Trade Thread #8: All Gordon things come to an End

[jirrit]

I come in peace.

I think the right move for your team is to package Kemba and Jaylen for an upgrade. Maybe Paul George or Bradley Beal?

Shift from having 4 mid to low tier stars into 2 top tier stars

You then can easily build Tatum and a top tier star with role players that Ainge is good at.

I kinda agree but disagree with the brought up names. I’d say Curry or Lillard maybe. Cant really find a good one.

[76ciology]

Kemba and Jaylen Brown for PG-13%?

No thanks.

Maybe Beal? Maybe even try it for Harden.

What you got to keep in mind is that, though we love our team and our city, and as much as the Celtics are a premier franchise in terms of history, viewership, and franchise market value, we are not, of late, a location that true top-tier superstars are clamoring to force their way to.

One of the advantages of developing your own talent is that you can engender some loyalty, if you treat them right. It's one of several reasons why we haven't been in a rush to trade Tatum off for every flavor-of-the-month all-star that's come on the market, and is giving every indication that they are a serious flight risk to go to wherever they really want to be.

You guys should get it - you just got a first-hand taste of this with Jimmy. Same thing with the Raps. Yes, it paid off for them, but it was a much saner risk for them since they were staring down a rebuild coming soon one way or the other.

I'm very much the kind of fan who believes there's no such thing as untouchables - there are absolutely futures where anyone and everyone on our team gets traded, Tatum included. But, the deal's got to be right. In my opinion, staying the course with Brown and Tatum sets a high enough floor on us that, worst come to worst, you can hang around and hope Tatum really blooms, then maneuver for max cap space and try to lure some Super Friends once Tatum's fully established.

There are a whole bunch of paths that are not super palatable but are nonetheless viable, including selling off vets and taking a one-year dip back into the lotto to grab a few assets while Tatum and Brown are both still under wraps for a while. What we can't do is accidentally blow it all up completely, and lose both our young talent, and fail to retain the pieces we traded them for. That way lies 20 more years of doldrums.

But you get my point right?

I feel there’s two way to win in this league. Having 4-5 mid to low tier stars (A) and 2 top tier stars; superstars to near superstars (B).

Right now I see Celts to having 2 mid tier stars (Tatum and Kemba) and a borderline star in Jaylen. Tatum should have a window to be near superstar in the future.

I think when you guys lose Hayward you have to shift from option A to B. Next window is you guys can develop Brown and Tatum into atleast near superstars or you eventually get another low to mid tier star via draft or FA.

I think you guys are in good position nevertheless.
Staying the course could still make sense. But there’s an opportunity cost to every option like Kemba could decline and Jaylen could top off.

[76ciology]

I come in peace.

I think the right move for your team is to package Kemba and Jaylen for an upgrade. Maybe Paul George or Bradley Beal?

Shift from having 4 mid to low tier stars into 2 top tier stars

You then can easily build Tatum and a top tier star with role players that Ainge is good at.

I kinda agree but disagree with the brought up names. I’d say Curry or Lillard maybe. Cant really find a good one.

Yup someone like that. Curry lillard beal harden. Your choice

[76ciology]

Btw, Ive always liked how the Celts are built. Going heavy on wings and light on bigs. The build is always geared toward the play-offs where it’s mostly about match-ups.
This is the exact opposite of the Sixers, who is built for regular season basketball. And I think it’s evident with the two playoff series between these two teams in the last 3 years.

That Kemba-Brown-Hayward-Tatum was a really potent potent offensive 4 man unit designed for the play-offs.

And now without Hayward, the Celts will still be very good. But I think you guys lose an extra gear that you can go, to create a separation from the top teams.

I have the Celts and the Nets as the top two teams in the east for the playoffs, this season.

[SMTBSI]

I come in peace.

I think the right move for your team is to package Kemba and Jaylen for an upgrade. Maybe Paul George or Bradley Beal?

Shift from having 4 mid to low tier stars into 2 top tier stars

You then can easily build Tatum and a top tier star with role players that Ainge is good at.

I kinda agree but disagree with the brought up names. I’d say Curry or Lillard maybe. Cant really find a good one.

Yup someone like that. Curry lillard beal harden. Your choice

Curry's two years older than Kemba. Obviously you take him, but the window is short.
Lillard's going to be making $54mil in his year 34 season, and Portland ain't letting him go anyway.
Harden doesn't want to be here.
Beal you can make an argument, but don't see WAS trading him for a package centered on Brown. They seem to want to build around him.

Everyone but Beal is seriously off of Tatum's timeline.

Not saying we can't win with those moves, but each of them probably shrinks the window to now-or-never.

It's got to be someone who's not a decade older than Tatum, and who is at least persuadable to stick around.

I'm not totally against your strategy here, but, like jirrit, I don't see the name right now.

[Parliament10]

Maybe Beal? Maybe even try it for Harden.

