Trade Thread #6: I Wood Walk 500 Myles

[Jammer]

If we get turner and dougie buckets who else can we target to fill out the bench

Too much salary coming back. If they sign anyone else they are in the lux tax. Really don't think that the Celtics want to take back 25,333,000 even if they indlude Carson Edwards with Hayward because the Celtics would be at 131,730,895 for 13 players without including Green, Ojeleye, Waters or Tacko (if they didn't keep them as 2 ways). So, it's too much money. The luxe tax starts at 132,627,000 so might as well stay under that.

Turner's 18 Mil salary is not good value in this market. Needs at least one 1rst Round Pick to offset Hayward's higher production, despite his injury history. But I am not crazy about that. Would probably want a second round pick as well. But if they take Edwards they can keep the 2nd round pick.

Dougie Buckets is a great shooter, but really a PF on defense. So you are choosing between him and Grant Williams.

The value pieces that could come back from Indiana are:

T. J. Warren 11.75 M in 2021 plus signed for one more season. Indiana does not want to lose him.
Turner if accompanied by at least one 1rst Round pick, if they take Edwards with Hayward
McDermott by himself with a 1rst Round pick

That's the real problem. Indiana doesn't have much to give back to start with, and as a small market team, they are hesistant to include their draft picks, but that's really what's necessary due to the salaries of the guys they'd be willing to let go.

No we are getting turner back I’m pretty confident

But McDermott's salary is too much when there is a chance to stay under the tax line.

So, the Pacers have to ADD something to Turner. Even a 1rst Round pick that actually conveys, or perhaps Aaron Holiday. Still would want the Pacers to take on Carsen Edwards. Hayward is clearly a better player than Turner. Has to have a 1rst Round Pick, or NO SIGN & Trade. It's what they call a Deal Breaker. And if you ask me, for what the Pacers are sending, Dougie Buckets with Turner is too much salary to take back for their production level. Pacers supposedly offered 4 years 100 Million versus the Knicks 2 years 40 Million or perhaps a bit more. But Gordon can't get there without a sign & trade, and I wouldn't give it to him without the unprotected 1rst Round Pick delivered within the next 3 years (no more of this 7 year out delivery B.S.).

[MagicBagley18]

I did answer you. I said Tatum plays selfish basketball down the stretch of close games, which to me says he prioritizes stats and image over winning. Thats something Harden would do. MJ, LeBron, those guys...they will do whatever it takes to win even if it means them not taking a shot.

I think we can agree that Smart is the embodiment of a hard nosed competitive player. The LeBron's and Kobe's of the world combine Smart's insane competitiveness with world class talent. Tatum combines his superb talent with the competitiveness of Semi Ojeleye.

OK. So you think Tatum hogs the ball, at the end of games?
Tatum always struck me as someone who willing passes for the better shot.

Thing is, he makes good clutch shots. Tatum is our best player.
He's not that much of a PG, but he plays well.

What would you expect him to be, and do?
And remember, there is no perfect player. I believe that Michael Jordan said that.

I compared Tatum to Harden. Thats not really an insult. I said he has superb talent. I think he lacks the competitiveness to be the centerpiece of a *championship* team. If the goal is to be a good playoff team every year, than Tatum is your man. Just like Harden and Westbrook.

Man you’re gonna be pissed in like a week when we have Tatum AND harden

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

[The Corey's]

Calling it a night. Hayward aint about to keep me up all night.

[DoubleHappiness]

Also, not going back through the thread because was video chatting w/ friends while tracking on Twitter. But even in what was supposed to be a down year dudes are getting paid. Smart's contract looks GENIUS now.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Speaking of humblebum war stories, In odd news I have achilles tendonitis. I think if I tried to play ball it would probably pop. Getting old is hilarious

I used to be able to get pretty high above the rim.

I'm 35 now and my achilles is sore today from going up and down the ladder for the last two days while putting up Christmas lights - then playing a lazy ass round of disc golf. Getting old is indeed lots of fun.

