Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8

[thebuzzardman]

one of my concerns w/ Obi is actually his athleticism. the strength and conditioning staff needs to work w/ him to loosen his hips (thus improving lateral quickness) and lowering his center of gravity

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Looked less about lack of strength and more about not being that comfortable in the post. Probably could’ve spun baseline but chose a baby jumper which to me shows lack of experience.

Too much neck strength>>>>>>>>>not enough knee strength. F*co KP

[TKKnicks1]

I am loving the pick. The man can definitely play. I see a lot of Amare and Blake in him. However, is anyone else concerned with spacing issues with Obi and Mitch? Obi does have an outside game but I feel his lob game will suffer due to Mitch always clogging the paint.

[blueNorange]

Fun fact: Obi Toppin is 19 (nineteen) months older than Kevin Knox.

fun fact: brandon roy was also a 22 year old rookie.

[Chanel Bomber]

I feel like we saw how far teams can go with offensively versatile all star bigs with a weak defensive reputation in the playoffs with Jokic. Obi doesn't need to turn into Bam Adebayo, he just needs to be smart enough to make his rotation. He could probably make the adjustment in that regard particularly with Thibs preparing him with deep scouting reports and gameplans. Will he ever have his Kevin Love moment? Guarding a guy like Curry in isolation at the three point line to win the championship? He could, and that's good enough for now.

His fit on offense is a no-brainer. He can literally play everyone's role. When going up against a good defense, we might have a guy that can just give it to the other team any way they want it.

As for Randle and Mitch, there's space on the team for a 3-man rotation. Knox imo is the odd one out.

While this point is valid, I think it's a mistake to think in terms of the playoffs. Knicks should collect assets, try to make it fit. They'll be a lot of moves and if Obi is decent but not great, could be good enough to move in a few years.

It's going to take a bit to contend, no matter who was drafted

We don't know how good Obi will be. He might turn out to be ROY for all we know

That's not an indicator of how good he'll be either. MCW, Tyreke Evans and Wiggins all won ROY.

[Clyde_Style]

While this point is valid, I think it's a mistake to think in terms of the playoffs. Knicks should collect assets, try to make it fit. They'll be a lot of moves and if Obi is decent but not great, could be good enough to move in a few years.

It's going to take a bit to contend, no matter who was drafted

We don't know how good Obi will be. He might turn out to be ROY for all we know

That's not an indicator of how good he'll be either. MCW, Tyreke Evans and Wiggins all won ROY.

Um, those are the exception to the rule. Winning ROY usually means you've got yourselves a perennial All-Star

http://www.espn.com/nba/history/awards/_/id/35

you're working extra hard at this today. You depressed or something?

[knickstape4ever]

started playing w/ Obi in 2k....pretty, pretty good

[WargamesX]

Maturity and reasoning skills? LMFAO ok. Markell Fultz was supposed to be a star based off his college performance and he fell off a cliff. Donavan Mitchell was supposed to be a project and his showed out the moment he set foot on an NBA court. Yet Im the immature one for using history to judge the way I see things. Same could be said about Booker and Herro. Like I said you can take things whichever way you want but Im willing to give him until the first few months of the season because I pass my judgement.

Dropping other players names and saying give Obi a chance isn’t a good argument. No one said he’s a scrub, they are saying he has red flags and flaws that could mean he is a scrub.

Anyhow at least your seem to have calmed down.

Triple C using empty stats did a better job defending the Obi pick. You should copy his approach, maybe it’ll get you a promotion.

God, I’m enjoying the verbal sparring you two ladies are having. I think your cycles are synced.

What kind of toxic masculinity is this? You want to insult us so you say we are having our periods? Now that is honestly the most pathetic thing I seen on this board and we’re Knicks fans

[Context]

definitely not wasting my energy debating with dudes obsessed over things they shouldn't- related to Obi...
Obi was the 2nd best player in the draft with a chance to be a super star IMO...

One of the best picks by the Knicks all time...

and age is just a number...its all about what you "DO".

[Chanel Bomber]

We don't know how good Obi will be. He might turn out to be ROY for all we know

That's not an indicator of how good he'll be either. MCW, Tyreke Evans and Wiggins all won ROY.

Um, those are the exception to the rule. Winning ROY usually means you've got yourselves a perennial All-Star

http://www.espn.com/nba/history/awards/_/id/35

you're working extra hard at this today. You depressed or something?

First of all, maybe. Maybe not. But that's neither here nor there.

