Rumors and Discussion Thread (NYK and NBA) IV

[Jeff Van Gully]

ok, maybe we don't need bogie. give me my fred or give the keys to the kids. burks is already gonna take too many minutes (but could be a nice marcus morris-like trade chip if he repeats last season).

[Capn'O]

I hope we don't get Hayward and FVV. Nothing against them as players but we have our young forwards (I consider RJ a forward) that we need to play and Hayward's going to get in the way of that. He's not the final answer. $25+ million for FVV is just too much. We're not going anywhere. Why have that money tied to us as we build up the team?

But more than that, Dolan has had a policy since his arrival that he would never lose out on a player due to money. It's a terrible policy. It's why we signed Allan Houston for 100 mil when nobody else was offering more than 70, it's why Isiah Thomas ran the Knicks up to a $140 million payroll when the cap was around $60 million, and it's why more recently we dropped insane deals on Joakim Noah and the short contract players last season. If we wanted a guy, just overpay him.

Here we are, sitting as the only team with enough cap space for the opportunity to pay these two players more than their market value outright. AKA, other than their own teams; playoff teams for which how they play this decision could potentially affect whether they make the first, second, or championship rounds of the playoffs. Our highest outcome is maybe scraping into the playoffs for a first round sweep and then being tapped out due to the contracts we've signed.

In a capped league, you - not occasionally but often - have to make a hard choice on numbers if you want to be in a position to keep moving forward. Look at the Warriors - the reason they were able to build a dynasty was they had Steph Curry on a ridiculous sweetheart deal for the early part of their runs and Klay and Dray on their rookie deal for the initial build. Once they even had to pay him superstar market value their window closed. There just isn't enough to go around to hold bad deals. Dolan's early philosophy was team suicide if you want to compete regularly. Not only does it saddle teams with payroll but it attracts grifters to the team who see that they can leverage this philosophy for a hot payday. We now have the chance to show the world that we've moved past tossing money around like drunken sailors in a whorehouse. Non-moves today would show the world that the Knicks are finally ready to move forward.

[NYKnickerbocker]

Damn Fred hurry up so we can officially end this ****

[ScienceOfLosing]

Everyone we cut still jobless lol. Mills and perry were just handing out free money

They will have a hard time finding teams that pay half of the money we paid them.

The sad thing is that playing for the Knicks dumping your value. You saw: Rose, Melo, Kanter, Mario, Vonleh. Too much spotlight on the fails of your game.

Yeah, can't argue that but I can say if we continue to change the culture and start having some talent (development), you will see FA's come. They all want to win, many would love to play in NY, but few of them want to come to a bad team. I think we are headed in that direction.

The Obi pick could be great addition to your youth and that Dallas pick might end up being our star if the cards fall right (fingers crossed.)

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wasn't a similar thing said about Davis?

Anyone know of an angle here?

Though, honestly, not sure what value Davis and Burks have to a team, other than some kind of cap relief.

Meaning, it seems their S&T value is sort of limited.

On the one hand, seems like Leon & Aller have something cooking. On the other hand, seems like they are doing slightly fancier Mills\Perry

[br7knicks]

Some people don't get jokes

I want nothing to do with wall. Unless Washington attached every FRP they have, wall should not wear a Knicks uniform. Would rather deal with randle for one more year than take on walls contract with at least 4 FRPs

[br7knicks]

At least with WB you know the kind of player you get. We legit don't know the state of John wall, whose game is predicated on speed and a strong achilles

[N Y K]

I just want to be excited about winning one day. That's all. My bar is very low.

[SelbyCobra]

One first for a guy who hasn't played in 2 years and is making 40+mil for the next 3 years?

I wouldn't even take Westbrook for just 1 pick, Wall for 1 pick is lunacy.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

2023 draft is stacked. That pick is huge. Especially considering Washington a middling team at best.

But go ahead please tell me your grand plans for all our cap space. Giannis... lillard... who else we signing to the next banana boat?

If you want to take on bad contracts for picks, you can do a lot better than 1 pick for 130 million in cap over 3 years

Thought that would be evident, but I guess not.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, this is basic, accepted math around league FOs. The average monetary value of the production from a top-3 pick in the draft is somewhere around $50-60M, with the net profit after salary in the $20M-$30M range, IIRC.

Anything after top-3 or so drops off precipitously. I know we all understand and appreciate the sentiment behind making a move like this - hell, I proposed a Wall deal last night on here - but $130M for a single pick in a draft 3 drafts away without any assurance of actual positioning or player availability is a recklessly ignorant.

[NewYorkPride85]

Some people don't get jokes

I want nothing to do with wall. Unless Washington attached every FRP they have, wall should not wear a Knicks uniform. Would rather deal with randle for one more year than take on walls contract with at least 4 FRPs

I would gladly take on Walls contract for 2021 & 2023 unprotected FRPs. Add that to the fact that the Wizards will be horrible next year and I’m more inclined to do it knowing the pick next year would be a lottery pick.

