Montrezl Harrell vs Serge Ibaka + Lakers vs Clippers

[Marrrcuss]

Guys, youre judging the lakers picking up Harrell like it was a trade for Ibaka.

Its an addition to their team. They added the 6th man of the year to their core.

Going off that then the clippers upgraded to a better player. Clippers had Trez they know if they upgraded in skill

I dont totally disagree, but ibaka needs to be set up. He doesn't create his own shot.

[TheNewEra]

Guys, youre judging the lakers picking up Harrell like it was a trade for Ibaka.

Its an addition to their team. They added the 6th man of the year to their core.

Going off that then the clippers upgraded to a better player. Clippers had Trez they know if they upgraded in skill

I dont totally disagree, but ibaka needs to be set up. He doesn't create his own shot.

We don’t need Ibaka to be a scorer just be a better defender and rebounder than Harrell. I’m sure Kennard and Lou Will can find him in the pick and pop or roll game

[Marrrcuss]

Never saw either person as much of a set up man.

[zimpy27]

Every impact stat favours Harrell
Box stats favour Harrell
Harrell won 6MOY

Are people underrating Harrell or overrating Ibaka?

Ibaka is not a good defender, he will be like Harrell on the Clips and fans will be begging for Zubac to start. Book it.

Its bitterness

That's a possible explanation for Clips fans but other team fans also seem to think this.

It must be recency bias for how Harrell struggled coming back from injury and dealing with death in his family.

Every impact stat out there shows Harrell was more impactful. Plus you can just watch and see Harrell has a couple elite NBA skills and Ibaka doesn't have any anymore.

[Yenrallik1111]

i have seen the comments that followed since R-Dawg were engaging in our debate. I must say it is hard not to chime in again.

I am reading things like serge can not create his own shot. I do not believe anyone has suggested that. but you can dump the ball into him on the block and he has moves to get a bucket. he can pick and pop and has range out to the three point line. So he does have an offensive game. I do not believe Harell has any of those abilities at this point in his career.

Marrrcuss is right, harell is an addition for the lakers. it is unclear to me though what his impact will be. for anyone to suggest the type of impact he will have based on his numbers is frankly shortsighted. different teammates with different skill sets, different system, coaching, and expectations potentially. what we know is how he plays. he has energy/hustle, physical play. but is quite limited in his technical skill on offense. he is likely best suited at the center but is a bit undersized. at the same time that is not the biggest concern in today's NBA.

Zimpy, you are simply wrong about Ibaka not being a good defender. there is no real way to measure things like presence. he alters shots and blocks a bit. he is a deterrent to the opposing team trying to get in the paint. plus he can body up the bigger center better then the smaller harell. His offensive game is by far more complete from a technical skill stand point. Also, I am not begging zubac to start over serge. even as a starter zubac played less minutes than serge and did not produce as much in points or rebounds (admittedly those are close though). I won't even touch on the defensive comparison between serge and zubac.

can only repeat myself so many times. I think people focus too much on what players do on previous teams and the numbers they have averaged. this in turn overshadows a players skill set, style of play, and how that impacts their new team

[og15]

Every impact stat favours Harrell
Box stats favour Harrell
Harrell won 6MOY

Are people underrating Harrell or overrating Ibaka?

Ibaka is not a good defender, he will be like Harrell on the Clips and fans will be begging for Zubac to start. Book it.

We're not expecting Zubac to not start. What specific stats are you considering here?

In the 2020 playoffs, the Raptors were better on offense and defense with Ibaka on the court. Same thing in 2019 playoffs. In 2018, better on offense, marginally worse (not statistically significant) on defense and overall + NetRtg.

Harrell on the other hand (and this isn't simply on him, but not in spite of him) when he was on the court in the playoffs, the team was massively negative, -25 pts/100 or lower, both seasons.

