Draft Night Part Deux - Knicks with Picks 25 and 33

[Black and Blue]

Some good undrafted prospects still out there.

-Dotson
-Tillie
-Josh Hall
-Ty-Shon Alexander
-Mason Jones

Dotson would probably be our best G right now. Tillie and Hall would be nice pickups too. Load up the Westchester team. Bos/Tor/Mia all had like 5+ rookies last year.

Most if not all have already signed two way deals with other teams

Oh well, just catching up. I think a good chance some of those guys carve out nice rolls.

Reading the tea leaves, the Knicks seemed to telegraph through this draft they don't want more projects. They had ample spots to pick up players and routinely punted. The two players they drafted are more polished than we typically see the Knicks draft.

In hindsight, as frustrated as I was watching the back half of the draft unfold, this makes sense. Thibs is a win-now coach. Leon must recognize our team is already littered with enough developmental prospects (It's kind of all we have), and his main focus is adding veteran leadership to the group. -Actual veteran leadership, not the Julius Randle kind.

The next few days should be active ones for the Knicks, especially if they do as they should do and renounce a lot of the bums from this past regime. Leon will really earn his paycheck now as wheeling and dealing with proven commodities is what he is known for. Fingers crossed it works out.

[Juco24]

The two knocks that this board had against Toppin is his age and his lack of playing defense...

1. You actually need a mature guy to come in and play in New York. Not everyone can handle it but I think Obi can. And when is 22/23 old??? My lord guys, really? And this notion from some that he's a rim runner - for those... have you ever seen him play? SMH
2. Thibs (and the investment of our staff) should be able to improve Obi's defense. If he does that, does anyone realize this guy is a total package and yes it is doable.

The guy on NBATV said it best - how did this guy fall to #8?

Now, I think the Knicks have to make a play for FVV as last night seems to have set that up. I'm not saying that we'll compete for a title anytime soon but we got closer to competing.

I truly would like to see a lineup of FVV/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Toppin and I'd expect Frank to be more of a 3-d type while Fred would be the orchestrater, Mitch rim running and Obi & RJ being the primary scorers. In theory it could work... and with that type of lineup, I think you could mask Obi's defensive problems and also mask Mitch & Frank's offensive problems.

Final thought: Quickly is a shooter... something we desperately need. I don't think he was a reach at all. Wanted Hampton, but oh well.

I agree with everything but masking Obi’s defense. The way the league is set up, you got to be a passable defender at least at your position if your team has a chance deep in the playoffs. If not you will be a liability. Not saying the Knicks are there because they are definitely not, but ideally Obi will be here when the Knicks do become a playoff team.

He has to be able to at least defend against small 4’s. At 6’9 it’s possible he can do that. He just looks trash now. I will keep saying this Thibs better improve his defense.

Yep... you're correct!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Most if not all have already signed two way deals with other teams

Oh well, just catching up. I think a good chance some of those guys carve out nice rolls.

Reading the tea leaves, the Knicks seemed to telegraph through this draft they don't want more projects. They had ample spots to pick up players and routinely punted. The two players they drafted are more polished than we typically see the Knicks draft.

In hindsight, as frustrated as I was watching the back half of the draft unfold, this makes sense. Thibs is a win-now coach. Leon must recognize our team is already littered with enough developmental prospects (It's kind of all we have), and his main focus is adding veteran leadership to the group. -Actual veteran leadership, not the Julius Randle kind.

The next few days should be active ones for the Knicks, especially if they do as they should do and renounce a lot of the bums from this past regime. Leon will really earn his paycheck now as wheeling and dealing with proven commodities is what he is known for. Fingers crossed it works out.

Yea, the writing is on the wall that they are looking for more ready players and don't want to take on projects. It was probably always going to go that way. Guess we will see how the rest of the roster shapes up and how it all goes.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Rozier?

