both ends. Length and excellent timing made him an effective shot-blocker. Uses both hands to protect the rim. Also a productive rebounder.”


Schmitz had The Pelicans @ #13 as the perfect spot for him, so this write up is about them, but very telling:

If there's one big in this draft who perfectly complements Zion Williamson, it's Smith. He spaces the floor as a deadeye shooter while protecting the rim at a high level, two areas in which Williamson is still improving. Smith would allow Williamson to focus on working defenses as a mismatch driver, giving Zion more space to operate. Smith also has the versatility to fit alongside last year's top-10 pick, Jaxson Hayes.- SCHMITZ


So a big who can play NEXT to a Zion type player, but also can play next to a more traditional C like Hayes. Both experts say he can play both PF/C positions. Im telling you, listen to the guys who are the real experts on these players.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#802 » by m1chal » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:40 pm

I thought it would be a PG, Haliburton seemed like an obvious pick given the way picks went. Oh well. We get grades C- or D on all draft sites. Seems like a trend with 2019 ;)
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#803 » by Kerrsed » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:44 pm

And people need to stop with this, "We could have easily just re-signed Baynes" trash.

He is a UNRESTRICTED FA. He 100% controls where he plays. He said nice things about Phoenix and the Suns, but made it evident from day one that his time here was done. He doesnt want to be here and you cant force him to.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#804 » by Djedefre » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:49 pm

How many of you have actually watched Jalen in college? Not many, i suppose. He is not a bad pick, but it's Cam thing all over again - good player that we took while passing on better ones in the process. Simple as that.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#805 » by Saberestar » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:57 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Another thing to add about long term upside. It seems like it wasn't long ago people talked like we had this treasure chest of assets.

Tonight we didn't even have something we could trade for a 2nd rounder. Our backup guards are Payne and Carter.


Or its because we didnt value anyone in the 2nd round.

I like that we have added just one rookie to the roster.

We have had plenty of years (even the last one) trying to develop, trying to improve, teaching...and it's OK but that's not the way to winning consistently in the NBA, and that's finally our goal now.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#806 » by Kerrsed » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:16 pm

Funny thing is so many people have been all up on Christian Woods nuts, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball yet are hating on Jalen Smith, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball.

And yes, Wood is just as thin framed as Smith even after being in the NBA for more than a few years.

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And since i know some of the haters wont bother spending the time to look it up for themselves, here is a direct comparison of Woods last season in College (UNLV) and Smiths. Tell me what you see.

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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#807 » by Saberestar » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:25 pm

What I really like about Jalen Smith is that he looks PERFECT on paper next to Saric.
They can form a fantastic frontcourt coming from the bench.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#808 » by Bogyo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 pm

Djedefre wrote:How many of you have actually watched Jalen in college? Not many, i suppose. He is not a bad pick, but it's Cam thing all over again - good player that we took while passing on better ones in the process. Simple as that.


I have, and I liked him. However, I am sooo f'ng fed up with the "passing on better ones in the process" by Jones in drafts, trades and free agent acquisions I can't even describe it. Sorry, not sorry.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#809 » by NTB » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:29 pm

Bogyo wrote:
Djedefre wrote:How many of you have actually watched Jalen in college? Not many, i suppose. He is not a bad pick, but it's Cam thing all over again - good player that we took while passing on better ones in the process. Simple as that.


I have, and I liked him. However, I am sooo f'ng fed up with the "passing on better ones in the process" by Jones in drafts, trades and free agent acquisions I can't even describe it. Sorry, not sorry.


You always pass on better ones in every draft unless you are the #1 and choose LeBron like player.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#810 » by DroughtsOverPHX » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:29 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
bigfoot wrote:1) Smith is not $8M per year. More like $4.25M

2) This draft was not considered a very deep draft. There was no real consensus #1 pick and in a COVID non-NCCA tourney year, it was really hard to gauge value.

2) Do you know for sure who the Suns wanted around 10th? No ... you only know what Gambo and others may have predicated and mocks. Those people didn't have interviews or workouts with the prospects.

3) Jones didn't draft Ayton. That was McD.

4) I am actually way more hopeful with Jones going forward with our drafts. He's not blinded by the 18-year-old uber athletes with potential. Shooters, defenders, high IQ guys, older players, character all matter.


Actually this draft was considered deep, it just didnt have the first 2 tiers of Generational Talent and Sure Fire Superstar talent. Lots of starters and Longterm Roleplayers/Glue guys.