In terms of pure production, Harrell will score more per minute, he will be more efficient, he'll get more steals and blocks per minute even, but the jury is still out on his impact on team offense and more so defense in the playoffs. He will get his numbers, but he affects spacing, his inability to shoot means the ball handler in pick and rolls can be contained easier if game planned for (depending on the rest of the roster). In plays where he's not in the action, he doesn't really help the offense. Defensively, the effort seems to lack consistency in the playoffs, reasons, I don't know, could be playing better teams, greater intensity, fatigue, just not as motivated, I don't know.

Now, on the Lakers, he can be played with Davis, which minimizes some of the offensive issues, though not fully, AND, defensively Davis can cover for him. He might encroach on some of Davis' spots, Lakers will have to figure that out. I don't know what the touches will look like with the Lakers, the Clippers have him 21.9 FGA/100, that's what Kuzma takes, I don't think there will be that many shots available with the Lakers, but I don't know.

On the Clippers, he was the C and couldn't be played with Zubac who would be capable of covering for him, so on rosters without rim protectors who can also play on the perimeter, Harrell is purely a C, he's your last line of defense, he's your rim protector, and that can be hard when teams game plan to attack that in the playoffs.

[tiderulz]

On the Clippers roster - Ibaka is a better fit because they lack a rim protector, which IMO, was their biggest need coming into the offseason. The fact that he is a floor spacer is an added bonus

For the Lakers, IMO they are at their best with Anthony Davis at C, and they got by with a combination of JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard at C last year (letting Howard walk from the minimum without a replacement in place is a mistake). The upside of Harrell, as a player, is far greater than Ibaka.

So in summary - Harrell is the better player, and his weakness is covered by AD in LA. Ibaka is a better fit for the Clippers as they had a major rim protection hole.

wow, at this point not a chance R-Dawg. Ibaka has an inside out game on offense and can impact the defensive side of things better right now. he has more experience/has had more impact in meaningful games. then there is his size advantage. Harell is really, when it comes down to it, a hustle energy guy. virtually zero offensive game and undersized for the center position. a harell at age 33-34 would not be as good as Ibaka at age 33-34 if Harell can not at least develop a decent outside shot. even then I rather have Ibaka. this really is not even close IMHO.

anyone who really watched Ibaka, he does NOT have an inside out game. as for size, Ibaka 7 ft with 7'3 wingspan, Trez 6'8 with 7'4 wing span. Ibaka going to have problems guarding faster PF's, Trez would have advantage there. and Trez is 26, no need to even discuss what he would be like at 33.

[zimpy27]

Every impact stat favours Harrell
Box stats favour Harrell
Harrell won 6MOY

Are people underrating Harrell or overrating Ibaka?

Ibaka is not a good defender, he will be like Harrell on the Clips and fans will be begging for Zubac to start. Book it.

We're not expecting Zubac to not start. What specific stats are you considering here?

In the 2020 playoffs, the Raptors were better on offense and defense with Ibaka on the court. Same thing in 2019 playoffs. In 2018, better on offense, marginally worse (not statistically significant) on defense and overall + NetRtg.

Harrell on the other hand (and this isn't simply on him, but not in spite of him) when he was on the court in the playoffs, the team was massively negative, -25 pts/100 or lower, both seasons.

In terms of pure production, Harrell will score more per minute, he will be more efficient, he'll get more steals and blocks per minute even, but the jury is still out on his impact on team offense and more so defense in the playoffs. He will get his numbers, but he affects spacing, his inability to shoot means the ball handler in pick and rolls can be contained easier if game planned for (depending on the rest of the roster). In plays where he's not in the action, he doesn't really help the offense. Defensively, the effort seems to lack consistency in the playoffs, reasons, I don't know, could be playing better teams, greater intensity, fatigue, just not as motivated, I don't know.

Now, on the Lakers, he can be played with Davis, which minimizes some of the offensive issues, though not fully, AND, defensively Davis can cover for him. He might encroach on some of Davis' spots, Lakers will have to figure that out. I don't know what the touches will look like with the Lakers, the Clippers have him 21.9 FGA/100, that's what Kuzma takes, I don't think there will be that many shots available with the Lakers, but I don't know.