Lolz. This last few days just gets better and better.

didn't say it was a good idea. just thinking if randle's burning a hole in the pocket, rozier could be a way to pick up and asset and have a steady vet hand at lead guard. it almost makes too much sense if charlotte's offering a pick. (watch them offer trash ass malik monk tho. KENTUCKY GANG! i've got this all written out in my mind.)

Seems entirely logical.

Tbh I’d prefer the flexibility of Rozier to throwing a longterm max to FVV or the attention-suck and culture shock of a Russ deal.

At least Rozier is lowkey and not longterm. But I really think Rose (like all new Knicks presidents under Dolan) wants to make a splash and would bring in John Wall if he had to.

omg. john wall. kentucky.

let's get boogie to back up mitch too.

[3toheadmelo]

Karim mane went undrafted. Leon Rose you know what to do

[WargamesX]

Some good undrafted prospects still out there.

-Dotson
-Tillie
-Josh Hall
-Ty-Shon Alexander
-Mason Jones

Dotson would probably be our best G right now. Tillie and Hall would be nice pickups too. Load up the Westchester team. Bos/Tor/Mia all had like 5+ rookies last year.

I think OKC got Josh Hall already

[Deeeez Knicks]

I'm not gonna lie - I was kinda hype for Bolmaro for the two seconds we had him.

Yea, I was not expecting that pick but actually got excited when they announced it

[Deeeez Knicks]

Some good undrafted prospects still out there.

-Dotson
-Tillie
-Josh Hall
-Ty-Shon Alexander
-Mason Jones

Dotson would probably be our best G right now. Tillie and Hall would be nice pickups too. Load up the Westchester team. Bos/Tor/Mia all had like 5+ rookies last year.

I think OKC got Josh Hall already

Damn you Presti

[GONYK]

Some good undrafted prospects still out there.

-Dotson
-Tillie
-Josh Hall
-Ty-Shon Alexander
-Mason Jones

Dotson would probably be our best G right now. Tillie and Hall would be nice pickups too. Load up the Westchester team. Bos/Tor/Mia all had like 5+ rookies last year.

I think OKC got Josh Hall already

Damn you Presti

Tillie went to the Grizz

[cgmw]

didn't say it was a good idea. just thinking if randle's burning a hole in the pocket, rozier could be a way to pick up and asset and have a steady vet hand at lead guard. it almost makes too much sense if charlotte's offering a pick. (watch them offer trash ass malik monk tho. KENTUCKY GANG! i've got this all written out in my mind.)

Seems entirely logical.

Tbh I’d prefer the flexibility of Rozier to throwing a longterm max to FVV or the attention-suck and culture shock of a Russ deal.

At least Rozier is lowkey and not longterm. But I really think Rose (like all new Knicks presidents under Dolan) wants to make a splash and would bring in John Wall if he had to.

omg. john wall. kentucky.

let's get boogie to back up mitch too.

I’m not kidding, Rozier might be the best option precisely because with his back against the wall (get it?) Leon might very well bring in John Wall. Never underestimate the desperation and delusion of a Dolan executive.

[3toheadmelo]

Rubio D’lo and Edwards. Hmm.. is Rubio coming off the bench?

[G_K_F]

New Orleans has a nice team and future.

remember when we were going to hire David Griffin but Dolan didn’t want to give him full power to fire the likes of Allan Houston so we instead hired...Steve Mills?

good times.

[MaseInYourFace]

Seems entirely logical.

Tbh I’d prefer the flexibility of Rozier to throwing a longterm max to FVV or the attention-suck and culture shock of a Russ deal.

At least Rozier is lowkey and not longterm. But I really think Rose (like all new Knicks presidents under Dolan) wants to make a splash and would bring in John Wall if he had to.

omg. john wall. kentucky.

let's get boogie to back up mitch too.

I’m not kidding, Rozier might be the best option precisely because with his back against the wall (get it?) Leon might very well bring in John Wall. Never underestimate the desperation and delusion of a Dolan executive.

Wall looks pretty good, but that contract though...yikes!

