Nuggets offseason moves

[The Rebel]

I don’t view Barton as a guy to match up with Bron and Kawhi. He’s small. But I’ll take your word on it.

I thought Grant was much better defensively than Porter in the playoffs. Porter, for all his obvious talent, still does a lot of dumb things on the court and often plays lackadaisical. At least that’s my perception.

It is odd with Barton as he is undersized but he knows how to match up with larger SFs and spread 4s as well as anybody 6'5" that I have seen in a long time, he is strong enough and has really long arms so that helps in addition to naturally being a little quicker than most. He is bad against small guards though, which is weird considering he should have the length and strength advantages.

Grant was not all that good in the playoffs, Davis was shooting something like 65% against him, he did well at times against Lebron but overall MPJ was much better at guarding Lebron. If you look at the game threads from those games you will see how many were shocked by MPJ. MPJ does well against SFs, but was terrible when getting switched onto guards or larger PFs. Mitchell obviously destroyed MPJ and was matchup hunting MPJ, but both did well at times against George and Kawhi, and both struggled at times against both of those guys.

You keep saying that about Grant, but he was given all the toughest defensive assignments in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and just took them on. That matters. You’re not going to shut down the league’s superstars but having someone that can at least bother them with length is important. I don’t think a small sample of playoff data is a good reason to assume that the opposite is true but that’s just me.

I still think the Nuggets have taken a step back defensively as of right now. But the off season isn’t done.

That is not true, Grant had the toughest defensive assignment against the Lakers but not in the other 2 rounds, not at all.
Who else were we going to put on Lebron with Barton out? Millsap and Jokic did well against Davis, Grant got tore up by him. Harris is too small to guard Lebron, so Grant and MPJ guarded Lebron. In the 2nd round Harris spent most of his time on Kawhi and Millsap and Craig spent most of their time on George, Grant spent most of his time guarding Morris SR.

[The_Hater]

It is odd with Barton as he is undersized but he knows how to match up with larger SFs and spread 4s as well as anybody 6'5" that I have seen in a long time, he is strong enough and has really long arms so that helps in addition to naturally being a little quicker than most. He is bad against small guards though, which is weird considering he should have the length and strength advantages.

Grant was not all that good in the playoffs, Davis was shooting something like 65% against him, he did well at times against Lebron but overall MPJ was much better at guarding Lebron. If you look at the game threads from those games you will see how many were shocked by MPJ. MPJ does well against SFs, but was terrible when getting switched onto guards or larger PFs. Mitchell obviously destroyed MPJ and was matchup hunting MPJ, but both did well at times against George and Kawhi, and both struggled at times against both of those guys.

You keep saying that about Grant, but he was given all the toughest defensive assignments in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and just took them on. That matters. You’re not going to shut down the league’s superstars but having someone that can at least bother them with length is important. I don’t think a small sample of playoff data is a good reason to assume that the opposite is true but that’s just me.

I still think the Nuggets have taken a step back defensively as of right now. But the off season isn’t done.

That is not true, Grant had the toughest defensive assignment against the Lakers but not in the other 2 rounds, not at all.
Who else were we going to put on Lebron with Barton out? Millsap and Jokic did well against Davis, Grant got tore up by him. Harris is too small to guard Lebron, so Grant and MPJ guarded Lebron. In the 2nd round Harris spent most of his time on Kawhi and Millsap and Craig spent most of their time on George, Grant spent most of his time guarding Morris SR.

Hmm. I just read an article last night specially pointing out, statistically, how tough the group of assignments Grant had in all 3 rounds. So we’ll have to disagree there unless you have statistical evidence that refutes that?

[The Rebel]

You keep saying that about Grant, but he was given all the toughest defensive assignments in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and just took them on. That matters. You’re not going to shut down the league’s superstars but having someone that can at least bother them with length is important. I don’t think a small sample of playoff data is a good reason to assume that the opposite is true but that’s just me.