On the Clippers, he was the C and couldn't be played with Zubac who would be capable of covering for him, so on rosters without rim protectors who can also play on the perimeter, Harrell is purely a C, he's your last line of defense, he's your rim protector, and that can be hard when teams game plan to attack that in the playoffs.

You're quoting playoff stats where they played they played 10 games? Only against 2 teams and Ibaka was bigger than any guy opposing him. Then Harrell was coming off injury and dealing with a family death.

That is cherry picking. Why not go with the regular season where they played 60 games against league competition.

In any case, the regular season is upon us and we can circle back to this once we see them play.

[Yenrallik1111]

On the Clippers roster - Ibaka is a better fit because they lack a rim protector, which IMO, was their biggest need coming into the offseason. The fact that he is a floor spacer is an added bonus

For the Lakers, IMO they are at their best with Anthony Davis at C, and they got by with a combination of JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard at C last year (letting Howard walk from the minimum without a replacement in place is a mistake). The upside of Harrell, as a player, is far greater than Ibaka.

So in summary - Harrell is the better player, and his weakness is covered by AD in LA. Ibaka is a better fit for the Clippers as they had a major rim protection hole.

wow, at this point not a chance R-Dawg. Ibaka has an inside out game on offense and can impact the defensive side of things better right now. he has more experience/has had more impact in meaningful games. then there is his size advantage. Harell is really, when it comes down to it, a hustle energy guy. virtually zero offensive game and undersized for the center position. a harell at age 33-34 would not be as good as Ibaka at age 33-34 if Harell can not at least develop a decent outside shot. even then I rather have Ibaka. this really is not even close IMHO.

anyone who really watched Ibaka, he does NOT have an inside out game. as for size, Ibaka 7 ft with 7'3 wingspan, Trez 6'8 with 7'4 wing span. Ibaka going to have problems guarding faster PF's, Trez would have advantage there. and Trez is 26, no need to even discuss what he would be like at 33.

wow, okay. absolutely nobody is talking about Ibaka playing PF throughout this entire debate. I am fairly confident he will slot in at the center on the clippers and was that for the raptors. As for harell being able to guard PFs. fairly confident the bulk of his minutes are going to be at center with AD likely logging 30 plus at PF. not to mention at this point kuzma is on the roster and will likely get PF minutes because that is where he is best suited. so that point is well ... pointless. and do you watch raptors game regularly? did you watch their championship run? he hit clutch 3s, and not gonna suggest he has a plethora of moves inside, that would be silly. but he most definitely has a better skill set than harell. I am getting a somewhat confrontational vibe with your post, not sure what that is about. the point about comparing a 33-34 year old harell to a 33-34 year old serge was to illustrate what impact these guys will have at the later stages of their career. Harell's game does not age well as he depends a lot on his physical ability. That is his M.O. at this point. but I digress, i understand he only 26 and his game could develop into more. so it was a bit of a mute point, i understand that.

[Yenrallik1111]

Every impact stat favours Harrell
Box stats favour Harrell
Harrell won 6MOY

Are people underrating Harrell or overrating Ibaka?

Ibaka is not a good defender, he will be like Harrell on the Clips and fans will be begging for Zubac to start. Book it.

We're not expecting Zubac to not start. What specific stats are you considering here?

In the 2020 playoffs, the Raptors were better on offense and defense with Ibaka on the court. Same thing in 2019 playoffs. In 2018, better on offense, marginally worse (not statistically significant) on defense and overall + NetRtg.

Harrell on the other hand (and this isn't simply on him, but not in spite of him) when he was on the court in the playoffs, the team was massively negative, -25 pts/100 or lower, both seasons.

In terms of pure production, Harrell will score more per minute, he will be more efficient, he'll get more steals and blocks per minute even, but the jury is still out on his impact on team offense and more so defense in the playoffs. He will get his numbers, but he affects spacing, his inability to shoot means the ball handler in pick and rolls can be contained easier if game planned for (depending on the rest of the roster). In plays where he's not in the action, he doesn't really help the offense. Defensively, the effort seems to lack consistency in the playoffs, reasons, I don't know, could be playing better teams, greater intensity, fatigue, just not as motivated, I don't know.

