Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[DY_nasty]

Washington will be a bottom 3 team if they trade Wall. We aren't out tanking them. Knicks have not added anyone significant and they guy they drafted is a role player at best. We aren't out tanking them.

That's just 2 teams from the East we had 0% chance of out tanking. There isn't a significant change in lotto luck outside the bottom 3. So unless we were bad enough to tank to bottom 3, I don't see the big deal.

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

[JMAC3]

Brooklyn was tanking out the KD injury and Atlanta got way better. My bad, though, we could be the 9th or even 8th seed! Hooray!

Milwaukee
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Toronto
Indiana
Atlanta

If Atlanta gets Bogdonavic then Indiana is the only team out of that bunch we have any chance of being better than.

I know everyone is really freaking out right now, but if LaMelo pick works out, we have just as much talent as Toronto, Indiana and Atlanta.

We also really screwed the Celtics over by not doing the sign and trade. They lost a ton of "Roster Equity" by losing Hayward for nothing. They got greedy and demanded Turner and Oladipo/Warren instead of just taking Turner and McDermott.

Now they only have the MLE (9.3 million) to offer to improve their team and no cap space.

[Benjamin Linus]

LMAOOOOO

What a bunch of bozos running this team

[DY_nasty]

The sky was falling when Charlotte did the sign and trade for Rozier, too. The money was the main thing for that deal as well. Turned out okay, I think, more or less.

Let me offer this dose of reality - this is Michael Jordan's money, not yours and not mine. As we lament the cost of Hayward, just know that we don't sign the paycheck, thank goodness. We may consider the cap ramifications with the commitment to Hayward and the stretch of Batum, but Hayward's 30-per is close enough to Batum's 27 to matter, and Jordan was not going to pay Batum to sit on the pines this season.

The bottom line is that Charlotte has its kind of player, smart, skilled, team-oriented, while paying Batum money on an extended contract. And it doesn't cost me one red cent.

i don't care if hayward makes 200 million. hamstringing the team is the problem

good for him. and no, its 30 mil + the 9 per year from stretching batum. and mj paid batum to sit down for the past 3 years - one more wasn't going to hurt especially since we're openly tanking

stop trying to spin this lol. this is terrible no matter how you cut it. we didn't lose any flexibility by picking up rozier...

It's cap space, not dollars, right? The signing is what it is, but the Batum stretch affects the cap, not the bank balance. Will not having the $9M the next three years hurt? Yep, especially with flexibility as you pointed out. Forget using cap space to go after draft capital. Rozier's contract was considered an extreme overpay and it was a three-year deal. I think it an overpay, but Rozier made swallowing his contract easier. Spin goes both ways. I choose to see good things and not see a falling sky.

i was one of the guys who saw nothing wrong with rozier's signing and still don't. considering his level of play, his contract is actually legit considering how some other guys have been getting paid this offseason.

you can choose to see good things all you want but the reality is the FO is shortsighted and stupid. if they had done nothing at all, it would've been dramatically better than what just happened. that's how bad we are. we can't even do nothing right.

[316Hornets]

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

But Hayward is damaged goods you said. And now we can't sign better players. So, we are actually looking great at top picks both years.

And, yes, I think Hayward is damaged goods. He won't be able to play 72 games this season. This is a 4d chess move by Mitch.

[DY_nasty]

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

But Hayward is damaged goods you said. And now we can't sign better players. So, we are actually looking great at top picks both years.

And, yes, I think Hayward is damaged goods. He won't be able to play 72 games this season. This is a 4d chess move by Mitch.

why would you spend 120 million for high draft picks?

make it make sense

[Liver_Pooty]

If we can trade Rozier for an expiring we should go into next season with plenty of flexibility with Zellers expiring as well id think.

[316Hornets]

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

But Hayward is damaged goods you said. And now we can't sign better players. So, we are actually looking great at top picks both years.

And, yes, I think Hayward is damaged goods. He won't be able to play 72 games this season. This is a 4d chess move by Mitch.

why would you spend 120 million for high draft picks?

make it make sense

Because you need to deflect blame from the young guys. We are losing because of Hayward, not because of Lamelo, Devonte, PJ.

[DY_nasty]

But Hayward is damaged goods you said. And now we can't sign better players. So, we are actually looking great at top picks both years.

And, yes, I think Hayward is damaged goods. He won't be able to play 72 games this season. This is a 4d chess move by Mitch.

why would you spend 120 million for high draft picks?

make it make sense

Because you need to deflect blame from the young guys. We are losing because of Hayward, not because of Lamelo, Devonte, PJ.

so now its 120 million for a scapegoat

[JMAC3]

Next years draft is stacked. Any pick in the top 8 would have been a huge help and the team could easily have been bottom 5 with a Rozier trade and prioritizing minutes for young guys. Instead, we are right back in no mans land. Not good enough to have any chance of winning a playoff series, not bad enough to get a top pick, and no cap flexibility.