Joys of life

[ConstableGeneva]

What's the hold-up?

A) Hayward and Pacers can't agree on the contract.
B) Ainge and Pritchard can't agree on the assets coming back.
C) A third team.
D) Hayward waiting on what the Knicks will do.
E) Tatum is not a winner.

[MagicBagley18]

Read on Twitter

The f’ing Knicks better not mess this up...would have to be 60/2 or 3/90 for him to go there. He desperately wants indy

[FeedReed]

Remember when John Wall and the Wizards were the hot team in the east? Tatum is gonna be the next John Wall. Since you seem to document all my posts, feel free to make note of this one too. Celtics will not win a title with him on the roster. He's about stats and image, not winning.

completely agree with you. i’ve never been a fan of tatums passionless, ego driven, inconsistent game. they’ll never win 18 with him as #1 option. i would have loved to see your trade proposal come to fruition, and then the c’s can re-sign hayward. no doubt they’d be a better, more together team.

Hard to tell if you are making fun of him or firing him up.

i honestly agree with him. i don’t like tatums makeup.it was frustrating watching him try to do too much island ball every game. that and all of smarts chucking irritated the heck out of me. i wonder if all of smarts chucking though was due to watching tatum do it so much he said screw it, i will too l. either way both of those things drove me crazy, but at least smart is a world class competitor. brown to me is the #1 on the team, and the team should be building more around him.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Also, not going back through the thread because was video chatting w/ friends while tracking on Twitter. But even in what was supposed to be a down year dudes are getting paid. Smart's contract looks GENIUS now.

Yeah those deals are unreal

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

So essentially...

[fallguy]

completely agree with you. i’ve never been a fan of tatums passionless, ego driven, inconsistent game. they’ll never win 18 with him as #1 option. i would have loved to see your trade proposal come to fruition, and then the c’s can re-sign hayward. no doubt they’d be a better, more together team.

Hard to tell if you are making fun of him or firing him up.

i honestly agree with him. i don’t like tatums makeup.it was frustrating watching him try to do too much island ball every game. that and all of smarts chucking irritated the heck out of me. i wonder if all of smarts chucking though was due to watching tatum do it so much he said screw it, i will too l. either way both of those things drove me crazy, but at least smart is a world class competitor. brown to me is the clear #1 on the team, and the team should be building more around him.

what is happening

[MrGreenRunsDeep]

F****** u Hayward .. ruined my day

[SuperDeluxe]

completely agree with you. i’ve never been a fan of tatums passionless, ego driven, inconsistent game. they’ll never win 18 with him as #1 option. i would have loved to see your trade proposal come to fruition, and then the c’s can re-sign hayward. no doubt they’d be a better, more together team.

Hard to tell if you are making fun of him or firing him up.

i honestly agree with him. i don’t like tatums makeup.it was frustrating watching him try to do too much island ball every game. that and all of smarts chucking irritated the heck out of me. i wonder if all of smarts chucking though was due to watching tatum do it so much he said screw it, i will too l. either way both of those things drove me crazy, but at least smart is a world class competitor. brown to me is the clear #1 on the team, and the team should be building more around him.

At least it sounds reasoned when you say it. I don't agree at all but I feel I can have an adult conversation with you.

[SMTBSI]

Spoiler:

Too much salary coming back. If they sign anyone else they are in the lux tax. Really don't think that the Celtics want to take back 25,333,000 even if they indlude Carson Edwards with Hayward because the Celtics would be at 131,730,895 for 13 players without including Green, Ojeleye, Waters or Tacko (if they didn't keep them as 2 ways). So, it's too much money. The luxe tax starts at 132,627,000 so might as well stay under that.

Turner's 18 Mil salary is not good value in this market. Needs at least one 1rst Round Pick to offset Hayward's higher production, despite his injury history. But I am not crazy about that. Would probably want a second round pick as well. But if they take Edwards they can keep the 2nd round pick.

Dougie Buckets is a great shooter, but really a PF on defense. So you are choosing between him and Grant Williams.