Now, on the Lakers, he can be played with Davis, which minimizes some of the offensive issues, though not fully, AND, defensively Davis can cover for him. He might encroach on some of Davis' spots, Lakers will have to figure that out. I don't know what the touches will look like with the Lakers, the Clippers have him 21.9 FGA/100, that's what Kuzma takes, I don't think there will be that many shots available with the Lakers, but I don't know.

On the Clippers, he was the C and couldn't be played with Zubac who would be capable of covering for him, so on rosters without rim protectors who can also play on the perimeter, Harrell is purely a C, he's your last line of defense, he's your rim protector, and that can be hard when teams game plan to attack that in the playoffs.

You're quoting playoff stats where they played they played 10 games? Only against 2 teams and Ibaka was bigger than any guy opposing him. Then Harrell was coming off injury and dealing with a family death.

That is cherry picking. Why not go with the regular season where they played 60 games against league competition.

In any case, the regular season is upon us and we can circle back to this once we see them play.

og15, well explained. I am having a hard time understanding zimpy27's perspective. no disrespect to you zimpy27. I posted a response directed at you on this whole debate that I did not receive a response on, which is fine. I guess I just get intrigued by passionate NBA fans who have opposing opinions.

[ayyayyron]

I think Trezz is a better signing for LAL than Ibaka would be, but I think Ibaka is a better signing for LAC than Trezz would be.

The Lakers get their third consistent scoring option on top of what is already a good defensive team. Montrezl and Anthony Davis is a great frontcourt pairing and what Harrell brings on the offensive side is great for a team that previously only had two consistent offensive players. The defense Harrell lacks won't matter when Anthony Davis is on the floor with him - Davis can take the difficult defensive tasks (Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, etc.) and relax a little on offense and get a 25 point performance from Trezz. I think the fit is better than statistics can say.

Meanwhile, Ibaka for the Clippers is amazing. Ibaka is as good for the Clippers' locker room as Montrezl was bad for it. Ibaka is a defensive upgrade who won't get bullied by Jokic (or at least not as bad as Trezz did) and he brings good 3 point shooting as well. I'm not sure which of Zubac and Ibaka will start, though either way there won't be a defensive liability at center at any point of the game. If the two LA teams match up in the playoffs, Ibaka is a much better player for the Clippers than Montrezl would be, as he's far less likely to get steamrolled by Anthony Davis. This means that one of Kawhi and PG will guard LeBron and the other takes an easier defensive task to conserve energy for the offensive possessions. With Montrezl, that postseason matchup would have Kawhi on AD, PG on LeBron, and a less effective offense from the Clippers.

[mademan]

By almost every metric, Harrell is better. Harrell was also better in the 2019 playoffs when he was in shape. The only positive Ibaka has is Harrell's awful 10 game sample size after missing the early 8 bubble games and coming in out of shape.

I'll take the guy who was better by every stat for the entire year before the unique situation

[tiderulz]

wow, at this point not a chance R-Dawg. Ibaka has an inside out game on offense and can impact the defensive side of things better right now. he has more experience/has had more impact in meaningful games. then there is his size advantage. Harell is really, when it comes down to it, a hustle energy guy. virtually zero offensive game and undersized for the center position. a harell at age 33-34 would not be as good as Ibaka at age 33-34 if Harell can not at least develop a decent outside shot. even then I rather have Ibaka. this really is not even close IMHO.

anyone who really watched Ibaka, he does NOT have an inside out game. as for size, Ibaka 7 ft with 7'3 wingspan, Trez 6'8 with 7'4 wing span. Ibaka going to have problems guarding faster PF's, Trez would have advantage there. and Trez is 26, no need to even discuss what he would be like at 33.