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

Counting on drafting 3 great picks in lottery sounds like a great strategy, but it hardly ever works out for as many teams that try this strategy. OKC and Philly are probably only teams it ever really worked out for. Kings, Suns, Chicago have been in lottery every year and never got over the hump with that strategy.

We very easily could of kept tanking and finished with the 7th and 10th picks in the next two drafts and ended up with just average guys. No guarantee we would land the number 1 or 2 pick and that is what you are operating with in your mind.

Hawks and Mavs did opposite. They got guys in the top 5 and decided to build around them. Atlanta hasn't had any success to speak of and they are ending their rebuild essentially as well.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

If we can trade Rozier for an expiring we should go into next season with plenty of flexibility with Zellers expiring as well id think.

I suspect that Rozier gets traded at the deadline, but not before.

Got the contract # wrong in a previous post. It's bad, no doubt. But the GH fit is really good. Bogs would have been better (and cheaper) though.

[LofJ]

The only brightside to this is that we royally screwed the Celtics. They have no contracts to trade now other than Kemba.

[DY_nasty]

The draft outside the top 3 is always a crapshoot. There's good players to be found. Just look at where we picked Devonte. This doom and gloom is something big markets do. We will win on grit. Hayward is one of the nicest guys in the league and will be a great mentor for this team.

lol you have no idea what you're talking about.... next year's class is amazing. and the one after that is going to be loaded with all of the guys who got screwed over with reclassing this year.

we're back in purgatory

Counting on drafting 3 great picks in lottery sounds like a great strategy, but it hardly ever works out for as many teams that try this strategy. OKC and Philly are probably only teams it ever really worked out for. Kings, Suns, Chicago have been in lottery every year and never got over the hump with that strategy.

We very easily could of kept tanking and finished with the 7th and 10th picks in the next two drafts and ended up with just average guys. No guarantee we would land the number 1 or 2 pick and that is what you are operating with in your mind.

Hawks and Mavs did opposite. They got guys in the top 5 and decided to build around them. Atlanta hasn't had any success to speak of and they are ending their rebuild essentially as well.

yeah, which is why 3 great draft picks and a wide open cap sheet is a hell of a lot better....

we were in such a great situation. i really don't think you guys understand it

[BlackOutBuzz]

I like it just from the "**** Ainge" side of things.

Pretty sure we need to create more space, though.

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what did ainge REALLY do to us tbh?

this is beyond stupid

Meh, less about revenge and more about how annoying I find him.

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[Braggins]

Counting on drafting 3 great picks in lottery sounds like a great strategy, but it hardly ever works out for as many teams that try this strategy.

Trying to get a franchise player picking at the top of the draft is much more reliable than putting yourself in a position where your only avenue for improvement is striking gold on late lottery picks.

Hawks and Mavs did opposite. They got guys in the top 5 and decided to build around them. Atlanta hasn't had any success to speak of and they are ending their rebuild essentially as well.

Um, the Mavs and Hawks already got their stars. Ending a rebuild makes sense when you have the best young player since Lebron whose probably winning MVP next season.

[316Hornets]

why would you spend 120 million for high draft picks?

make it make sense

Because you need to deflect blame from the young guys. We are losing because of Hayward, not because of Lamelo, Devonte, PJ.

so now its 120 million for a scapegoat

In my opinion, one of two things will happen:

Hayward will stay healthy and lead us to some good playoff games and develop the young guys

Hayward won't stay healthy and lead us to some good draft picks and develop the young guys

This is a win-win situation. More likely we continue getting lotto picks, but the guy is only 30 and has had some incredible seasons.

[SWedd523]

We're stuck in the same place we've been stuck in for the past decade.

Probably good enough to not get a top pick. Probably bad enough to not make the playoffs.

It sucks even more because next years draft looks to be the best one in recent memory.

All because MJ is functionally (Please Use More Appropriate Word) as a FO executive. Stay the **** out of the team business dude. Get out of your own way

[DY_nasty]

only 30 (and had one of the worst injuries you can get on a basketball court, hasn't recovered yet)
'incredible' seasons - averaged 20 ppg ONCE

i'm reporting you for trolling lmao

[Braggins]

I still think MJ is the main problem, but some of us might have been getting way ahead of ourselves thinking Mitch didn't also suck lol.

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[Absinthe]

No way this dude stays healthy and even if he does he’s not worth that guaranteed contract.

I’m going to give small market teams some advice: if you have to overpay for mediocrity that isn’t going to push you over the hump then you’re better off staying mediocre, holding onto your money, and building through the draft. This move strikes me as a “we finally have money so we have to do SOMETHING” move and those are always the panic moves that sentence franchises to complete irrelevance. This would have been a decent signing for two years, but for four years this might be the worst contract in the league.