In all seriousness, I'm not negative about the pick for the sake of being negative. I would have been ecstatic about the pick had we selected Haliburton. I was pretty outspoken days and weeks before the draft about how felt drafting Toppin would be a huge mistake. I explained why. The why is actually the reason why I knew the Knicks were targeting him in particular. I've been very consistent with this from a rational standpoint, and I don't think putting this on depression is fair on your part. It's just as dismissive as the "crazy" talk, and you're more empathetic than this. I could also share my psychological analysis of you rationalizing this pick, but I don't think it would be appropriate.

I want the Knicks to succeed. I just happen to think that this draft set this franchise further back. You can disagree with this, but don't blame it on my mental health. I keep harping on this because it's symptomatic of a pattern that has hurt this franchise for the past decade plus, and will keep haunting this franchise until things change.

I hope to be wrong in this particular instance, and will find joy if I am.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He's not a stretch 4, and he should not be "spacing the floor for Mitch" we took him 8th and were willing to trade up to get him, they are viewing him as an offensive option. If anything look at how John Collins is used, that is essentially what we should be hoping for from Toppin. The kid is an inside-out threat, relegating him to being a stretch 4 is a waste of a pick.

interesting take. but what exactly do you think Obi is going to be able to do inside? If mitch is the guy that sets the high pick for the PG then Obi needs to get out of the paint so Mitch and the PG can run pick and roll. Obi is not going to be able to post up against stonger NBA players like he did in college, he is listed at 220 pounds and he is not going to get much bigger since he is already 22 yrs old. Obi doesnt' have any face up game and he doesnt shoot the midrange shot at all. which is an important shot needed to become a shot creator.

Collins is the guys that runs pick and roll and shoots. That's not going to be Obi's role here if he starts with Mitch. Thibs said in the modern NBA you need 4 out on the perimeter and 1 inside. Since RJ and Mitch can't shoot well that means Obi is going to have to play more on the perimeter than he did in college.

See, this is the disconnect, you're viewing this as Mitch, RJ and Obi, when in fact it's RJ and Obi as the players who everyone else will be fitting around. They drafted Obi because they think he'll be able to come in and score right away, and to do that he needs the same space you're allowing for Mitch. Also, you're wrong in the sense that he won't post up, the NBA is switch happy and there could be situations where a much smaller player ends up on the rollman, would you rather Obi try posting up a 200-215lbs wing, or Mitch trying the same, who is more likely to have success against a switch if the roll is stopped.


They didn't draft this guy to be a stretch 4 and hang out around the 3 point line all game, he's not even going to be a high percentage shooter right away. What will happen in the long term is that if Mitch can't shoot they will move him, it's that simple, they were willing to trade up to get this guy, and you think he wont have the offense catered to him, but instead we'll make our inside-out threat PF hang out at the 3 point line all game so Mitch can just roll to the rim?

[Stannis]

Fun fact: Obi Toppin is 19 (nineteen) months older than Kevin Knox.

Knox should have stayed in school for another 2-3 years.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

How does he work with Mitch? The Mitch diehards on here need to answer this question, because we can't have Obi only being used as a floor spacer to accommodate Mitch's need to be in the paint, Obi was drafted because of his offense and to maximize that he needs to be able to use his full range of skills from PnR, to post ups to faceups. If the idea is to have him parked outside the 3 point line on every play then this is a wasted pick, if we're going to allow him to play like he did at Dayton then Mitch is going to need to be able to shoot at some point to help spacing.

I don't think Obi is a smallball 5 right now either, he's just not strong enough or heavy enough, so how he works with Mitch will decide what happens with Mitch.

stop creating problems, randle/robinson never worked because randle refuses to pass out of double teams and can't shoot from the perimeter.

by all accounts obi is good at passing out of double teams and has range on his jumpshot, they won't be clogging the paint. besides i don't even see obi starting unless they get rid of randle.

There will be a spacing issue between them, because Obi excels around the rim, he uses the threat of his shot to open up areas of his offense, he wasn't a high volume three point shooter yet you all want to turn him into Davis Bertans?


Obi will start, you don't draft a 22 year old PF, and try to trade up to get him just to bring him off the bench for a guy you're not keeping

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Fun fact: Obi Toppin is 19 (nineteen) months older than Kevin Knox.

Knox should have stayed in school for another 2-3 years.

He's made > $8m in salary instead.

