Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[SWedd523]

I already see it.

Hayward is going to average 20/5/5....but not be good enough to drag us into the playoffs. We'll pick 9th and pick whoever falls in the draft....again.

That... doesn't sound terrible to me?

You're one of those participation award type of folks aren't you

[JMAC3]

I know I keep saying this, but I think this team has the highest upside of any team we have ever had.

This franchise has never won a playoff series, so this is an incredibly low bar. Also, the teams long term ceiling was actually the highest its ever been right before they signed Hayward. Its lower now than it was yesterday.

Ehh I am not sure you can say the bar is lower because chances are we weren't signing a better player in the offseason next summer.

If you want to say we will pick lower because Hayward signing then I can agree with that, but we will still have a pick with Hayward

So you are looking at lets say the 6th pick vs Hayward and the 15th pick. Could be a net neutral. Also these are just projected picks and assume their will be a big difference in the type of player you receive with these two picks.

There are lot of factors to consider here as well, if you feel Hayward helps the development of your younger guys and teaches them to win and gives the team confidence that is worth value as well.

[driveandkick]

I already see it.

Hayward is going to average 20/5/5....but not be good enough to drag us into the playoffs. We'll pick 9th and pick whoever falls in the draft....again.

That... doesn't sound terrible to me?

You're one of those participation award type of folks aren't you

No. I just think this team is one piece away from becoming REALLY interesting based off the development of the young guys. If Hayward is going for 20/5/5 that means he's performing back at pre-injury levels and if we are still picking ninth next year that gives us the chance to get that final piece. Especially if next year's draft is everything it's hyped up to be.

[Braggins]

This might be me being overly pessimistic, but as good as Haywards efficiency was last year, that was playing as a 4th option for a top 5 team in the league with a top 5 coach. The last time Hayward was the man on a bad team he shot 43% from the field and 35% from 3pt and that was when he was 25 years old and before his injury issues. Granted, his numbers the season after that were damn good, but that was after the emergence of Gobert and adding a prime George Hill, but still... There is a possibility that he immediately looks worse playing for Charlotte than he did last year, which would be an epic disaster for the 1st year of a massive 4 year contract.

[LurkCobain]

After taking a nap, I feel a little better about this signing. Wr should have picked 8th this year, we just got lucky. There was no way we would pick better than 8th this year with the addition of Ball and cutting off the dead weight of the big man zombors/bacon. These guys are hungry that we have now. Cody is also coming off the books. We can trade miles and/or rozier by the deadline. Let's sit back and hope like hell the rookie bugs can combine their skill sets. We will be ok. Today is a new day.

[Hornet Mania]

If Hayward actually does end up around 20/5/5 I'm fine with it because we're probably pretty good. But I seriously doubt that's happening. This reads like a classic last payday before the cliff scenario. I just hope it doesn't prevent us from keeping Graham down the line (or Miles/Monk if they make a leap).

[chabber]

Kinda figured this was coming. We don’t tank on purpose. It’s not the right mindset to keep with this team, thinking they are going to act like Philly did or the Bobcats for the couple of years before we signed Al.

I hate the Batum stretch but signing Hayward, I kind of like it. Sticking it to Ainge I love. Hayward is a good fit and mentor for out young guys. He’ll work well as a first option on a low seed team or a 3rd on a really good one if the gods ever shine on us and we either draft or sign better players than Hayward. Anyway this team should be fun to watch and we’re better than we were yesterday. Bring on Baynes!

[JimmyPlopper]

I think you will see a resurgence in Hayward. In Boston - two of the teams best players were the same position as he was. He was fighting his way back from injury in an awkward fit. We saw glimpses of his past self throughout the season. Nice gamble for you guys - bold move, but I think it may work out. Combined with Lamelo, the offense is getting a nice jolt.

[Snidely FC]

win or lose I would simply rather watch the Martin Twins and Jalen McDaniels play than a ripe Gordan Hayward. I was excited about our young players. Now I'm not.

[LofJ]

I'll say this, Borrego has wanted to have a team that could really pass and move the ball since he arrived. We now have 3 guys who are really good playmakers in Graham, Hayward, and LaMelo. PJ has good court vision too (what can't he do?). The only position we're lacking in when it comes to passing is center.

[JMAC3]

30 Million is a lot of money a season, but you have to think that in 4 years when he is in the final year of his deal, that number will be a smaller percentage of the salary cap and there will be way worse contracts handed out over that time period.

[amcoolio]

Too bad we can't front load it so its 40/50/15/15

[Braggins]

This probably going to end up the worst contract of this offseason.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Hayward exemplifies the perfect player. He is one of the most unselfish stars in the league. If you want him to shoot, he can shoot. He can also keep the ball flowing. It's like watching waves crashing seeing this guy move the ball.

he missed 111 games in 3 years. this is super chandler parsons territory

He’s missed 81 games in the 17-18 with the injury in the season opener. He played 72/82 games rehabbing the following year. He’s not damaged goods. He had a great year last year.