It didn't feel like it around here. If there were people here touting this as a deep draft, I don't remember.
I'm more surprised that it was an expectation by some that we would have a second round pick through buying it if we had to.

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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#811 » by NTB » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:33 pm

DroughtsOverPHX wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
bigfoot wrote:1) Smith is not $8M per year. More like $4.25M

2) This draft was not considered a very deep draft. There was no real consensus #1 pick and in a COVID non-NCCA tourney year, it was really hard to gauge value.

2) Do you know for sure who the Suns wanted around 10th? No ... you only know what Gambo and others may have predicated and mocks. Those people didn't have interviews or workouts with the prospects.

3) Jones didn't draft Ayton. That was McD.

4) I am actually way more hopeful with Jones going forward with our drafts. He's not blinded by the 18-year-old uber athletes with potential. Shooters, defenders, high IQ guys, older players, character all matter.


Actually this draft was considered deep, it just didnt have the first 2 tiers of Generational Talent and Sure Fire Superstar talent. Lots of starters and Longterm Roleplayers/Glue guys.


It didn't feel like it around here. If there were people here touting this as a deep draft, I don't remember.
I'm more surprised that it was an expectation by some that we would have a second round pick through buying it if we had to.

Our buffet currently only has sour grapes and spilled milk.


I am sure 70% of the people who is talking highly about other prospects than Jalen didn't know them 2 weeks ago. Nobody even talked about the draft and players this year as much as previous years. People started to watch some highlights and read some mocks and suddenly the draft is deep and has lots of good players that we passed on.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#812 » by BobbieL » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:34 pm

Kerrsed wrote:And people need to stop with this, "We could have easily just re-signed Baynes" trash.

He is a UNRESTRICTED FA. He 100% controls where he plays. He said nice things about Phoenix and the Suns, but made it evident from day one that his time here was done. He doesnt want to be here and you cant force him to.


Agreed. And I am good with that. I just hope if there is an S&T possibility, that happens. O'Connor mentioned maybe to the Pelicans - George HIll would be a cap match and they just drafted Kira Lewis and have Bledsoe - meaning Hill might be expendable. Not my first choice for rotational depth but wouldn't hurt
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#813 » by BobbieL » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:44 pm

Saberestar wrote:What I really like about Jalen Smith is that he looks PERFEC on paper next to Saric.
They can form a fantastic frontcourt coming from the bench.


I see all these comps for Smith and I am going way back - some 30 years or so to the Spider from Ga Tech - John Salley. Salley and Rodman went to the Pistons in the same draft and really just brought energy and defense to the team. Salley didn't have much offense if I recall other than stuff in the paint. But he blocked shots, rebounding, helped on defense, ran the floor, etc. If Smith does these things - that can be very beneficial to the team.

I have no idea if this was a good pick or not. I also don't believe NBA mock drafts - especially for this draft - meant a damn thing. Players were here, players were there. Bane went 30. Where did the Stanford kid Tyler go. If the Suns liked Smith - they liked Smith enough to take him at 10 and who knows - the SPurs at 11 have a retiring LaMarcus Aldridge - could they have used a 4. We just don't know who would have taken him where.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#814 » by Saberestar » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:46 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Funny thing is so many people have been all up on Christian Woods nuts, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball yet are hating on Jalen Smith, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball.

And yes, Wood is just as thin framed as Smith even after being in the NBA for more than a few years.

Image

And since i know some of the haters wont bother spending the time to look it up for themselves, here is a direct comparison of Woods 2 seasons in College (UNLV) and Smiths. Tell me what you see.

Spoiler:
Image

Image

Yeah, but do you know that he needed 4 full years until being a reliable player in the league?

That's my biggest fear about Smith. A lot of bigs usually need at least a couple years to establish themselves as a solid rotation players. Hopefully he is more NBA ready than Wood.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#815 » by BobbieL » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:52 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Well sh*t!

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter
Buy a pick Sarver!

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Its not worth it.

like $3M to buy the pick and then whatever the contact is. That $3M can be spent on an already experienced player, not an extreme gamble. We will wait to grab someone undrafted.


I agree. Not that I expect the Suns to have the next 7 years like the Warriors had from 2012-2019. But, if you look at the Warriors, they had Monte and Stephen Jackson and drafted Curry, (Epke Udoh failed), Klay, Dray and they tanked for Barnes. Than they realized they needed to rebalance so traded Monte for Bogut. They had veterans like Blake, than Iggy, out went Blake in comes Livingston.