[Knicks Byke]

How does he work with Mitch? The Mitch diehards on here need to answer this question, because we can't have Obi only being used as a floor spacer to accommodate Mitch's need to be in the paint, Obi was drafted because of his offense and to maximize that he needs to be able to use his full range of skills from PnR, to post ups to faceups. If the idea is to have him parked outside the 3 point line on every play then this is a wasted pick, if we're going to allow him to play like he did at Dayton then Mitch is going to need to be able to shoot at some point to help spacing.

I don't think Obi is a smallball 5 right now either, he's just not strong enough or heavy enough, so how he works with Mitch will decide what happens with Mitch.

stop creating problems, randle/robinson never worked because randle refuses to pass out of double teams and can't shoot from the perimeter.

by all accounts obi is good at passing out of double teams and has range on his jumpshot, they won't be clogging the paint. besides i don't even see obi starting unless they get rid of randle.

There will be a spacing issue between them, because Obi excels around the rim, he uses the threat of his shot to open up areas of his offense, he wasn't a high volume three point shooter yet you all want to turn him into Davis Bertans?


Obi will start, you don't draft a 22 year old PF, and try to trade up to get him just to bring him off the bench for a guy you're not keeping

he's not starting unless Randle gets traded.

[Chanel Bomber]

How does he work with Mitch? The Mitch diehards on here need to answer this question, because we can't have Obi only being used as a floor spacer to accommodate Mitch's need to be in the paint, Obi was drafted because of his offense and to maximize that he needs to be able to use his full range of skills from PnR, to post ups to faceups. If the idea is to have him parked outside the 3 point line on every play then this is a wasted pick, if we're going to allow him to play like he did at Dayton then Mitch is going to need to be able to shoot at some point to help spacing.

I don't think Obi is a smallball 5 right now either, he's just not strong enough or heavy enough, so how he works with Mitch will decide what happens with Mitch.

stop creating problems, randle/robinson never worked because randle refuses to pass out of double teams and can't shoot from the perimeter.

by all accounts obi is good at passing out of double teams and has range on his jumpshot, they won't be clogging the paint. besides i don't even see obi starting unless they get rid of randle.

There will be a spacing issue between them, because Obi excels around the rim, he uses the threat of his shot to open up areas of his offense, he wasn't a high volume three point shooter yet you all want to turn him into Davis Bertans?


Obi will start, you don't draft a 22 year old PF, and try to trade up to get him just to bring him off the bench for a guy you're not keeping

It's only a matter of time before they trade Mitch. Maybe a year from now, but Mitch is gone.

[Clyde_Style]

That's not an indicator of how good he'll be either. MCW, Tyreke Evans and Wiggins all won ROY.

Um, those are the exception to the rule. Winning ROY usually means you've got yourselves a perennial All-Star

http://www.espn.com/nba/history/awards/_/id/35

you're working extra hard at this today. You depressed or something?

First of all, maybe. Maybe not. But that's neither here nor there.

In all seriousness, I'm not negative about the pick for the sake of being negative. I would have been ecstatic about the pick had we selected Haliburton. I was pretty outspoken days and weeks before the draft about how felt drafting Toppin would be a huge mistake. I explained why. The why is actually the reason why I knew the Knicks were targeting him in particular. I've been very consistent with this from a rational standpoint, and I don't think putting this on depression is fair on your part. It's just as dismissive as the "crazy" talk, and you're more empathetic than this. I could also share my psychological analysis of you rationalizing this pick, but I don't think it would be appropriate.

I want the Knicks to succeed. I just happen to think that this draft set this franchise further back. You can disagree with this, but don't blame it on my mental health. I keep harping on this because it's symptomatic of a pattern that has hurt this franchise for the past decade plus, and will keep haunting this franchise until things change.

I hope to be wrong in this particular instance, and will find joy if I am.

Nobody called you crazy. You did seem very dark though. Big diff, not trying to drag you though. Just asking

Anyway, let's see what happens is all I can say at this point. Obi is part of the plan

[Triple C]

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[Worst_to_First]

There will be a spacing issue between them, because Obi excels around the rim, he uses the threat of his shot to open up areas of his offense, he wasn't a high volume three point shooter yet you all want to turn him into Davis Bertans?


Obi will start, you don't draft a 22 year old PF, and try to trade up to get him just to bring him off the bench for a guy you're not keeping

I think the best way to play Obi is how we played Amare when he first got here. Him at the 5 with 3 wings (Gallo, Ill Will, Fields) and a point guard.

[Knicks Byke]

watched a scouting report on young fella on YT and my guys defense is super sus, probably looks worse than randle. Way too stiff, bad positioning, not low enough.

[TheGreenArrow]

Obi Toppin Folks Obi Toppin!!!!