[cgmw]

Most if not all have already signed two way deals with other teams

Oh well, just catching up. I think a good chance some of those guys carve out nice rolls.

Reading the tea leaves, the Knicks seemed to telegraph through this draft they don't want more projects. They had ample spots to pick up players and routinely punted. The two players they drafted are more polished than we typically see the Knicks draft.

In hindsight, as frustrated as I was watching the back half of the draft unfold, this makes sense. Thibs is a win-now coach. Leon must recognize our team is already littered with enough developmental prospects (It's kind of all we have), and his main focus is adding veteran leadership to the group. -Actual veteran leadership, not the Julius Randle kind.

The next few days should be active ones for the Knicks, especially if they do as they should do and renounce a lot of the bums from this past regime. Leon will really earn his paycheck now as wheeling and dealing with proven commodities is what he is known for. Fingers crossed it works out.

Yeah it’s so funny to see this board go Gaga every year over this or that random prospect, as if they can’t see with their own eyes that Jim Dolan is not having a longterm rebuild, ever.

We hung on to Carmelo too long and it cost us major prospects. Then we botched KP’s development and shipped him off for the first whiff of a Durant flatulence in the general direction of the 5 boroughs. We overpaid Julius Randle and featured him at PG alongside a cast of highly paid vets, and then we intentionally won a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the season to drop our draft position out of top 3. Finally, he brings in a player agent and a “win now” veteran coach.

At what point does anyone in their right mind think this franchise has even the slightest interest in developing young players?

We got two of the oldest kids in the draft and they will have a short window to show out before management replaces them with veterans.

[Zenzibar]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-results-tracker-and-analysis-for-completed-rounds-1-and-2/

2020 NBA Draft grades: Pick-by-pick results tracker and analysis for completed Rounds 1 and 2

First Round
1. Minnesota Timberwolves: SG Anthony Edwards, Georgia

This is not a surprising pick. Edwards is a tremendous talent with a great pedigree. But I'm not enthusiastic, but I realize that any pick at the top of this flawed draft was not going to be perfect. He was not a great college player, and he drew some criticism for expressing a lack of passion for the game recently. Still, he has the potential to be a top-flight scorer. This is not what I would have done, but it is what a lot of franchises would have done. Grade: B+

2. Golden State Warriors: C James Wiseman, Memphis

It would have sounded a lot better this morning before the Klay Thompson news, but if you take a physical specimen like Wiseman and put him next to Stephen Curry, Klay and Draymond Green, and you can compete for another championship. But still, with the second pick, you get the player most physically prepared to make a big impact right away. Grade: A+


3. Charlotte Hornets: PG LaMelo Ball, USA

Ball was my No. 1 prospect in this draft class. This was a no-brainer. Charlotte has good guards, but Ball has the potential to be a star. There are lots of things to be improved -- defense first on the list -- but if he becomes the best version of himself, he will be the best player in this draft class. He is a 6-6/6-7 point guard who can play off the ball, but you want to keep the ball in his hands because of his creativity. Grade: A+

4. Chicago Bulls: SF Patrick Williams, Florida State

I understand the intrigue, but this is way higher than I would have taken Patrick Williams. He's 6-8, 225. He is big and strong with wide shoulders. He projects to be a 3-and-D guy, but he's not a great shooter yet. And he wasn't even the best 3-and-D player at Florida State this past season -- though he probably has more upside than Devin Vassell. Williams helped himself in the pre-draft process more than anyone else, though, and that wowed people. Grade: C-

5. Cleveland Cavaliers: SF Isaac Okoro, Auburn

This is not what I would have done with this pick, but I understand it. He's a tremendous prospect, especially what he can do on the defensive end. He also has great maturity and instincts. If he develops a reliable jump shot -- a big if right now -- he's going to be great. Grade: B+