The value pieces that could come back from Indiana are:

T. J. Warren 11.75 M in 2021 plus signed for one more season. Indiana does not want to lose him.
Turner if accompanied by at least one 1rst Round pick, if they take Edwards with Hayward
McDermott by himself with a 1rst Round pick

That's the real problem. Indiana doesn't have much to give back to start with, and as a small market team, they are hesistant to include their draft picks, but that's really what's necessary due to the salaries of the guys they'd be willing to let go.

No we are getting turner back I’m pretty confident

But McDermott's salary is too much when there is a chance to stay under the tax line.

Actually we're good. Turner + McDermott + Ojeleye + Waters:


34.379100 - Walker
23.883928 - Brown
18.000000 - Turner
13.446428 - Smart
9.897120 - Tatum
7.333333 - McDermott
5.000000 - Theis
3.631200 - Langford
3.458400 - Nesmith
2.498760 - G.Williams
2.029920 - R.Williams
2.035800 - Pritchard
1.752950 - Ojeleye
1.517981 - Edwards
1.445697 - Waters

1.039080 - Yabusele
0.092857 - Jackson

131.442554 - Total
-22.302554 - Capspace
1.184446 - Taxspace


No using the MLE obviously, without further moves.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

I mean Celtics and Pacers have been working on this for over a week. Give them time!

[Parliament10]

I did answer you. I said Tatum plays selfish basketball down the stretch of close games, which to me says he prioritizes stats and image over winning. Thats something Harden would do. MJ, LeBron, those guys...they will do whatever it takes to win even if it means them not taking a shot.

I think we can agree that Smart is the embodiment of a hard nosed competitive player. The LeBron's and Kobe's of the world combine Smart's insane competitiveness with world class talent. Tatum combines his superb talent with the competitiveness of Semi Ojeleye.

OK. So you think Tatum hogs the ball, at the end of games?
Tatum always struck me as someone who willing passes for the better shot.

Thing is, he makes good clutch shots. Tatum is our best player.
He's not that much of a PG, but he plays well.

What would you expect him to be, and do?
And remember, there is no perfect player. I believe that Michael Jordan said that.

I compared Tatum to Harden. Thats not really an insult. I said he has superb talent. I think he lacks the competitiveness to be the centerpiece of a *championship* team. If the goal is to be a good playoff team every year, than Tatum is your man. Just like Harden and Westbrook.

Hmmm.
You know that Tatum is only 22. These guys are in the 30's.
To me, I can't see how you predict what a 22 year old, is gonna do, or gonna be.

In comparison. No of these guys won a Championship at age 22.:
MJ, Kobe, Lebron. Neither did Harden or Westbrook.

BUT, all of them that did win it = didn't do it by themselves.
It's a Team sport.

MJ, Kobe, Lebron, all took over. But, they all had high quality players right next to them.
Agreed?

[jumblin]

Hard to tell if you are making fun of him or firing him up.

i honestly agree with him. i don’t like tatums makeup.it was frustrating watching him try to do too much island ball every game. that and all of smarts chucking irritated the heck out of me. i wonder if all of smarts chucking though was due to watching tatum do it so much he said screw it, i will too l. either way both of those things drove me crazy, but at least smart is a world class competitor. brown to me is the clear #1 on the team, and the team should be building more around him.

At least it sounds reasoned when you say it. I don't agree at all but I feel I can have an adult conversation with you.

90% of the replies I get are one line 8th grade insults. Whos the kid in the room?

[fallguy]

F****** u Hayward .. ruined my day

It's not Hayward holding things up.

[hugepatsfan]

FYI for a 4/100m year extension, the first year salary is most likely 22.5ish assuming it's a standard contract with regular salary increases. Obviously the number might be different if it's a declining contract or something.

Both us and them are right up against luxury tax line if a Hayward deal happens. Have to imagine that it'd be backloaded.

One thing to remember too is that we can offer 8% raises. They can only offer 5%. So a deal with us would be a little more backloaded than one with them.