What you got to keep in mind is that, though we love our team and our city, and as much as the Celtics are a premier franchise in terms of history, viewership, and franchise market value, we are not, of late, a location that true top-tier superstars are clamoring to force their way to.

One of the advantages of developing your own talent is that you can engender some loyalty, if you treat them right. It's one of several reasons why we haven't been in a rush to trade Tatum off for every flavor-of-the-month all-star that's come on the market, and is giving every indication that they are a serious flight risk to go to wherever they really want to be.

You guys should get it - you just got a first-hand taste of this with Jimmy. Same thing with the Raps. Yes, it paid off for them, but it was a much saner risk for them since they were staring down a rebuild coming soon one way or the other.

I'm very much the kind of fan who believes there's no such thing as untouchables - there are absolutely futures where anyone and everyone on our team gets traded, Tatum included. But, the deal's got to be right. In my opinion, staying the course with Brown and Tatum sets a high enough floor on us that, worst come to worst, you can hang around and hope Tatum really blooms, then maneuver for max cap space and try to lure some Super Friends once Tatum's fully established.

There are a whole bunch of paths that are not super palatable but are nonetheless viable, including selling off vets and taking a one-year dip back into the lotto to grab a few assets while Tatum and Brown are both still under wraps for a while. What we can't do is accidentally blow it all up completely, and lose both our young talent, and fail to retain the pieces we traded them for. That way lies 20 more years of doldrums.

But you get my point right?

I feel there’s two way to win in this league. Having 4-5 mid to low tier stars (A) and 2 top tier stars; superstars to near superstars (B).

Right now I see Celts to having 2 mid tier stars (Tatum and Kemba) and a borderline star in Jaylen. Tatum should have a window to be near superstar in the future.

I think when you guys lose Hayward you have to shift from option A to B. Next window is you guys can develop Brown and Tatum into atleast near superstars or you eventually get another low to mid tier star via draft or FA.

I think you guys are in good position nevertheless.
Staying the course could still make sense. But there’s an opportunity cost to every option like Kemba could decline and Jaylen could top off.

I think that you have to factor in the age of the players, too. Both physical age, and NBA age/experience.
Tatum, Brown & Smart are our core, going forward. Kemba, on the other hand, is at the latter side of his career.

With our Homegrowns, we have a team that's built for Contender longevity.
Also, the Camaraderie Factor can't be discounted either. This team gets along real well.

[Parliament10]

I kinda agree but disagree with the brought up names. I’d say Curry or Lillard maybe. Cant really find a good one.

Yup someone like that. Curry lillard beal harden. Your choice

Curry's two years older than Kemba. Obviously you take him, but the window is short.
Lillard's going to be making $54mil in his year 34 season, and Portland ain't letting him go anyway.
Harden doesn't want to be here.
Beal you can make an argument, but don't see WAS trading him for a package centered on Brown. They seem to want to build around him.

Everyone but Beal is seriously off of Tatum's timeline.

Not saying we can't win with those moves, but each of them probably shrinks the window to now-or-never.

It's got to be someone who's not a decade older than Tatum, and who is at least persuadable to stick around.

I'm not totally against your strategy here, but, like jirrit, I don't see the name right now.

Yeah same here, I'm not totally against the strategy. But it's got to jive with the timeline.

[Parliament10]

Celtics have Kemba for a bit. Maybe longer, if he holds up.
But again, the True longevity strength lies in Tatum, Brown & Smart, in that order.

What we need to do is shore up some of our other positions, for the long haul.
Until we do that, then we're just a team jockeying for the right formula, every year.

[Darthlukey]

Btw, Ive always liked how the Celts are built. Going heavy on wings and light on bigs. The build is always geared toward the play-offs where it’s mostly about match-ups.
This is the exact opposite of the Sixers, who is built for regular season basketball. And I think it’s evident with the two playoff series between these two teams in the last 3 years.

That Kemba-Brown-Hayward-Tatum was a really potent potent offensive 4 man unit designed for the play-offs.

And now without Hayward, the Celts will still be very good. But I think you guys lose an extra gear that you can go, to create a separation from the top teams.

I have the Celts and the Nets as the top two teams in the east for the playoffs, this season.

I agree mostly with the premise about the wings. Having that flexibility and versatility is brilliant. But a lot of it got undone since our 5 is small and our 1 is tiny. The versatility gets negated a lot if one (or two) of our players can be targeted repeatedly

[76ciology]

Btw, Ive always liked how the Celts are built. Going heavy on wings and light on bigs. The build is always geared toward the play-offs where it’s mostly about match-ups.
This is the exact opposite of the Sixers, who is built for regular season basketball. And I think it’s evident with the two playoff series between these two teams in the last 3 years.

That Kemba-Brown-Hayward-Tatum was a really potent potent offensive 4 man unit designed for the play-offs.

