Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

stinger14 · Post #101 » by **stinger14** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:44 pm

Things were going well, drafted a potential star 3rd overall to add to a couple of other young talents, was getting ready to finally have a clean cap, looking to get another franchising changing talent in the top 5 next year......THEN today happened! This very well may be the worst run franchise in all of sports.

Post #102 » by **JDR720** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:45 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:
JDR720 wrote:I already see it.

Hayward is going to average 20/5/5....but not be good enough to drag us into the playoffs. We'll pick 9th and pick whoever falls in the draft....again.

If he averages that he's worth his contract fwiw

In a vacuum sure, but not for us.

Him averaging will put at the 7-11 spot at best unless some of our young players make unexpected leaps. And then, he'll age out and we'll stay in those 7-11 spots until Ball leaves us for a big market...and then we'll be terrible again.

Hayward is a move you make when you have a good young core established, and need a veteran to push them over the top. We do not have that situation, we're still trying to figure out who among our young players are actually good or not. We shouldn't be at this stage of a rebuild for at least a couple more seasons. We're skipping steps, just like we did with Al and Nic. Al was worth his contract...but he didn't make us better.

Braggins · Post #103 » by **Braggins** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:45 pm

Lwcasu wrote:I don’t mind this. I wanted him the first time we tried to pursue him. But now I’m curious what we do with Bridges?

No reason to move Bridges. Hayward can start at SG and if they want to start him at SF, thats also fine because there is a huge hole at backup SF and PF with this roster, so there will be plenty of minutes for Bridges regardless. I think the best option at this point would be to try to move Rozier for a halfway decent 3&D SG and then move Miles to the bench.

Graham/Monk/Riller
3&D/LaMelo
Hayward/Martin
PJ/Miles
Cody/Carey/Richards

They still could use another decent center options because Cody can't handle starter minutes at this point in his career.

In the spirit of not being completely doom and gloom. One positive thing about Hayward is that he is actually a pretty good player and he also plays the right way, so his presence won't hamper the development of the young players we currently have. This is still all insane, but at least hes not a selfish ball hog with no work ethic who refuses to play defense like Big Al.

316Hornets · Post #104 » by **316Hornets** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:45 pm

DY_nasty wrote:never seen a franchise's entire rebuild go up in smoke in one afternoon... unreal

If Hayward is as damaged goods as you claim, this should ensure the rebuild. We've got basically 40 mil tied up in him for next 3 years. If he turns into Chandler Parsons, we'll be lucky to sniff the 8th seed for next 3 years.

DY_nasty · Post #105 » by **DY_nasty** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 pm

Read on Twitter

and i wanted to blame just mitch for this....

lol. mj is the problem.

vorbis · Post #106 » by **vorbis** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:And honestly $20/per isn't a crazy number for a good player. The LENGH of the contract is potentially problematic. Stretching Batum is problematic.

$20/per would be a great contract for Hayward, but he got $30M per in this contract.

DY_nasty · Post #107 » by **DY_nasty** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 pm

316Hornets wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:never seen a franchise's entire rebuild go up in smoke in one afternoon... unreal

If Hayward is as damaged goods as you claim, this should ensure the rebuild. We've got basically 40 mil tied up in him for next 3 years. If he turns into Chandler Parsons, we'll be lucky to sniff the 8th seed for next 3 years.

we can't sign better players next year because of him

we are effectively screwed both ways and you don't get it :lol:

Liver_Pooty · Post #108 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:47 pm

JDR720 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
JDR720 wrote:I already see it.

Hayward is going to average 20/5/5....but not be good enough to drag us into the playoffs. We'll pick 9th and pick whoever falls in the draft....again.

If he averages that he's worth his contract fwiw

In a vacuum sure, but not for us.

Him averaging will put at the 7-11 spot at best unless some of our young players make unexpected leaps. And then, he'll age out and we'll stay in those 7-11 spots until Ball leaves us for a big market...and then we'll be terrible again.

Hayward is a move you make when you have a good young core established, and need a veteran to push them over the top. We do not have that situation, we're still trying to figure out who among our young players are actually good or not. We shouldn't be at this stage of a rebuild for at least a couple more seasons. We're skipping steps, just like we did with Al and Nic. Al was worth his contract...but he didn't make us better.

