Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[yosemiteben]

If you told me before the draft that we were so confident that Ball was going to be a franchise guy that we were going to sign Hayward to a massive deal to help him out and be our second star, I wouldn't have believed you.

I like Hayward a lot, and I think games will be a lot of fun. I just think the lack of patience and strategy is showing.

[Braggins]

Read on Twitter

[JMAC3]

It's not impossible that it works. I'm willing to believe it might work.

But between letting Kemba walk, trading for Rozier for no apparent reason, and now having to waive an expiring Batum to sign another very top of market wing...

I just don't see a coherent strategy.

I think the Celtics are already having buyers remorse with Kemba, given Hayward missed all those games his injury wasn't the same. Kemba's knee is starting to be a chronic thing which is bad for a player his size who relies on speed for his game. Hayward game will age better (or it should). There has never been a concern about Hayward being passive or not giving effort- aka Batum. Hayward reminds me of Batum if he gave a single **** and had a set a balls.

Really the only thing that is disappointing in all this is that we had to stretch Batum and waste that cap space moving forward. But the way I see it these were our options.
1. Stretch Batum
2. Sign and trade Zeller or Rozier to Boston (They might have asked for more)
3. Give Knicks Rozier for free and let them absorb him into cap space
4. Trade Batum and Bridges(or first) to Thunder or Knicks

Not sure any of them were great options, but this way we kept most talent on team and kept all our picks.

Realistically we might be able to trade Bridges/Rozier for a first once we start to see how the rotations are playing out, which would make eating the 9 million for Batum a lot better than giving asset away for free.

[316Hornets]

There’s no excuse for waiving Batum; attach a pick with him and Zeller and send them to OKC for Horford. 9 mil a year for 3 years for a dead cap causality is inexcusable

Hayward will carry trade value, it's not a complete waste.

[Braggins]

If you told me before the draft that we were so confident that Ball was going to be a franchise guy that we were going to sign Hayward to a massive deal to help him out and be our second star, I wouldn't have believed you.

I like Hayward a lot, and I think games will be a lot of fun. I just think the lack of patience and strategy is showing.

Ya, the bright side is that Hayward is pretty good when healthy and plays a team oriented style that can help facilitate the development of the young guys, assuming they have the talent. The problem is that this is basically going all in on LaMelo being a true star, which is extremely premature, and even if thats the case it isn't ideal. The ceiling for this move is that its basically at least close to fine, but not ideal, and the floor is that this completely sabotages the rebuild process and the next 5-7 years are just a miserable repeat of the last 5-7 years. Thats also all assuming Hayward is relatively healthy. If he keeps getting injured and has a sharp decline in the next couple years then this could end up being the worst signing in franchise history (I don't think its all that likely to pan out that way, but its a real possibility).

[yosemiteben]

It's gonna take me a while to process that Hayward is on our team. This is just crazy.

Have to think the MLE is going to a vet big, we're all in now.

[fox2jk]

There’s no excuse for waiving Batum; attach a pick with him and Zeller and send them to OKC for Horford. 9 mil a year for 3 years for a dead cap causality is inexcusable

expiring contract are always hot at some point during the season. Hornets has 2.

[chellis20]

I didn’t see it but I only skimmed through the 11 pages here. If Hayward really wanted to go to Indy but Boston was being a bunch of greedy bitches, maybe we said we can make your dream come true and eventually trade him there for Turner or whatever.

But honesty, I’m not really down on the move. I’ve always liked Hayward and am personally glad he’s in a Hornets uni finally. I think he’ll help teach these young guys what it means to be a player in this league, show what it takes to win, and give us good play.

[James Gatz]

Some of you just want to pick in the lottery year after year after year and fantasize that you will win the number 1 pick and get Cade Cunningham. Well guess what OKC is playing a GLeague team this year, Detroit will be awful, Kings are always awful, Chicago will be awful again... there is no guarantee that we get even a top 5 pick.

I don't want to tank year after year. I just wanted to tank one more year for a draft that has a larger number of high upside wing players. The exact type of player this young core needs.

So basically by making this move we move from having a 55.6% at a top 5 pick to a 26.2% chance at a top 5 pick.

I'd rather have that additional 30% chance at a top 5 pick in a wing heavy draft.

I get the argument we wouldn't sign anyone with that space. I'd have little problem with overpaying someone like Hayward next offseason once we have two young building blocks. For 2020-2021 it's a short sighted move and saddening.

Teams that would have been worse than us:
OKC
CLE
NYK


Teams that will probably worse than us now:
OKC
CLE
NYK
DET
CHI
WAS
ORL?

[Teal25]

This move swaps Gordon Hayward for Nic Batum and is costing us $9m more in 2020-21 of cap space. Are we upset because we have less cap room next year and the year after or because we won’t be as bad as we thought we’d be?

