Rumors and Discussion Thread (NYK and NBA) V - Elfrid Payton Sucks

[Chanel Bomber]

Anyone want to see RJ developed as a PG a la Simmons? I think he could thrive in that role over time.

I’d say decision-making/flow is basically tied for his best attributes with strength.

I don't think he can be a "point forward".

But he can be a forward with supreme playmaking skills for a wing. A la Jimmy Butler. Not exactly a distributor but a scorer who makes the right reads and good decisions for his teammates with the ball.

[god shammgod]

lonzo is gonna cost a 1st. and probably not a dallas one.

lonzo is like a slightly suped up frank. He doesn't run an offense in the half cour.t He is great in transition but is extremly limited in getting into the paint and creating for others. More of a "sytem" guard then a engine. Is that really what we are looking for?

He's an improvement no doubt...but he isn't getting us buckets when we need it so whats the point?

i agree with you (although he's more than slightly souped up) but he has a lot of limitations. this board likes him a lot more than i do.

[Dave DaButcher]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

this is some good advanced stats info. but why does he barely ever get any minutes on any team that he plays on? whats the catch?

It’s unclear. Perhaps he was simply in unfortunate situations with franchises notoriously bad at coaching and development like Dallas and OKC. Things should be much better for him now that he’s landed with the Knicks, given our outstanding track record for both.

[Dantares]

Burks at 2, RJ at 3?

Burks is more a sixth man role. Bullock would be the starter...

Hmm Burks played better last season so I’m assuming he’s going to start.

Does Burks play good defense tho? I really dont know his game. We know Bullock plays on both ends

[GONYK]

lonzo is gonna cost a 1st. and probably not a dallas one.

lonzo is like a slightly suped up frank. He doesn't run an offense in the half cour.t He is great in transition but is extremly limited in getting into the paint and creating for others. More of a "sytem" guard then a engine. Is that really what we are looking for?

He's an improvement no doubt...but he isn't getting us buckets when we need it so whats the point?

i agree with you (although he's more than slightly souped up) but he has a lot of limitations. this board likes him a lot more than i do.

The board is just looking for a not Elfrid to rally around

[DOT]

lonzo is gonna cost a 1st. and probably not a dallas one.

lonzo is like a slightly suped up frank. He doesn't run an offense in the half cour.t He is great in transition but is extremly limited in getting into the paint and creating for others. More of a "sytem" guard then a engine. Is that really what we are looking for?

He's an improvement no doubt...but he isn't getting us buckets when we need it so whats the point?

He shot 38% on a high volume of 3s last year, and his shooting % has gone up all 3 years

Plus he's a great theoretical fit next to RJ, and while he's not a downhill guy he's still good out of the PnR for Obi and Mitch

I'm for it depending on the cost.

[F N 11]

Waiting on a 5 page jump so I know something happened.

[Zenzibar]

We got Noel to fill the Mitch role so Mitch is redundant. Send Mitch out now in a trade for Bledsoe or Monk and then sign Cousins and MKG.

MOARRR NON-SHOOTERS

we securing a top 5 worse record though. Shooting matters and unless something changes outside of maybe Burks/Bulluck/Quickly we don't have many guys with trust worthy shots.

My Dude, Obi has an alomost 40% from 3.

[MaseInYourFace]

I don’t like Lonzo but he’s way better than anything we have at PG.

[Capn'O]

Kentucky puts out some really good players. Damn.

[mpharris36]

lonzo is gonna cost a 1st. and probably not a dallas one.

lonzo is like a slightly suped up frank. He doesn't run an offense in the half cour.t He is great in transition but is extremly limited in getting into the paint and creating for others. More of a "sytem" guard then a engine. Is that really what we are looking for?

He's an improvement no doubt...but he isn't getting us buckets when we need it so whats the point?

i agree with you (although he's more than slightly souped up) but he has a lot of limitations. this board likes him a lot more than i do.

agreed but its semantics..the things he's not good at is what we need from our PG.

I guess that was my point. He is a goo player but he isn't a 1st or 2nd option in an offense.

[Monk1718]

Hold on...Lonzo averaged 38% from 3?

[Strick]

Payton / Frank / DSJ
Burks / Quickley
RJ / Bullock / Iggy
Randle / Obi / Knox
Mitch / Noel / Davis

Another year of an unbearable starting lineup. I feel legit bad for RJ. The spacing will be worse than it was in Duke.

The 2nd unit does have potential to be a fun group to watch though honestly

[Traveyknicks23]

Cade or BJ Boston to the Knicks is about as a lock as Trevor Lawerence or Justin Fields to the Jets is.

Not with these new lottery rules

[thebuzzardman]

So, other than I hate Elf with heat of a thousand suns, the cost of the guys traded for so far is all around 5 million per - Davis, Elf, Burks and Noel.

As was stated a few times, that is far cheaper than the version of this Mills did, where they calculated they would have to overpay in a big way to get replacement level players. So that's good. Also, as stated, the amounts for each are small, but collectively, are almost less than what Portis alone got.

Easier to mix and match them, move them in multiple trades, one trade, etc, then try to move one Portis. Or honestly, even Ellington or Elf or Taj at their somewhat inflated salaries. And easier to add to DSJr and/or Frank who are around what, 7.5 million?

[mpharris36]

MOARRR NON-SHOOTERS

we securing a top 5 worse record though. Shooting matters and unless something changes outside of maybe Burks/Bulluck/Quickly we don't have many guys with trust worthy shots.

My Dude, Obi has an alomost 40% from 3.

38% on extremely low volume. If you watch him at dayton he turned down a lot of open looks from distance. Look at his shot chart he didn't even have a midrange game in college. This idea that he is some floor spacer is crazy. Can he potentially shoot at the next level? Sure, he has decent form. But this idea we can count on him right away as a legit weapon from deep is simply out of control.

[GONYK]

lonzo is like a slightly suped up frank. He doesn't run an offense in the half cour.t He is great in transition but is extremly limited in getting into the paint and creating for others. More of a "sytem" guard then a engine. Is that really what we are looking for?

He's an improvement no doubt...but he isn't getting us buckets when we need it so whats the point?

i agree with you (although he's more than slightly souped up) but he has a lot of limitations. this board likes him a lot more than i do.

agreed but its semantics..the things he's not good at is what we need from our PG.

I guess that was my point. He is a goo player but he isn't a 1st or 2nd option in an offense.

First option?

Look, Russell Westbrook isn't walking through that door.

John Wall isn't walking through that door.

[Monk1718]

Payton / Frank / DSJ
Burks / Quickley
RJ / Bullock / Iggy
Randle / Obi / Knox
Mitch / Noel / Davis

Another year of an unbearable starting lineup. I feel legit bad for RJ. The spacing will be worse than it was in Duke.

The 2nd unit does have potential to be a fun group to watch though honestly

Randle/Payton huge eyesores in that lineup

[Polk377]

I see it took about 40 pages and a Noel signing for people to calm down about Payton

[HarthorneWingo]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

this is some good advanced stats info. but why does he barely ever get any minutes on any team that he plays on? whats the catch?

It’s unclear. Perhaps he was simply in unfortunate situations with franchises notoriously bad at coaching and development like Dallas and OKC. Things should be much better for him now that he’s landed with the Knicks, given our outstanding track record for both.

It's because he turned down $75M.