Trade Thread #7: The Tide is Turning, but still Myles to go

[Darth Celtic]

So, we're kinda down to Baynes/Ibaka/Millsap.

Giles?

Better fits age of roster

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[jirrit]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, cause I say this a lot:

Sure, if all our opponents get the most favorable outcomes, and none of our youths take a step, then obviously we lose ground. But it rarely works like that in reality. Not every rival team will maximize their potential, while we completely fail to do so. These things fall on bell curves. Some teams will improve and some will regress.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us beat or lose to any of these team this season.

When did I ever say some of our players won't improve? You cannot deny there is a gulf between the top teams in the conference, and the Celtics. I mean, is that even debatable?

Yes, I deny there is a "gulf" between us and the likes of Philly. We just swept them without Gordo. We can even regress some and they can improve some and still have there not be a "gulf".

Kemba / Brown / Tatum puts a relatively high floor on us. We're not going to just be flat non-competitive this year.

I think that's our blessing and our bad luck. If we looked worse in the play-offs the urge would have been bigger IMO. Now we saw we were pretty much up there (in the East) without Gordon so counting on a good draft, evolution of our players and no mortgage of the future is still not a bad card to play for Danny.

[reload141]

Yes, I deny there is a "gulf" between us and the likes of Philly. We just swept them without Gordo. We can even regress some and they can improve some and still have there not be a "gulf".

Kemba / Brown / Tatum puts a relatively high floor on us. We're not going to just be flat non-competitive this year.

Never said we are not gonna be competitive.... Just not good enough to win more than a round, as things stand at the moment. Our floor is high, our ceiling is not as high as the others. We beat Philly without Simmons... think it's a sweep with him?? I don't think so. We struggled to get past Toronto...so let's not act as if we were dynamite in the playoffs. We were good, but nowhere near dominant.

Of course it's not still a sweep. It doesn't need to be.

I'm not exactly pretending we're a shoe-in for the finals or anything. I can see everything from a first round exit to another ECF run.

But I do absolutely reject that there's a "gulf" between us and the likes of Philly or Toronto.

Agree with you SMTBSI

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I do get the the Celtics made the ECF but my concern is that:

Heat are still legit and the bucks, nets and sixers either will be better (nets) or have made moves to improve the roster. As I type this the celtics have added yet more unknown players, lost a starter and traded a big. Unless Ainge has some plan I don't see how this team is better than any of the teams I mentioned above.

[Patsfan1081]

You're being very dismissive toward the fact that it never should of been haywards decision and that is the point.

How so? He had a player option. He opted out. Seems pretty simple to me.

It's not that simple. Horford pulled this blind over danny's eyes last year and the fact that he allowed it to get to this point again is on him.

Arguing over wether hayward deserves the extra 20 mil or not isn't really a thing. Wyc is cheap as **** is what we're learning.

I was with you on the first part.

[Bostondave]

I'm happy. Despite this forum. I'm glad to see Hayward gone. Addition by subtraction. Not sure what CHA is thinking but hell I'll say it. I just might be the clean cut white boy and it might tie into why no real FA's want to come here. Well he's CHA's problem now. I'm happy myself and look forward to this season.

Well on the plus side, there won’t be anymore confusion between who is Hayward and who is Theis.

YEah intreresting how that worked out eh? Two guys basically the same size and one willing to sacrifice and do what the team needs. The other one never panned out. WIll never get back to the marginal allstar. I say good riddance and goodbye.

[SMTBSI]

3 years away from being 3 years away

Cave is right, dumping Kemba next offseason is this teams best chance. You need a better second fiddle to Tatum than Jaylen, and that’s the path.

People will want to play with JT. Like embiid.

The wave-functions are starting to collapse. Paths are closing off. Cap space routes and luring guys to play with Tatum are coming into focus.

[return2glory]

Hopefully we learned one thing from all this. No more jinx threads that include players the Celtics are going after (Holiday, Turner, Wood).