wow, okay. absolutely nobody is talking about Ibaka playing PF throughout this entire debate. I am fairly confident he will slot in at the center on the clippers and was that for the raptors. As for harell being able to guard PFs. fairly confident the bulk of his minutes are going to be at center with AD likely logging 30 plus at PF. not to mention at this point kuzma is on the roster and will likely get PF minutes because that is where he is best suited. so that point is well ... pointless. and do you watch raptors game regularly? did you watch their championship run? he hit clutch 3s, and not gonna suggest he has a plethora of moves inside, that would be silly. but he most definitely has a better skill set than harell. I am getting a somewhat confrontational vibe with your post, not sure what that is about. the point about comparing a 33-34 year old harell to a 33-34 year old serge was to illustrate what impact these guys will have at the later stages of their career. Harell's game does not age well as he depends a lot on his physical ability. That is his M.O. at this point. but I digress, i understand he only 26 and his game could develop into more. so it was a bit of a mute point, i understand that.

I did watch Toronto 2 years ago, i agree he hit clutch 3;s. that is an outside in game, not an inside out. Trez can guard centers and some PF's with his length. Ibaka will have a problem guarding PF's. your wrong on your vibe, nothing personal or confrontational. Ibaka just moved away from an inside game about 7 years ago when he developed his 3 pt shot. As for Trez's impact at 33, that has nothing to do with this signing right now and for this recently signed contract.

[Commodor]

Harrell will help LAL improve their regular season record.

As a GSW fan, it doesn’t make them any more scary in the playoffs.

Centers who can’t shoot and don’t play defense particularly well are not of concern.

Triston Thompson 2.0

[Yenrallik1111]

anyone who really watched Ibaka, he does NOT have an inside out game. as for size, Ibaka 7 ft with 7'3 wingspan, Trez 6'8 with 7'4 wing span. Ibaka going to have problems guarding faster PF's, Trez would have advantage there. and Trez is 26, no need to even discuss what he would be like at 33.

wow, okay. absolutely nobody is talking about Ibaka playing PF throughout this entire debate. I am fairly confident he will slot in at the center on the clippers and was that for the raptors. As for harell being able to guard PFs. fairly confident the bulk of his minutes are going to be at center with AD likely logging 30 plus at PF. not to mention at this point kuzma is on the roster and will likely get PF minutes because that is where he is best suited. so that point is well ... pointless. and do you watch raptors game regularly? did you watch their championship run? he hit clutch 3s, and not gonna suggest he has a plethora of moves inside, that would be silly. but he most definitely has a better skill set than harell. I am getting a somewhat confrontational vibe with your post, not sure what that is about. the point about comparing a 33-34 year old harell to a 33-34 year old serge was to illustrate what impact these guys will have at the later stages of their career. Harell's game does not age well as he depends a lot on his physical ability. That is his M.O. at this point. but I digress, i understand he only 26 and his game could develop into more. so it was a bit of a mute point, i understand that.

I did watch Toronto 2 years ago, i agree he hit clutch 3;s. that is an outside in game, not an inside out. Trez can guard centers and some PF's with his length. Ibaka will have a problem guarding PF's. your wrong on your vibe, nothing personal or confrontational. Ibaka just moved away from an inside game about 7 years ago when he developed his 3 pt shot. As for Trez's impact at 33, that has nothing to do with this signing right now and for this recently signed contract.

ahh, did you miss that part that I bolded about the PF aspect of your argument?? I am not sure why you feel the need to reiterate that Serge would have a difficulty guarding PFs when he has exclusively been a center. At the same time I can kind of understand why you might be making that point again. if you watched raptors games 2 years ago yeah he played PF more. but the last two seasons that you have not watched him he has been a center like I said. I was not suggesting his ability to hit 3s was an example of an inside game in any way. As far as Ibaka moving away from an inside game 7 years ago. I won't argue he started shooting more and more but he still has skills inside. Maybe I have just seen it more the last two years watching the raptors when you have not been watching him as you stated. and again ... as ... I ... said, I am not suggesting he has a plethora of moves inside but he does have more of a skill set than Harell.

glad to hear there is nothing confrontational going on, I appreciate the assurance on that front. As for the comment you made again about how trez would look at 33. if you look at my response I conceded on that so no point reiterating that again.

sorry man, it seems like you did not really take the time to read my post as some of what you are saying is kind of redundant and repetitive. in turn I feel like I am being repetitive having to explain my point again

[og15]

Every impact stat favours Harrell
Box stats favour Harrell
Harrell won 6MOY

Are people underrating Harrell or overrating Ibaka?