I still think the Nuggets have taken a step back defensively as of right now. But the off season isn’t done.

That is not true, Grant had the toughest defensive assignment against the Lakers but not in the other 2 rounds, not at all.
Who else were we going to put on Lebron with Barton out? Millsap and Jokic did well against Davis, Grant got tore up by him. Harris is too small to guard Lebron, so Grant and MPJ guarded Lebron. In the 2nd round Harris spent most of his time on Kawhi and Millsap and Craig spent most of their time on George, Grant spent most of his time guarding Morris SR.

Hmm. I just read an article last night specially pointing out, statistically, how tough the group of assignments Grant had in all 3 rounds. So we’ll have to disagree there unless you have statistical evidence that refutes that?

I would love to see the article, I made the mistake of just watching the games and looking at the actual stats. Funny thing about many articles written by national writers about the Nuggets, they do not even watch the games and make a lot of assumptions. Just like this Woj tweet here,

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Here is the response from Matt Moore who is Colorado based as a national writer for CBS and attends a lot of Nuggets games.

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[Lava Rock Kid]

Seeded 5-8 in the west. They lost some good talent.

[Doctor MJ]

Losing Jerami Grant is a big setback IMO.

I'm really stunned by it. Given that it wasn't about money, just Grant wanting a starring role, to me that makes me think Grant is a fool.

I really thought Denver was the perfect place for him to be a player the whole league knew about and respected.

I also am not really sure what Detroit is doing. If I were them I wouldn't have been pursing someone like Grant at all.

Anyway, I could be wrong on my Grant assessment, but this seems like one of those things that's just horrible bad luck on the part of the franchise losing their guy.

And yeah, Grant was the 3rd most valuable player they had and the best to fit around their Big 2. This hurts. Good chance the Nuggets fall back a bit next season. (Though on the other hand, maybe Murray & Porter really take leaps forward, so we'll see.)

I understand why you would think that after the Lakers series, but Grant was no where near our 3rd most valuable player on the court the entire season nor the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs. In fact it is pretty easy to argue that the only reason he was in the rotation was his spot up shooting helped spread the floor for most of the season.

Fair enough, you know the Nuggets better than I do.

I do want to say: Consider me an honorary Nuggets fan for this team. I enjoyed watching the Lakers win the championship, but the best team to watch in the Bubble was the Nuggets. Totally in love with Jokic, Murray, and Jokic-Murray.

[Mickey8]

They will be in the top five in the western conference again but thats about it, they should have gone all in for Beal to be a legit contender for the title. Denver Nuggets FO and owners are settling for being average, thats why they will lose Jokic and Murray eventually. I dont see Grant as being a big loss , he had good series against Clippers defensively, but I think Clippers imploded internally , more than Grant being a great defensive stopper also he was below average in the regular season , good thing Grant didn't sign contract even though Denver wanted to overpay him.

[cjx]

The Mighty Denver Nuggets, your 2020-2021 NBA Champions, book it!

[Mickey8]

Also I think Dozier minutes will go up and I think he's the much better player than Craig, better defender as well.

[Alatan]

Losing Grant is not as tough for the Nuggets as other fans believe. He was a solid player and he somewhat filled the defensive hole at our wing spot but he was not that great.
He is an ok shooter, but nothing special. He is an ok defender, better near the basket and worse on the perimeter but again nothing special. As he was nearing free agency he tended to steal the offense and prove he can score. That irked me so much even as he would make some shots. Im glad we didnt match his contract, he is not worth it. We would not have won anything with or without Grant.

Plemlee is a nice guy but not an impactful player. An athletic energy guy with some passing ability but a net negative on both sides of the floor. Im glad he is of the books.

Craig was an energy on ball defender but a complete black hole on offense. He might be missed as a specialist of the bench for some matchups but its just a very small setback.

