Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[316Hornets]

Hayward is one my favorite players in the league. I don't care if he ruins the team lotto chances. I love the deal and think it will help Lamelo accumulate himself to the spotlight of the NBA. If the team sucks, people will look at Hayward. Let Lamelo grow and make mistakes without millions of people calling him crap.

[Soul Rebel]

If this past season played out over a full 82 games, we may have slipped in as the 8th seed. Since then, we haven't lost anyone meaningful (Batum/Bacon), added a top-3 draft pick that is a helluva facilitator and a 6'7" point guard and added an ideal team-first, veteran wing that can shoot lights out.

No way we are an 8-10 seed in 2020-21. We are not a top team in the East per se, but this doom and gloom of missing the playoffs ain't it.

There are ways of moving up in the draft. Maybe holding onto Terry and Bridges for now and leveraging them on draft day is how we do this.

I get the hate for what is essentially erasing a rebuild and wanting a clean cap sheet next offseason.

[Braggins]

Stretching Batum helps the rebuild. It means we likely won't be a top 4 seed next few years. This should be a good thing to all of you mad about Hayward hurting our draft selections.

What lol?. We would have been a 4th seed with Batum? Hes not even playable at this point and wouldn't have been in the rotation. All stretching him does is effectively add 9 million to Haywards annual salary. We'll be lucky to make the playoffs with this roster, but wont be anywhere near contention for a top pick.

We were the 10th seed last season before adding a #3 pick. Where is this idea that we were going to be a bottom 3 team before adding Hayward coming from?

Brooklyn was tanking out the KD injury and Atlanta got way better. My bad, though, we could be the 9th or even 8th seed! Hooray!

Milwaukee
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Toronto
Indiana
Atlanta

If Atlanta gets Bogdonavic then Indiana is the only team out of that bunch we have any chance of being better than.

[Liver_Pooty]

Bonnell reported that Charlotte will waive and stretch Batum, hopefully they haven't done it yet and are trying to make it work first. Why would Bonnell have a scoop like that.

Only way we could sign Hayward

[Rays Pompadour]

The sky was falling when Charlotte did the sign and trade for Rozier, too. The money was the main thing for that deal as well. Turned out okay, I think, more or less.

Let me offer this dose of reality - this is Michael Jordan's money, not yours and not mine. As we lament the cost of Hayward, just know that we don't sign the paycheck, thank goodness. We may consider the cap ramifications with the commitment to Hayward and the stretch of Batum, but Hayward's 30-per is close enough to Batum's 27 to matter, and Jordan was not going to pay Batum to sit on the pines this season.

The bottom line is that Charlotte has its kind of player, smart, skilled, team-oriented, while paying Batum money on an extended contract. And it doesn't cost me one red cent.

[amcoolio]

Bonnell reported that Charlotte will waive and stretch Batum, hopefully they haven't done it yet and are trying to make it work first. Why would Bonnell have a scoop like that.

Only way we could sign Hayward

We could have a deal for Zeller or Rozier...is pen to paper yet?

A boston poster suggested a three way sending Batum to OKC, Horford to Boston and Hayward to Charlotte, is that even possible?

[amcoolio]

Also, I would have given Bogdanovic this contract before Hayward

[Liver_Pooty]

Bonnell reported that Charlotte will waive and stretch Batum, hopefully they haven't done it yet and are trying to make it work first. Why would Bonnell have a scoop like that.

Only way we could sign Hayward

We could have a deal for Zeller or Rozier...is pen to paper yet?

A boston poster suggested a three way sending Batum to OKC, Horford to Boston and Hayward to Charlotte, is that even possible?

Hell I dunno. Thats BOB territory lol

[316Hornets]

What lol?. We would have been a 4th seed with Batum? Hes not even playable at this point and wouldn't have been in the rotation. All stretching him does is effectively add 9 million to Haywards annual salary. We'll be lucky to make the playoffs with this roster, but wont be anywhere near contention for a top pick.

We were the 10th seed last season before adding a #3 pick. Where is this idea that we were going to be a bottom 3 team before adding Hayward coming from?

Brooklyn was tanking out the KD injury and Atlanta got way better. My bad, though, we could be the 9th or even 8th seed! Hooray!

Milwaukee
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Toronto
Indiana
Atlanta

If Atlanta gets Bogdonavic then Indiana is the only team out of that bunch we have any chance of being better than.

Washington will be a bottom 3 team if they trade Wall. We aren't out tanking them. Knicks have not added anyone significant and they guy they drafted is a role player at best. We aren't out tanking them.

That's just 2 teams from the East we had 0% chance of out tanking. There isn't a significant change in lotto luck outside the bottom 3. So unless we were bad enough to tank to bottom 3, I don't see the big deal.

[Braggins]

Read on Twitter

Agree, but I think in the Batum case he warranted the hate because he immediately checked out after he signed his contract. The main focus should still have been on the front office for signing a player who was a huge risk to do exactly that, but if a guy signs massive contract then immediately goes "Lol I don't care anymore thanx for the bag haha" then its fair to trash him imo.

[DY_nasty]

The sky was falling when Charlotte did the sign and trade for Rozier, too. The money was the main thing for that deal as well. Turned out okay, I think, more or less.

Let me offer this dose of reality - this is Michael Jordan's money, not yours and not mine. As we lament the cost of Hayward, just know that we don't sign the paycheck, thank goodness. We may consider the cap ramifications with the commitment to Hayward and the stretch of Batum, but Hayward's 30-per is close enough to Batum's 27 to matter, and Jordan was not going to pay Batum to sit on the pines this season.