[sprash9802]

3 years away from being 3 years away

Cave is right, dumping Kemba next offseason is this teams best chance. You need a better second fiddle to Tatum than Jaylen, and that’s the path.

People will want to play with JT. Like embiid.

The wave-functions are starting to collapse. Paths are closing off. Cap space routes and luring guys to play with Tatum are coming into focus.

Since when did you become Schroedinger?

[MagicBagley18]

3 years away from being 3 years away

Cave is right, dumping Kemba next offseason is this teams best chance. You need a better second fiddle to Tatum than Jaylen, and that’s the path.

People will want to play with JT. Like embiid.

Right but again I mean I understand that’s the correct thinking. But here we are again, taking a step back to make a move forward that’s contingent on free agency.....never a sure bet.

[chrisab123]

Read on Twitter

Hahaha wow. At this point I'm not surprised. Just tank. Team as constructed is a 5th seed at best.

Tank with Tatum smart and brown on the team. Lololol. I suppose you also think Knicks and hornets will be better than us......

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Nope both are trash teams.

[BRUNiNHO91]

If Hayward was willing to take Indy's offer but Ainge didn't want what was coming back, then we have some things to talk about and Ainge should get hammered.

If Hayward wasn't willing to take Indy's offer and instead wanted the bag from the Hornets, then Ainge is handcuffed, unless you wanted Ainge to pay him that albatross contract?

Exactly. But we will never really know. So it's impossible to sit here and crucify the guy.

Btw, Gordon Hayward signed an offer sheet with Charlotte in 2014 before Utah matched. There was interest in going there for a long, long time.

[Patsfan1081]

I do get the the Celtics make the ECF but my concern is that:

Heat are still legit and the bucks, nets and sixers either will be better (nets) or have made moves to improve the roster. As I type this the celtics have added yet more unknown players, lost a starter and traded a big. Unless Ainge has some plan I don't see how this team is better than any of the teams I mentioned above.

This sums it up. Looks like he forced himself into banking on the developement of his draft picks and that’s a little scary. A handful of teams got vet shooters for middling draft picks, can’t understand why Danny couldn’t do this the past few years when he’s had more picks than anyone.

[Bohemian]

Wow! incredibly shocking!

Gordon did well in taking the money. Anybody -particularly in his physical situation- would have taken a 4 year deal at 30 million dollars, it´s a no brainer. It is obvious that Danny could do nothing there...BUT...

It has happened already 3 times to Ainge (Irving, Horford, Hayward). You should have had a plan B and C. He should admit he has failed to prepare the team for this.

The hit is massive.

I don´t know how we can improve this team. Whatever we do, it can´t be better than last year´s. And last year´s was worse than the previous one in terms of talent.

[jfs1000d]

Serious question:

If Ainge signed Hayward for 4 yrs/120, would you guys be happy? Because I know for a fact the board would still be in shambles saying "what are you doing paying him that".

Carry on.

The options. Think short and long term

1. Match Hayward 4, 120m

2. Get Hayward turn into $25m in Turner and LcDermott

3. Hayward leaves

If I had to choose, my preference is 3. I hope we can get a tpe for Hayward, but I just can’t stomach 4 years at that cash for Hayward. The Indy deal was dumb. Turner and McDermott are contract dumps by Indy. That doesn’t make us better.

We do have some cap issues with Walker and Tatum extension. We don’t have contracts to trade, which is an issue.


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[The Corey's]

Not replacing his production but they drafted two wings to replace him on the roster.

But i'm sure you understood that. Just wouldn't fit your god awful narrative

Celtics better today or we'd night?

I bet that dont fit in your god awful narrative

Need to move the goalposts? Good one champ!

Simply explained what he meant by saying we drafted Romeo and Nesmith to replace Hayward.

My man. Focus.

I'm it moving the goal post. You are.

I'm not saying we give hayward the money. I'm not upset that we lost hayward.