The bright side of losing Grant, Plumlee and Craig is that we open up minutes for our young guys. Im really interested to see how Bol, MPJ, Dozier and the new guys develop.

[Manimal]

So to summarize the Nuggets' offseason moves...

Lost:

Mason Plumlee
Jerami Grant
Torrey Craig
Troy Daniels
Keita Bates-Diop
Tyler Cook
Noah Vonleh

Added:

Facundo Campazzo
JaMychal Green
RJ Hampton
Zeke Nnaji
Isaiah Hartenstein
Markus Howard (two way)
Greg Whittington (two way)


I think it's fair to say they're a little bit worse off on paper, but not by much.

Grant is the biggest loss, but I think 80-90% of what he brought can be replaced by Green. The only thing they're truly losing is Grant's versatility to defend a guy like Lebron and other big SFs. But in terms of defending truer PFs, I think Green will actually be better. He's also an equivalent shooter and a better rebounder.

Plumlee is a solid player and I think replacing him with Hartenstein is a slight downgrade. At the same time, the Nuggets only need 15-20 minutes from the backup center, and Hartenstein is serviceable enough. Makes much more sense to pay him 1-2 mill per season than Plumlee the 8 mill he just got or the 14 mill they were paying him. Same situation with Grant (20 mill) vs Green (7.5 mill).

Losing Torrey Craig will hurt in some ways and I was more of a Craig fan than most Nugget fans. But at the end of the day, he's just an average rotation player. Good intangible and glue guy, but his on court production isn't anything that can't be replaced. Again, like Grant, it's really just his versality defensively that will be missed.

Campazzo is kind of a wild card to me and we'll have to see how he fits into the rotation. But as a guy who has plenty of experience overseas, he should be able to come right in and make an impact. Having an extra playmaker on the roster will be huge, as that was something that I feel was lacking in the postseason with Barton injured.

Most of the other moves are mostly irrelevant to this season's success in my eyes, but I do think they made some major improvements in the long term depth. I like Hampton a lot for the future and Nnaji seems like a guy who can be a solid rotation player. I love that the FO keeps stockpiling good young prospects every year, though they haven't always made the most of them as assets (like with the Beasley/Hernangomez/Vanderbilt trade).

The Nuggets have a history of doing really well at scouting and developing players, so that gives me some extra hope about even the two way guys. The first two guys the Nuggets ever signed to two way contracts were Monte Morris and Torrey Craig, who have obviously worked out quite well. Then you had PJ Dozier and Bol Bol, who have both also developed and now made it onto the regular roster. Doesn't mean that's always going to be the case, but I do like what I've read about Howard and especially Whittington. The latter is older and has always been uber talented, but it seems like he's beginning to really put it together now. If he works out, he's a guy who should be able to replace what Craig brought and potentially more.


Overall, I feel things have been more or less a wash. The biggest key to the Nuggets' continued improvement and success falls mostly on the development of MPJ and what kind of jump he can make. Also on Murray continuing the type of production and consistency he showed in the postseason. And finally, on whether or not Harris and especially Will Barton stay healthy, and can get back to the kind of production they've had in the past. I think they'll be just as good as they have been in the regular season the past couple years. They can have just as much success in the postseason, but a lot of that depends on minor things. I mean, two straight seasons they've gone to 7 games in both the first and second rounds. The difference between a first round exit and the WCF has been so minuscule both years. Nevertheless, I believe they're on the right track and if their young core continues to develop and improve, the sky is the limit.

[jordanwilliams6]

I worry about their defense a lot. A Jokic & MPJ frontcourt won’t cut it in the playoffs IMO.

I felt like they needed one more athletic wing defender and a player similar to Grant to add to the roster, and instead they lost Grant. With Murray & Jokic he is the perfect type of player for that team.