The bottom line is that Charlotte has its kind of player, smart, skilled, team-oriented, while paying Batum money on an extended contract. And it doesn't cost me one red cent.

i don't care if hayward makes 200 million. hamstringing the team is the problem

good for him. and no, its 30 mil + the 9 per year from stretching batum. and mj paid batum to sit down for the past 3 years - one more wasn't going to hurt especially since we're openly tanking

stop trying to spin this lol. this is terrible no matter how you cut it. we didn't lose any flexibility by picking up rozier...

[Braggins]

We were the 10th seed last season before adding a #3 pick. Where is this idea that we were going to be a bottom 3 team before adding Hayward coming from?

Brooklyn was tanking out the KD injury and Atlanta got way better. My bad, though, we could be the 9th or even 8th seed! Hooray!

Milwaukee
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Toronto
Indiana
Atlanta

If Atlanta gets Bogdonavic then Indiana is the only team out of that bunch we have any chance of being better than.

Washington will be a bottom 3 team if they trade Wall. We aren't out tanking them. Knicks have not added anyone significant and they guy they drafted is a role player at best. We aren't out tanking them.

That's just 2 teams from the East we had 0% chance of out tanking. There isn't a significant change in lotto luck outside the bottom 3. So unless we were bad enough to tank to bottom 3, I don't see the big deal.

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Also, I would have given Bogdanovic this contract before Hayward

This I agree with.

[fox2jk]

HAHAHAHAHA

Hopefully this is a sign and trade with the Warriors. MJ is atrocious.

Wiggins would be a good fit here.

[DY_nasty]

i think im done lol

wow

[Braggins]

Also, I would have given Bogdanovic this contract before Hayward

Report from the other day said Bogdonavic was looking for a 4/72 deal. We could have possibly outbid everyone with 4 years in the 90-100 million range if he was actually willing to come here. Hes not quite as good as Hayward, but the age and lack of injury risk puts them about on par in terms of value, so even 4/100 would have been a steal compared to this nonsense.

Edit: Even 110-120 mil for Bogdonavic would be a steal considering the Hayward deal is effectively 4/147.

[dmutombo321]

Read on Twitter

and i wanted to blame just mitch for this....

lol. mj is the problem.

Yeah, this had MJs stench all over it. He's like an impetuous AA member who tries to do the responsible thing every few years but can't help himself and goes on a bender as soon as he gets his 1 week token... And cap space is his booze..

What an absolute moronic move that undermines everything they've done the past 18 months and puts them right back on the perennial 8th seed treadmill they just hopped off.. This is like signing Al Jefferson all over again.

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[316Hornets]

Brooklyn was tanking out the KD injury and Atlanta got way better. My bad, though, we could be the 9th or even 8th seed! Hooray!

Milwaukee
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Toronto
Indiana
Atlanta

If Atlanta gets Bogdonavic then Indiana is the only team out of that bunch we have any chance of being better than.

Washington will be a bottom 3 team if they trade Wall. We aren't out tanking them. Knicks have not added anyone significant and they guy they drafted is a role player at best. We aren't out tanking them.

That's just 2 teams from the East we had 0% chance of out tanking. There isn't a significant change in lotto luck outside the bottom 3. So unless we were bad enough to tank to bottom 3, I don't see the big deal.

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

[Braggins]

Washington will be a bottom 3 team if they trade Wall. We aren't out tanking them. Knicks have not added anyone significant and they guy they drafted is a role player at best. We aren't out tanking them.

That's just 2 teams from the East we had 0% chance of out tanking. There isn't a significant change in lotto luck outside the bottom 3. So unless we were bad enough to tank to bottom 3, I don't see the big deal.

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

Awesome, we are back to the denial stage with fans saying "Oh well the draft is a crapshoot it doesn't matter where we pick" lol...

I mean, its cool you are a Hayward fan and get to your for your guy, but some fans want more than just being able to root for players we think are cool.

[Rays Pompadour]

The sky was falling when Charlotte did the sign and trade for Rozier, too. The money was the main thing for that deal as well. Turned out okay, I think, more or less.

Let me offer this dose of reality - this is Michael Jordan's money, not yours and not mine. As we lament the cost of Hayward, just know that we don't sign the paycheck, thank goodness. We may consider the cap ramifications with the commitment to Hayward and the stretch of Batum, but Hayward's 30-per is close enough to Batum's 27 to matter, and Jordan was not going to pay Batum to sit on the pines this season.

The bottom line is that Charlotte has its kind of player, smart, skilled, team-oriented, while paying Batum money on an extended contract. And it doesn't cost me one red cent.

i don't care if hayward makes 200 million. hamstringing the team is the problem

good for him. and no, its 30 mil + the 9 per year from stretching batum. and mj paid batum to sit down for the past 3 years - one more wasn't going to hurt especially since we're openly tanking

stop trying to spin this lol. this is terrible no matter how you cut it. we didn't lose any flexibility by picking up rozier...

It's cap space, not dollars, right? The signing is what it is, but the Batum stretch affects the cap, not the bank balance. Will not having the $9M the next three years hurt? Yep, especially with flexibility as you pointed out. Forget using cap space to go after draft capital. Rozier's contract was considered an extreme overpay and it was a three-year deal. I think it an overpay, but Rozier made swallowing his contract easier. Spin goes both ways. I choose to see good things and not see a falling sky.