Ibaka is not a good defender, he will be like Harrell on the Clips and fans will be begging for Zubac to start. Book it.

We're not expecting Zubac to not start. What specific stats are you considering here?

In the 2020 playoffs, the Raptors were better on offense and defense with Ibaka on the court. Same thing in 2019 playoffs. In 2018, better on offense, marginally worse (not statistically significant) on defense and overall + NetRtg.

Harrell on the other hand (and this isn't simply on him, but not in spite of him) when he was on the court in the playoffs, the team was massively negative, -25 pts/100 or lower, both seasons.

In terms of pure production, Harrell will score more per minute, he will be more efficient, he'll get more steals and blocks per minute even, but the jury is still out on his impact on team offense and more so defense in the playoffs. He will get his numbers, but he affects spacing, his inability to shoot means the ball handler in pick and rolls can be contained easier if game planned for (depending on the rest of the roster). In plays where he's not in the action, he doesn't really help the offense. Defensively, the effort seems to lack consistency in the playoffs, reasons, I don't know, could be playing better teams, greater intensity, fatigue, just not as motivated, I don't know.

Now, on the Lakers, he can be played with Davis, which minimizes some of the offensive issues, though not fully, AND, defensively Davis can cover for him. He might encroach on some of Davis' spots, Lakers will have to figure that out. I don't know what the touches will look like with the Lakers, the Clippers have him 21.9 FGA/100, that's what Kuzma takes, I don't think there will be that many shots available with the Lakers, but I don't know.

On the Clippers, he was the C and couldn't be played with Zubac who would be capable of covering for him, so on rosters without rim protectors who can also play on the perimeter, Harrell is purely a C, he's your last line of defense, he's your rim protector, and that can be hard when teams game plan to attack that in the playoffs.

You're quoting playoff stats where they played they played 10 games? Only against 2 teams and Ibaka was bigger than any guy opposing him. Then Harrell was coming off injury and dealing with a family death.

That is cherry picking. Why not go with the regular season where they played 60 games against league competition.

In any case, the regular season is upon us and we can circle back to this once we see them play.

I'm not sure how cherry picking makes sense in this context. The whole concern Clippers fans have with Harrell as a Clipper is playoff performance, citing his regular season performance doesn't help to address that.

Now we're talking about defense between the two, for the Clippers team. Ibaka is an average range defender, for the most part, Harrell is in the average range too, but in the post-season, Harrell has had issues with defense. You say the sample size is too small, that might be true, but it is all we have. The regular season sample doesn't address the concerns.

Now, I cited two seasons, not just one, and the Raptors played multiple opponents in that span. With two seasons data, for Harrell it was the same result vs GS in 2019, team much worse with him on the floor in the playoffs, and yes, there are confounding factors, but the 19 games over the last two seasons is all I can go by for playoff performance.

For Ibaka though, that's a 35 game playoff sample size, not sure why you would suggest there's a sample size problem there.

It's not infallible, doesn't address every aspect or matchup, but it is what we have. For the Clippers, the issue is that Harrell can only effectively be a C and therefore the "biggest" player on the floor when he's on. With the Lakers that should change. Harrell has better mobility and perimeter defense, but Ibaka guards better in space, plays bigger and makes better reads. Harrell will benefit from being on a team that has a bigger, much superior defender that he can theoretically play next to. The Clippers will benefit defensively from Ibaka playing bigger and being more suited as a C on defense than Harrell. Ibaka will be a better defender for the Clippers assuming neither has any significant change in their abilities.