[timO]

Losing Jerami Grant is a big setback IMO.

they will start MPJ

And Harris, and have Barton too

Denver were deep, this FA they are slighty worse

[Jkam31]

Well, they resigned Millsap, it was a big win, I still think the Detroit signings are part of a S&T for Blake, and I would gamble if a were the Nuggets. The Torey Craig is a head scratching move, he defends the **** out of the court.

If they start the season with:

PG- Murray
SG- Barton
SF- MPJ
PF- Blake
C - Jokic

6th- Millsap
7th- Morris

It would be a gamble in MPJ taking a starter role and Blake being healthy, if it pans out would be an insane amount of talent. Probably the best passing front court in the league.

What makes you think it’s still a s&t? I want it to happen badly as I think there ceiling would rise I’d put them only behind the lakers if they got Blake. They’d have four player who can get 20 a night and 2 elite passers in the front court. Blake only has two years left so his contract isn’t bad at all, where is Harris in your scenario

[Soulyss]

Losing Jerami Grant is a big setback IMO.

Jamychal Green for $7.5m per year is better than Grant for $20m per year, imo. He's a solid role player, Green.

He's better value, I don't know if he's a better PLAYER..

[Soulyss]

Losing Jerami Grant is a big setback IMO.

they will start MPJ

And Harris, and have Barton too

Denver were deep, this FA they are slighty worse

Can MPJ guard the SF? Blake certainly cannot (and I don't know if I believe that trade is real).

[garlic]

Do you think Player B is worth ~2.5 the cost of Player A?

People act like Grant was carrying the Nuggets against the Lakers - he broke 20 points twice. Meanwhile, Lebron and Davis chewed the Nuggets up. 'Making them work for it' - sometimes if you look the part, people seem to overlook the results.

I think Grant is a nice piece and wish the Nuggets had been able to keep him on a reasonable deal. But they're lucky Grant didn't take them up on 3/60 when Green was apparently there for so much less.

Torrey Craig's reputation for defense also far exceeds the actual on court results. He's a replacement level player. Barton is superior and the Nuggets will improve if Barton is healthy enough to play his usual minute load.

I don't think losing Craig or Grant actually moves the needle much. The Nuggets best chance to improve was always a big trade or more consistency from MPJ. That hasn't changed, and as a silver lining MPJ should be locked into more minutes now. MPJ's defense significantly improved in the bubble (low bar it's true), he is far from a lost cause on that end. He doesn't even need to be a good defender, he just needs to not be terrible.

[Soulyss]

I think it's fair to say they're a little bit worse off on paper, but not by much. Overall, I feel things have been more or less a wash.

This is basically how I feel about their off-season as well. They needed to clear playing time for MPJ, but it's hard to say they are better or deeper than they were. Another deal could be in the works but right now I would call it a wash.

That said, other teams in the West did get better, so it should be an interesting season.

[psimanic1]

They will be in the top five in the western conference again but thats about it, they should have gone all in for Beal to be a legit contender for the title. Denver Nuggets FO and owners are settling for being average, thats why they will lose Jokic and Murray eventually. I dont see Grant as being a big loss , he had good series against Clippers defensively, but I think Clippers imploded internally , more than Grant being a great defensive stopper also he was below average in the regular season , good thing Grant didn't sign contract even though Denver wanted to overpay him.

You do know that to get Beal, WAS has to accept it? Yoy cant override id like in 2k? And with Beal saying he wants to stay, why would they want to trade him? Its not luke he got traded and Nuggets didnt try

[thamadkant]

Losing Jerami Grant is a big setback IMO.

Jamychal Green for $7.5m per year is better than Grant for $20m per year, imo. He's a solid role player, Green.

Watching the playoffs Nuggets are clearly re tooling for size... To combat Lakers.

They got mauled by Davis, Howard and Lebron front court.... Need big bodies. Jerami Grant is excellent defender and would be ideal against Warriors or Rockets matchup...

But Nuggets need size. Jamychal Green gives them a big body to grow around.

[TheNewEra]

Should of took the Blake Griffin sign and trade