It’s the latter for me. We can never just do a proper rebuild. It’s like someone just taken Tylenol instead of getting surgery to deal with their pain then they’re worst off then they were in the end. 4 years fully guaranteed is just ridiculous for someone with his injury history and stretching an almost 30 million EXPIRING contract to make it happen is insane. Luckily this team still sucks and the teams who’ve properly rebuilt are still better. We may still May end up with a bottom 4 record.

[vorbis]

It's gonna take me a while to process that Hayward is on our team. This is just crazy.

Have to think the MLE is going to a vet big, we're all in now.

entropy tells me to go ahead and welcome the newest Hornet, Hassan Whiteside *ducks flying tomato*

[yosemiteben]

It's gonna take me a while to process that Hayward is on our team. This is just crazy.

Have to think the MLE is going to a vet big, we're all in now.

entropy tells me to go ahead and welcome the newest Hornet, Hassan Whiteside *ducks flying tomato*

I mean I can't say it wouldn't make sense.

[Braggins]

It's gonna take me a while to process that Hayward is on our team. This is just crazy.

Have to think the MLE is going to a vet big, we're all in now.

entropy tells me to go ahead and welcome the newest Hornet, Hassan Whiteside *ducks flying tomato*

At least give us Baynes, Giles, Willy Cauley-Stein, or hell, even Dedmon, instead of freaking Whiteside. Don't kick us while we're down.

[James Gatz]

It's gonna take me a while to process that Hayward is on our team. This is just crazy.

Have to think the MLE is going to a vet big, we're all in now.

entropy tells me to go ahead and welcome the newest Hornet, Hassan Whiteside *ducks flying tomato*

At least give us Baynes, Giles, Willy Cauley-Stein, or hell, even Dedmon, instead of freaking Whiteside. Don't kick us while we're down.

Whiteside at least helps us lose games unlike Baynes lol.

[Braggins]

entropy tells me to go ahead and welcome the newest Hornet, Hassan Whiteside *ducks flying tomato*

At least give us Baynes, Giles, Willy Cauley-Stein, or hell, even Dedmon, instead of freaking Whiteside. Don't kick us while we're down.

Whiteside at least helps us lose games unlike Baynes lol.

True, but I feel like hoping for a top pick is pointless now unless Hayward gets a serious injury (in which case god help us lol). The only thing to be happy about is that the team is set up to play good enjoyable basketball. Adding Whiteside probably won't get us into the top 5, but will sure make this team less enjoyable to watch.

[JMAC3]

Some of you just want to pick in the lottery year after year after year and fantasize that you will win the number 1 pick and get Cade Cunningham. Well guess what OKC is playing a GLeague team this year, Detroit will be awful, Kings are always awful, Chicago will be awful again... there is no guarantee that we get even a top 5 pick.

I don't want to tank year after year. I just wanted to tank one more year for a draft that has a larger number of high upside wing players. The exact type of player this young core needs.

So basically by making this move we move from having a 55.6% at a top 5 pick to a 26.2% chance at a top 5 pick.

I'd rather have that additional 30% chance at a top 5 pick in a wing heavy draft.

I get the argument we wouldn't sign anyone with that space. I'd have little problem with overpaying someone like Hayward next offseason once we have two young building blocks. For 2020-2021 it's a short sighted move and saddening.

Teams that would have been worse than us:
OKC
CLE
NYK


Teams that will probably worse than us now:
OKC
CLE
NYK
DET
CHI
WAS
ORL?

Hey man,

I get it. I was thinking the same thing at first. I would love to get another young guy to be a stud next to Lamelo potentially. However, maybe we already have that player. Graham or PJ I think both have a chance to become allstars.

Or maybe we say we have a bunch of young players who can be complimentary guys- what type player can trading our first rounder in next years draft get us?

As far as signing Hayward next year, it did not look like that was an option. We had a lot of leverage in free agency this year because not many teams had space available. Next year we would have significantly less leverage because so many teams have cap space we would be competing with 10 teams instead of 1 or 2.

I know I keep saying this, but I think this team has the highest upside of any team we have ever had.

[driveandkick]

I already see it.

Hayward is going to average 20/5/5....but not be good enough to drag us into the playoffs. We'll pick 9th and pick whoever falls in the draft....again.

That... doesn't sound terrible to me?

[driveandkick]

It's a huge risk but I really don't blame them. We had a chance to sign a really good player, so we're taking it. For teams like us these opportunities are few and far between. 30 really isn't that old with the way players take care of their bodies now. I absolutely love this for the development of our young players, Hayward is the ideal player to play alongside.

[luciano-davidwesley]

If this is all true and we are stretching Bumtum we truly are the dumbest team in professional sports.
Lolcats 4lyf

[Braggins]

I know I keep saying this, but I think this team has the highest upside of any team we have ever had.

This franchise has never won a playoff series, so this is an incredibly low bar. Also, the teams long term ceiling was actually the highest its ever been right before they signed Hayward. Its lower now than it was yesterday.