[thebuzzardman]

I hope we don't get Hayward and FVV. Nothing against them as players but we have our young forwards (I consider RJ a forward) that we need to play and Hayward's going to get in the way of that. He's not the final answer. $25+ million for FVV is just too much. We're not going anywhere. Why have that money tied to us as we build up the team?

But more than that, Dolan has had a policy since his arrival that he would never lose out on a player due to money. It's a terrible policy. It's why we signed Allan Houston for 100 mil when nobody else was offering more than 70, it's why Isiah Thomas ran the Knicks up to a $140 million payroll when the cap was around $60 million, and it's why more recently we dropped insane deals on Joakim Noah and the short contract players last season. If we wanted a guy, just overpay him.

Here we are, sitting as the only team with enough cap space for the opportunity to pay these two players more than their market value outright. AKA, other than their own teams; playoff teams for which how they play this decision could potentially affect whether they make the first, second, or championship rounds of the playoffs. Our highest outcome is maybe scraping into the playoffs for a first round sweep and then being tapped out due to the contracts we've signed.

In a capped league, you - not occasionally but often - have to make a hard choice on numbers if you want to be in a position to keep moving forward. Look at the Warriors - the reason they were able to build a dynasty was they had Steph Curry on a ridiculous sweetheart deal for the early part of their runs and Klay and Dray on their rookie deal for the initial build. Once they even had to pay him superstar market value their window closed. There just isn't enough to go around to hold bad deals. Dolan's early philosophy was team suicide if you want to compete regularly. Not only does it saddle teams with payroll but it attracts grifters to the team who see that they can leverage this philosophy for a hot payday. We now have the chance to show the world that we've moved past tossing money around like drunken sailors in a whorehouse. Non-moves today would show the world that the Knicks are finally ready to move forward.

While I agree with most of that, the Knicks should now just roll on into this season with Randle crowding the paint around Mitch and Obi, taking up touches and space, while RJ has no decent scorer to take the pressure of him while the team will also simultaneously lack guards who are good at getting into the paint and creating for themselves and/or others?

Sounds like a plan.

For this:

[br7knicks]

ok, maybe we don't need bogie. give me my fred or give the keys to the kids. burks is already gonna take too many minutes (b
ut could be a nice marcus morris-like trade chip if he repeats last season).

Burks is fine. But he's going to be a perimeter version of randle - hey, I've put up some good numbers before, and now I'm the go-to guy in NY, so it's important for me to put up even more numbers. Therefore I need to shoot or do something amazing everytime I touch the ball.

At 6 million, he'll become a nice trade chip for a late first, or 2 SRPs

[thebuzzardman]

Boy, Obi, Quickly and even Powell better be the sh*t, and immediately, or this is going to be one horrendous team.

[Tron Carter]

Read on Twitter

get George hill or DJ

[br7knicks]

Some people don't get jokes

I want nothing to do with wall. Unless Washington attached every FRP they have, wall should not wear a Knicks uniform. Would rather deal with randle for one more year than take on walls contract with at least 4 FRPs

I would gladly take on Walls contract for 2021 & 2023 unprotected FRPs. Add that to the fact that the Wizards will be horrible next year and I’m more inclined to do it knowing the pick next year would be a lottery pick.

I'd rather not see the Knicks strapped for that contract. If the young guys make a jump this year, a big time FA may want to join early to help out, but the Knicks will have their hands tied.

Plus, we don't know what wall looks like. Dude might come in looking like felton

[N Y K]

Read on Twitter

[Buttah304]

Leon being stealth mode team tank does in fact make him a Ninja moving in the shadows

[NotDikembeSayNo]

ok, maybe we don't need bogie. give me my fred or give the keys to the kids. burks is already gonna take too many minutes (b
ut could be a nice marcus morris-like trade chip if he repeats last season).

Burks is fine. But he's going to be a perimeter version of randle - hey, I've put up some good numbers before, and now I'm the go-to guy in NY, so it's important for me to put up even more numbers. Therefore I need to shoot or do something amazing everytime I touch the ball.

At 6 million, he'll become a nice trade chip for a late first, or 2 SRPs

If Burks is under impression he’s the go-to guy with us then the problem lies within the coaching staff more than anything. Yes Randle was and should have been the go to guy for us last year but Fizdale completely botched the entire situation. It’s not a coincidence that when Randle was in New Orleans he was viewed as a very nice piece on a good team. Look at how he was used they are compared to how he was used here. Why the hell was our power forward starting possessions with the ball at the top of the arc? Reminds me of the good old days when Jared Jeffries used to start every possession with the ball God damn near half court.

[thebuzzardman]

Can anyone explain to me what the hurry was in tying up 11 million dollars in cap space for Davis and Burks?

Wait, I forgot Davis brought in second rounders in 2023 double draft.

But Burks? Why?

Why did the Knicks sign Burks AND pick up Bullocks? Or is Burks more G to Bullocks more SF?
They both seem like SG/SF swing bench guys to me.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

get George hill or DJ

From OKC? Gonna cost both Mav's picks