What Harrell will be defensively for the Lakers, I don't know, but most teams simply don't have a offensively perimeter capable and C capable player Iike Davis; allowing Harrell to be a PF on defense and not have to be the anchor/last line of defense.

For example, Harrell would work well with Gobert behind him, but the offense would suffer too much to have Harrell/Gobert on together, so it doesn't really matter how well they could theoretically fit on defense when you would never run that lineup for more than super short spurts, and certainly not in a playoff series.

[Yenrallik1111]

I think Trezz is a better signing for LAL than Ibaka would be, but I think Ibaka is a better signing for LAC than Trezz would be.

The Lakers get their third consistent scoring option on top of what is already a good defensive team. Montrezl and Anthony Davis is a great frontcourt pairing and what Harrell brings on the offensive side is great for a team that previously only had two consistent offensive players. The defense Harrell lacks won't matter when Anthony Davis is on the floor with him - Davis can take the difficult defensive tasks (Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, etc.) and relax a little on offense and get a 25 point performance from Trezz. I think the fit is better than statistics can say.

Meanwhile, Ibaka for the Clippers is amazing. Ibaka is as good for the Clippers' locker room as Montrezl was bad for it. Ibaka is a defensive upgrade who won't get bullied by Jokic (or at least not as bad as Trezz did) and he brings good 3 point shooting as well. I'm not sure which of Zubac and Ibaka will start, though either way there won't be a defensive liability at center at any point of the game. If the two LA teams match up in the playoffs, Ibaka is a much better player for the Clippers than Montrezl would be, as he's far less likely to get steamrolled by Anthony Davis. This means that one of Kawhi and PG will guard LeBron and the other takes an easier defensive task to conserve energy for the offensive possessions. With Montrezl, that postseason matchup would have Kawhi on AD, PG on LeBron, and a less effective offense from the Clippers.

I feel like you have the roles a little mixed up between AD and trez. IMHO AD is not on the court to make up for trez or to take on the bigger match ups like Jokic or Embiid. AD is the extremely talented all-star that the lakers rely on heavily to produce on offense. of course AD is a very capable defender and will help the team in general on defense. but I would have trez coming into the game giving energy and a pesky physical defender against the jokic's and embiid's, allowing AD not to get beat up saving energy for the offensive demands. I see the lakers hoping they can get more out of trez defensively and not worry about him producing as much offensively. if he can give the lakers like ... 13 and about 10 I imagine that would be more ideal than 18 and 7. That would be more my thinking as Pelinka/Fogel when signing Trez and the role I would envision for him. not to mention that AD has very clearly stated he does not like the idea of being the go to center. teams tend to listen to their cornerstone franchise players.

[tiderulz]

wow, okay. absolutely nobody is talking about Ibaka playing PF throughout this entire debate. I am fairly confident he will slot in at the center on the clippers and was that for the raptors. As for harell being able to guard PFs. fairly confident the bulk of his minutes are going to be at center with AD likely logging 30 plus at PF. not to mention at this point kuzma is on the roster and will likely get PF minutes because that is where he is best suited. so that point is well ... pointless. and do you watch raptors game regularly? did you watch their championship run? he hit clutch 3s, and not gonna suggest he has a plethora of moves inside, that would be silly. but he most definitely has a better skill set than harell. I am getting a somewhat confrontational vibe with your post, not sure what that is about. the point about comparing a 33-34 year old harell to a 33-34 year old serge was to illustrate what impact these guys will have at the later stages of their career. Harell's game does not age well as he depends a lot on his physical ability. That is his M.O. at this point. but I digress, i understand he only 26 and his game could develop into more. so it was a bit of a mute point, i understand that.