I'm upset that the green teamers can't bring them self to admit this is a **** disasterous result. It's literally the worst result of any on the situation.

Losing hayward for nothing after losing both horford and iriving for nothing is not just a fire-able offense it's **** career defining.

But that doesn't fit your narrative of the celtics trying wicked hard and winning 50 games and maybe beating a indiana pacers in the first round. I'm sure of it.

[celticfan42487]

HAHAHAHHAHAHHA

I'M DONE BOYS

I'M DONE

HAPPENED AGAIN, LOST AN ENTIRE TEAM IN 2 OFF SEASONS HAHAHA

30 MIL A SEASON FOR 4 YEARS GET THE **** OUT OF HERE HORNETS

HAHAHHAHAHA

I'M DONE

Just like you were done when the Sixers signed Horford last year and Celtics didn't wanna match that albatross contract?

Yes.

Like I said 30 mil for 4 years get the **** out of here

Signing an over 30 big who is merely a starter to a max contract get the **** out of here

Multiple times over the past few weeks I said I wouldn't go above 20 million for Hayward.

Thanks for asking, next time just assume people know what they're doing if they're not Michael Jordan.

[ParticleMan]

When did I ever say some of our players won't improve? You cannot deny there is a gulf between the top teams in the conference, and the Celtics. I mean, is that even debatable?

we lost to the 5th seed heat in the ECF because we couldn't bust a zone. we made it farther than the sixers, bucks, toronto. and we're improving. our best player has only been a superstar for half a season.

so yeah, that's debatable. more than that, it's just plain wrong.

I don’t think anyone is debating wether the young guys will improve or not, they just can’t do it alone and Ainge hasn’t done anything but draft players to try to fill the rotation. Milly has improved, Brooklyn is much improved. We saw Philly without Simmons. They’re also doing what Ainge should be, a dressing needs like shooting. People are mad because Hayward walked out the door and this team took a step back when you expected them to take a step forward.

fair enough but let's see where the season ends up. hayward was like waiting for godot, is he ever going to be healthy? is he ever going to be the guy we wanted? brad spent so much effort trying to work him into the game plan, to keep him the focus of ball movement.

it's time to let the shackles off the kids. tatum and brown are ready. our young bench will be better. we're not going to be favorites next year given the lebrons but i don't think we would have been markedly better with turner and mcbuckets. honestly, i think they would have made us worse in the long run. i'd rather lose hayward for nothing than get cap-clogging guys who aren't making us contenders.

now we've got a lot more flexibility under the tax this year. we get to see what the kids can do. i'm excited. i don't think we're going to be any worse, because let's face it, we pretty much played without a healthy hayward most of the year anyways. it's not like we're actually losing someone who was an integral part of what we did. unless our kids unexpectedly regress we will be better.

[canman1971]

It's mind blowing to you that people are upset we lost hayward for nothing? It's kind of mind blowing to me that you find that mind blowing...tbh.

It's called being a realist and a grown up. It was Hayward's decision bottom line.

So during the season you believed Hayward would just walk and Ainge wouldn’t get anything? At the very least you would think Ainge had a backup plan if he did so. A lot of people aren’t mad that Hayward walked, it’s the roster as a whole people are frustrated with.

I didn't believe anything. I don't operate like that. Hayward, while I like as a player, really did **** for the Celtics and it was not his fault; it was just bad luck.

[Feed Your Head]

3 years away from being 3 years away

Cave is right, dumping Kemba next offseason is this teams best chance. You need a better second fiddle to Tatum than Jaylen, and that’s the path.

People will want to play with JT. Like embiid.

Right but again I mean I understand that’s the correct thinking. But here we are again, taking a step back to make a move forward that’s contingent on free agency.....never a sure bet.

Agreed, but I’m just focusing on our best path. Hope Danny signs guys to one year deals, and that Tatum continues his path towards an mvp level player.