He had a solid year no queation. However the injury was career changing. Hayward is still a hell of a player and I'd love to have him on the team still but he isn't the same player. He is tentative and at times he has an open lane to the hoop and for some reason he will pass the ball out.

Some games he will be an absolute god and shoot 15/18 then the next game he will struggle. He has a difficult time staying in front of players as well and doesn't have that same lift he once had.

Last November he was feeling numbness in his foot ( the one he broke) and even after he had a couple of months off after he broke his finger his foot was still bothering him which was a concern

Regardless I hope he works out for you guys and stays healthy because he is a solid player that is very unselfish and is fun to watch when he gets going.

[Braggins]

Last November he was feeling numbness in his foot ( the one he broke) and even after he had a couple of months off after he broke his finger his foot was still bothering him which was a concern

[JMAC3]

This probably going to end up the worst contract of this offseason.

I guess you could be right here, in a year where not many teams have cap space and not many free agents it kind of has limited the amount of money a deal can be worth.

Think Christian Wood at 3/41 has a chance to be a bad deal. Shows me something that Detroit did not believe in him after a year in their franchise.

Jordan Clarkson 3/52 has a chance, a lot for a bench player.

Galo 3/61 has a chance, especially if Atlanta has some younger wings develop and Galo is role player.

Bertans 5/80 is pretty bad for a guy who can't dribble, pass or play defense.

Harris 4/75. I like Joe Harris, but that is still a lot of money.

Malik Beasley 4/60 could be bad for a team that just spent the number 1 pick on the same position for a guy who was just in trouble for a gun charge (in a time when he should be on his best behavior, how do you think he will act now that you give him money money.

Hayward got a bigger deal than all these players, but he is also just better than all these players.

[JMAC3]

Assistant Coach Ronald Nored was teammates with Hayward at Butler.

[Braggins]

This probably going to end up the worst contract of this offseason.

I guess you could be right here, in a year where not many teams have cap space and not many free agents it kind of has limited the amount of money a deal can be worth.

Think Christian Wood at 3/41 has a chance to be a bad deal. Shows me something that Detroit did not believe in him after a year in their franchise.

Jordan Clarkson 3/52 has a chance, a lot for a bench player.

Galo 3/61 has a chance, especially if Atlanta has some younger wings develop and Galo is role player.

Bertans 5/80 is pretty bad for a guy who can't dribble, pass or play defense.

Harris 4/75. I like Joe Harris, but that is still a lot of money.

Malik Beasley 4/60 could be bad for a team that just spent the number 1 pick on the same position for a guy who was just in trouble for a gun charge (in a time when he should be on his best behavior, how do you think he will act now that you give him money money.

Hayward got a bigger deal than all these players, but he is also just better than all these players.

Clarkson's on average is probably the worst of the bunch in your post. Beasley's has the most downside because even though he is very talented he could knucklehead his way out of the league in a couple years. At least all those guys, except Galo, are at least fairly young and all the deals are for at least 40 million less (58 if you count the extra two years of Batum's cap hit). Galo is actually a comparable player to Hayward with similar injury issues, but a couple years older, and his deal is for half as much as Haywards (less than half with the Batum factor).

[Lwcasu]

A lot of this depends on the development of LaMelo, Washington, and Graham. I think they’re trying to surround LaMelo with talent to give him the best chance. I still don’t think they’re done either. I could see a center signed and Rozier traded too. We have something like $9 million left. Looks like the FO went all in here.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Bonnell reported that Charlotte will waive and stretch Batum, hopefully they haven't done it yet and are trying to make it work first. Why would Bonnell have a scoop like that.

Only way we could sign Hayward

We could have a deal for Zeller or Rozier...is pen to paper yet?

A boston poster suggested a three way sending Batum to OKC, Horford to Boston and Hayward to Charlotte, is that even possible?

I don't have the numbers in front of me or anything, but it's at least possible in theory. I guess my question would be how motivated the teams would be. As I recall, Horford has the longest deal and flipping for Batum makes sense, but OKC doesn't really seem rushed to open up room. I can't see Charlotte giving up an asset when they have the means to open up room without it (maybe a 2nd so they don't stretch Batum), and Boston may be reluctant to add anything too as they're giving up the only positive-value player, while taking on the worst asset. But if they view him as a positive player, than why not?

But yeah, it should be possible. I'm guessing the early announcement of stretching Batum is so Boston doesn't hound us with offers for a sign-and-trade.

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