And now without Hayward, the Celts will still be very good. But I think you guys lose an extra gear that you can go, to create a separation from the top teams.

I have the Celts and the Nets as the top two teams in the east for the playoffs, this season.

I agree mostly with the premise about the wings. Having that flexibility and versatility is brilliant. But a lot of it got undone since our 5 is small and our 1 is tiny. The versatility gets negated a lot if one (or two) of our players can be targeted repeatedly

What teams dont understand is you have to be able to play big and small. Kind of how the Lakers play with their frontcourt. They can pair AD with D12 or AD with Morris.

I understand the fit with Theis. If you have that good of length and defense at the wings, you don’t really need a Rudy Gobert or Whiteside. And it’s actually good for the modern NBA. But you also need the personnel that allows you to counter Embiid or Bam.

This is kind of why Celts and Heat got guys like Kendrick Perkins or Joel Anthony for

And this is why the Rox went wrong by going all in to that gimmick of micro ball.

[SMTBSI]

And this is why the Rox went wrong by going all in to that gimmick of micro ball.

Now this we agree on completely. They outsmarted themselves. Everyone on earth but them knew that wasn't going to work.

[ConstableGeneva]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

[Higgs Boston]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

Put celtics instead of knicks and those are his best options.

[ConstableGeneva]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

Put celtics instead of knicks and those are his best options.

Cs won't be able to open up cap space even if we somehow trade Kemba without salary coming back. Only way we have a chance is Giannis wants to join us and only us. Force an S&T. So basically, no chance lol.

[Higgs Boston]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

Put celtics instead of knicks and those are his best options.

Cs won't be able to open up cap space even if we somehow trade Kemba without salary coming back. Only way we have a chance is Giannis wants to join us and only us. Force an S&T. So basically, no chance lol.

it was for that reason I said those are his best options, so basically his best options are set up except us.

[Darthlukey]

Btw, Ive always liked how the Celts are built. Going heavy on wings and light on bigs. The build is always geared toward the play-offs where it’s mostly about match-ups.
This is the exact opposite of the Sixers, who is built for regular season basketball. And I think it’s evident with the two playoff series between these two teams in the last 3 years.

That Kemba-Brown-Hayward-Tatum was a really potent potent offensive 4 man unit designed for the play-offs.

And now without Hayward, the Celts will still be very good. But I think you guys lose an extra gear that you can go, to create a separation from the top teams.

I have the Celts and the Nets as the top two teams in the east for the playoffs, this season.

I agree mostly with the premise about the wings. Having that flexibility and versatility is brilliant. But a lot of it got undone since our 5 is small and our 1 is tiny. The versatility gets negated a lot if one (or two) of our players can be targeted repeatedly

What teams dont understand is you have to be able to play big and small. Kind of how the Lakers play with their frontcourt. They can pair AD with D12 or AD with Morris.

I understand the fit with Theis. If you have that good of length and defense at the wings, you don’t really need a Rudy Gobert or Whiteside. And it’s actually good for the modern NBA. But you also need the personnel that allows you to counter Embiid or Bam.

This is kind of why Celts and Heat got guys like Kendrick Perkins or Joel Anthony for

And this is why the Rox went wrong by going all in to that gimmick of micro ball.

Agreed, but its kinda hard to compare when the example you cited has the best, most versatile big man in the game. No one else in the league can make that switch anywhere near as easily.

[FlatearthZorro]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

If we can dump Kemba, we might have the money to chase Giannis. I'm sorry, but there's no way a 33-34 year old Butler and a 35-36 year old Dragic + Adebayo(who's not a good match with Giannis) and their 2 shooters is better than Brown/Smart/Tatum. We will see tho, time will show.

[Triple7]

I come in peace.

I think the right move for your team is to package Kemba and Jaylen for an upgrade. Maybe Paul George or Bradley Beal?

Shift from having 4 mid to low tier stars into 2 top tier stars

You then can easily build Tatum and a top tier star with role players that Ainge is good at.

Playoff P??? Hahaha

[Ernest]

Been offline all day, did you guys get Ainge fired yet?

[ConstableGeneva]

Who are the teams that are set up for the Greek Freak chase next offseason? Bucks, Heat, Mavs, Knicks, Raptors... who else?

If we can dump Kemba, we might have the money to chase Giannis. I'm sorry, but there's no way a 33-34 year old Butler and a 35-36 year old Dragic + Adebayo(who's not a good match with Giannis) and their 2 shooters is better than Brown/Smart/Tatum. We will see tho, time will show.

Mathematically impossible to keep all three of Tatum/Brown/Smart and have cap space to sign Giannis at his max number. Unless the cap goes up to something like $116.5M. And even then we have to dump literally everybody including draft picks. So it's Giannis, Tatum, Brown, Smart, full MLE guy, BAE guy, and bunch of veteran minimum guys.

S&T is our only path.