We have a good young core established. If Lamelo, Graham, Miles, and PJ isn't a good enough young core im not sure what to tell you.

316Hornets · Post #109 » by **316Hornets** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:47 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:never seen a franchise's entire rebuild go up in smoke in one afternoon... unreal

If Hayward is as damaged goods as you claim, this should ensure the rebuild. We've got basically 40 mil tied up in him for next 3 years. If he turns into Chandler Parsons, we'll be lucky to sniff the 8th seed for next 3 years.

we can't sign better players next year because of him

we are effectively screwed both ways and you don't get it

Why would you want to sign better players if you want to rebuild and get lotto picks?

King Ken · Post #110 » by **King Ken** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:48 pm

DY_nasty wrote:never seen a franchise's entire rebuild go up in smoke in one afternoon... unreal

I mean look at the bright side, Atlanta got way better, Toronto is joining replacing the Wizards, Miami might not be the greatest regular-season team but they are quality as we all know especially at the start, and Orlando is still pesky Orlando. Charlotte still might suck even if OKC and New York are in a class of their own. At the end of the day, nothing is harder than winning games with a rookie PG.

Liver_Pooty · Post #111 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:48 pm

On a sidenote I think Rozier gets moved by the end of the weekend now.

Post #112 » by **BigSlam** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:49 pm

DY_nasty wrote:

Read on Twitter

incredible

Oh **** me. The only thing that had me thinking it might be ok was if the last 2 years were team options.

**** me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Braggins · Post #113 » by **Braggins** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:49 pm

DY_nasty wrote:

Read on Twitter

and i wanted to blame just mitch for this....

lol. mj is the problem.

same at is ever was
SAME AS IT EVER WAS
sAmE aS iT eVeR wAs
SaMe As It EvEr WaS

I almost posted something how I almost guarantee this was an MJ deal when I heard the news, but didn't want to jump the gun until we actually got the deets.

amcoolio · Post #114 » by **amcoolio** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 pm

At least we have all our picks. Mitch is going to have to draft his **** off now to save this.

Braggins · Post #115 » by **Braggins** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm

vorbis wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:And honestly $20/per isn't a crazy number for a good player. The LENGH of the contract is potentially problematic. Stretching Batum is problematic.

$20/per would be a great contract for Hayward, but he got $30M per in this contract.

Its 39 per.

James Gatz · Post #116 » by **James Gatz** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Read on Twitter

DY_nasty · Post #117 » by **DY_nasty** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:52 pm

316Hornets wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
If Hayward is as damaged goods as you claim, this should ensure the rebuild. We've got basically 40 mil tied up in him for next 3 years. If he turns into Chandler Parsons, we'll be lucky to sniff the 8th seed for next 3 years.

we can't sign better players next year because of him

we are effectively screwed both ways and you don't get it

Why would you want to sign better players if you want to rebuild and get lotto picks?

if he's good, we can't tank and lose out on draft placement with an INCREDIBLE rookie class and still get absolutely smoked in the playoffs. can't sign anyone worth because if hayward could recruit to small markets, he would've done it in utah back before his injury.

if he's bad, we can't pair anyone with our rookies when we would've leveraged two high quality guys at the same instead of hoping one guy would feel comfortable to come here alone.

its a catch 22 where we're screwed both ways. when all we had to do was wait

amcoolio · Post #118 » by **amcoolio** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:53 pm

Bonnell reported that Charlotte will waive and stretch Batum, hopefully they haven't done it yet and are trying to make it work first. Why would Bonnell have a scoop like that.

_tijo_ · Post #119 » by **_tijo_** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:55 pm

I was on the course when this dropped. I came back and saw the news. I said to myself "everyone on the RealGM Hornets board is probably going ape right now."

I was totally right. Sigh.

MJ can't help himself. I'm giving GH a chance, hope he can deliver.

Post #120 » by **JDR720** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:56 pm

We're stuck in the same place we've been stuck in for the past decade.

Probably good enough to not get a top pick. Probably bad enough to not make the playoffs.

It sucks even more because next years draft looks to be the best one in recent memory.