I did watch Toronto 2 years ago, i agree he hit clutch 3;s. that is an outside in game, not an inside out. Trez can guard centers and some PF's with his length. Ibaka will have a problem guarding PF's. your wrong on your vibe, nothing personal or confrontational. Ibaka just moved away from an inside game about 7 years ago when he developed his 3 pt shot. As for Trez's impact at 33, that has nothing to do with this signing right now and for this recently signed contract.

ahh, did you miss that part that I bolded about the PF aspect of your argument?? I am not sure why you feel the need to reiterate that Serge would have a difficulty guarding PFs when he has exclusively been a center. At the same time I can kind of understand why you might be making that point again. if you watched raptors games 2 years ago yeah he played PF more. but the last two seasons that you have not watched him he has been a center like I said. I was not suggesting his ability to hit 3s was an example of an inside game in any way. As far as Ibaka moving away from an inside game 7 years ago. I won't argue he started shooting more and more but he still has skills inside. Maybe I have just seen it more the last two years watching the raptors when you have not been watching him as you stated. and again ... as ... I ... said, I am not suggesting he has a plethora of moves inside but he does have more of a skill set than Harell.

glad to hear there is nothing confrontational going on, I appreciate the assurance on that front. As for the comment you made again about how trez would look at 33. if you look at my response I conceded on that so no point reiterating that again.

sorry man, it seems like you did not really take the time to read my post as some of what you are saying is kind of redundant and repetitive. in turn I feel like I am being repetitive having to explain my point again

i did read it. and when you are talking about a signing and how it helps, you look at all the ways a player can help. Trez can guard centers and PF's. so he can play or backup both those positions. Ibaka is really only going to be able to play center. That will limit how he can be used and that again goes back to the signings and how those players can help.

[Yenrallik1111]

I did watch Toronto 2 years ago, i agree he hit clutch 3;s. that is an outside in game, not an inside out. Trez can guard centers and some PF's with his length. Ibaka will have a problem guarding PF's. your wrong on your vibe, nothing personal or confrontational. Ibaka just moved away from an inside game about 7 years ago when he developed his 3 pt shot. As for Trez's impact at 33, that has nothing to do with this signing right now and for this recently signed contract.

ahh, did you miss that part that I bolded about the PF aspect of your argument?? I am not sure why you feel the need to reiterate that Serge would have a difficulty guarding PFs when he has exclusively been a center. At the same time I can kind of understand why you might be making that point again. if you watched raptors games 2 years ago yeah he played PF more. but the last two seasons that you have not watched him he has been a center like I said. I was not suggesting his ability to hit 3s was an example of an inside game in any way. As far as Ibaka moving away from an inside game 7 years ago. I won't argue he started shooting more and more but he still has skills inside. Maybe I have just seen it more the last two years watching the raptors when you have not been watching him as you stated. and again ... as ... I ... said, I am not suggesting he has a plethora of moves inside but he does have more of a skill set than Harell.

glad to hear there is nothing confrontational going on, I appreciate the assurance on that front. As for the comment you made again about how trez would look at 33. if you look at my response I conceded on that so no point reiterating that again.

sorry man, it seems like you did not really take the time to read my post as some of what you are saying is kind of redundant and repetitive. in turn I feel like I am being repetitive having to explain my point again

i did read it. and when you are talking about a signing and how it helps, you look at all the ways a player can help. Trez can guard centers and PF's. so he can play or backup both those positions. Ibaka is really only going to be able to play center. That will limit how he can be used and that again goes back to the signings and how those players can help.

well, I think teams also bring in players knowing where they want to plug them in. again ... as I have been said repeatedly Serge will likely play center exclusively. so yes "Ibaka is really only going to be able to play center". I do not see the clippers having any expectations of him playing any real minutes at PF or any at all really ... like I have said. While I have not argued trez's ability to guard the PF position I do not see the Lakers wanting him for that role as they already have a lot minutes obligated to AD and likely Kuzma ... like I have already said. Trez might have ability on the defensive end at PF but I can not see the fit on offense. AD does not want to play center and get banged around risking injury. I do not believe the lakers want that either.

I think I am just about done doing the whole broken record thing. I do not want my frustrations to get the best of me and say something silly or disrespectful to you tiderulz

[PistolPeteJR]

Ibaka, but I think a good backup C signing like Gasol could bounce the off-season back in the Lakers’ favor.

Tada.