Point being they had drafted players combined with veterans. Suns to me are at that point - they have the young core - now get some veterans to help out. Thats Chris Paul, that could be a combo guard and maybe another veteran forward/center type

This is the NBA - you win with experience. Not the best drafts. I think the 3m plus rookie contract can be used to get a guy that will help more. And the Suns with Paul need to make the playoffs
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#816 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:07 pm

Golanator wrote:Ghost, looks like Nate Hinton signed with Dallas :/

Then they definitely got a great high energy elite rebounding very defensively disruptive guard who can also shoot in Hinton. They basically got a young Patrick Beverley with Derrick White shooting. Good for them. They were one of the teams that clearly won in the draft! Us, We did ok though! Not great but ok! :wink:
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#817 » by Phnxsports » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:29 pm

Half asleep so I hope this make sense.

I do enjoy coming to the board most of the time because I love seeing peoples opinions and passion for the team. But man sometimes it's tough when people speak in such absolutes when there is really no reason to.

Ok so the media had stix graded lower. So what. They had Haliburton rated pretty high and apparently true NBA people didn't. Who saw Williams going so early? Does it mean Chicago was wrong? No. Maybe in a few years we will all be saying how dumb the top 3 were for not taking him. Why does everyone automatically say Haliburton was a steal because he fell but Smith is trash because he rose? No one knows yet.

What would people have said on this board if the Suns had taken Donovan instead of Jackson at four in 2017? Imagine the comments some of our board members would have written just because people judge based on mock draft information.

In the end was it surprising? Sure. But to all of those talking in absolutes like "we should have traded back" how do you know there was an interested team that wanted to trade? How do you know that maybe there was intel another team at 11,12,13 wanted Smith as well.

Every draft has busts taken high. Every draft has stars taken late. Enjoy the surprise and let it play out. Then we can judge.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#818 » by oddity » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm

Jalen Smith is a perfect fit and a fantastic draft pick for the Suns. I originally wanted him over Toppin, but because they were absolutely zero rumors about him after like September I kind of wrote him off as our selection.
Not only can he shoot threes, but he can move off the ball like a wing and get to his spots. He can catch and shoot naturally unlike any of the other highly touted bigs in this class. And the defense is exactly what we need. I really believe that we need an athletic 4 that can rotate over and block shots, esp against bigger teams. Jalen Smith fits this role perfectly, without having to compromise on shooting. He's still growing too. He is so agile and mobile with the potential to fill out a little more and get more explosive in the next few years. The icing on the cake is that he is such a likable kid from a seemingly strong family. Sounds like a dream to coach.

Now, onto looking at guards and wings in the FA to fill out our bench.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#819 » by BobbieL » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:43 pm

Phnxsports wrote:Half asleep so I hope this make sense.

I do enjoy coming to the board most of the time because I love seeing peoples opinions and passion for the team. But man sometimes it's tough when people speak in such absolutes when there is really no reason to.

Ok so the media had stix graded lower. So what. They had Haliburton rated pretty high and apparently true NBA people didn't. Who saw Williams going so early? Does it mean Chicago was wrong? No. Maybe in a few years we will all be saying how dumb the top 3 were for not taking him. Why does everyone automatically say Haliburton was a steal because he fell but Smith is trash because he rose? No one knows yet.

What would people have said on this board if the Suns had taken Donovan instead of Jackson at four in 2017? Imagine the comments some of our board members would have written just because people judge based on mock draft information.

In the end was it surprising? Sure. But to all of those talking in absolutes like "we should have traded back" how do you know there was an interested team that wanted to trade? How do you know that maybe there was intel another team at 11,12,13 wanted Smith as well.

Every draft has busts taken high. Every draft has stars taken late. Enjoy the surprise and let it play out. Then we can judge.


great post. agree totally. you are so right about mock drafts. if we knew what we knew, Jamal Murray would have been picked over Josh Jackson!
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#820 » by oddity » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:45 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Funny thing is so many people have been all up on Christian Woods nuts, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball yet are hating on Jalen Smith, you know the 6'10 215lb thin framed PF that plays defense and hits the 3 ball.

And yes, Wood is just as thin framed as Smith even after being in the NBA for more than a few years.

Image

And since i know some of the haters wont bother spending the time to look it up for themselves, here is a direct comparison of Woods last season in College (UNLV) and Smiths. Tell me what you see.

Image

I think these stats show Jalen Smith is even better! His feel for the game shows with lower turnovers, higher steals, and better shooting percentages. And also his frame is slightly bigger than Wood's(225 vs 215), which is a great sign.
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