6. Atlanta Hawks: C Onyeka Okongwu, USC

Okongwu is a player I had in the top 10 of my own big board, but this is a strange fit. In terms of front-court players, Obi Toppin is still on the board, and I preferred him. In terms of fit, I liked Tyrese Haliburton here. The Hawks have Clint Capela already as a defense-first center to protect the rim. Grade: C+

7. Detroit Pistons: PG Killian Hayes, France

Much like with Okongwu, I think Hayes is a good player but had others as better fits and prospects. Hayes is a trustworthy, creative, run-your-team type of guard, but he needs to develop a jump shot. If you believe he can develop that jumper, this pick makes a lot of sense. Grade: C+

8. New York Knicks: PF Obi Toppin, Dayton

The Knicks obviously need a lot, but that fan base will love this guy. They desperately want something to be excited about. Toppin can be that. I would not have taken him first overall, but he should not have dropped this far and should be the favorite for rookie of the year. Grade: A+


9. Washington Wizards: SF Deni Avdija, Israel

Most people I spoke with thought that Avdija was the best international prospect in this draft. I had Toppin ahead of Avdija, and many people in the NBA told me I was wrong for that. But here he was for the Wizards to grab him. There are some mixed reviews on Avdija coming from European scouts, but this makes sense because they probably weren't expecting him to be available. Grade: B+

10. Phoenix Suns: C Jalen Smith, Maryland

It's a surprise on every level. I don't understand it. I thought I liked Jalen Smith more than most, but I had him in the late-teens. But not in the top 10, and not on a team that already has DeAndre Ayton. He's more of a stretch five than a stretch four, and that's simply not a position of need or a great value. But Phoenix does have a history of doing things that don't make a lot of sense. Grade: D-

[HerSports85]

We might have got a sleeper in Quickley, been watching film on him this morning and he's definitely what we needed. A two-way guard that has a 6'8 wingspan and a 59.5% TS. He's also a gym and film junkie. Some Kentucky fans have said he was the best guard on the team, Maxey was just more popular.

On paper, I like he pick. Do I think we could've got him at 33? I don't know, the draft was unpredictable and if he was our guy I see nothing wrong with just going to get him.

he's also been working out with mahmoud abdul-rauf for the last few months.

[aq_ua]

I think it’s a clear signal that we’re going to fill a fair amount of the rotation with vets and there’s a desire to see what we have with the young guys on the roster before bringing in too many new young faces. I’m guessing Taj and Bullock are coming back, and Payton might even return if we don’t go after FVV, Westbrook or Conley.

C: Mitch / Gibson
PF: Randle / Toppin
SF: Bullock / Knox
SG: RJ / Quickley
PG: Payton / DSJ / Frank

We keep some optionality for mid-season moves when hopefully our guys show enough to
be value positive, and if not, waived. Either way, it’s going to be a development year and still a number of roster moves needed over time.

Still have Free Agency. That’s just not the roster they’re going to start the year with.

Didn’t they already indicate Payton was gone?

They’ll throw the bag at FVV and if they miss, it’ll be Russ for sure. I also suspect Randle is gone, especially since Charlotte doesn’t need Rozier.

i wouldn't be shocked if randle were gone FOR rozier. charlotte would have to be sending something with that though.

I get that’s what we want to think - that the youth movement will continue and there’s a commitment to playing our recent top draft picks major minutes. But that doesn’t jibe with the decision to trade away the 33rd pick. I think we are going for a meaningful number of bets in the rotation, with the younger players earning minutes along the way. We’re not throwing Tobin out there as our starting 4 alongside two sophomores, I just don’t see that.

[sol537]

No go get FVV (or Conley) and Bogdan Bogdanovic (S&T for Randle & late picks?)

[Knox]

No go get FVV (or Conley) and Bogdan Bogdanovic (S&T for Randle & late picks?)

Lonzo would do nothing bet help Obi Toppin develop and put him in his spots to succeed. This team is young we need a playmaker to help get them going. Lonzo would be the cheapest route to doing this with high upside.

[G_K_F]

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