The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#981 » by Dupp » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:05 am

homecourtloss wrote:
Dupp wrote:
dcstanley wrote:Lakers addressed their issues scoring in the half court without sacrificing defense. This team is really versatile.. Can throw out offense oriented lineups like Schroeder/KCP/Bron/Trez/AD and defensive lineups like Caruso/Matthews/Bron/AD/Gasol.


How good of a defender is Mathews though? He’s a minimum player for a reason I’d imagine. 3 and d guys aren’t easy to come but, let a Lomé for the minimum.


DRPM, DPIPM, DRAPTOR love him, especially in the playoffs.

He defended Harden particularly well last year.

He defended Butler, Dragic, and Herro really well (they shot 8/23 collectively against Wes’s contests)

Opponents in the playoffs shot 28.2% from three against him.



Yeah I knew he did great on butler in the playoffs. Figured over the course of the season he must be pretty average defensively since he can shoot and go a nothing contract.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#982 » by Dupp » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:07 am

MisterHibachi wrote:
Dupp wrote:
JLei wrote:
The vet minimum. $2.7.



So why are they moving magoo? What else is happening


Likely to get room to offer Kieff a 120% raise to return.



That would round things off really nice. He was great in the playoffs for his price.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#983 » by xb3at band1tx » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:40 am

This feels like LeBron's best team top to bottom on paper
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#984 » by J Shuttlesworth » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:37 am

Roster is looking great so far. Should have enough scoring to keep LeBron low on minutes in the regular season. We always wonder every year if LeBron will show a significant decline. That would really be the only thing stopping them from winning and even then... It's possible LeBron could be 90% as good as last year and they could still win this year since AD will be more confident, and the team has more depth. Can't wait to watch these guys play. Really like all the moves
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#985 » by Slava » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:28 am

Lakers also have Cacock and Kostas Antetotounmpo on two way deals who are extremely athletic rim running bigs. I rate both of them and I think Kostas in particular has untapped potential.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#986 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:01 am

xb3at band1tx wrote:This feels like LeBron's best team top to bottom on paper


Something thats interesting is i dont think people quite get how good we were

Keep in mind each series we got progressively better

During the RS, pre bubble, we had a
113.7 offensive rtg, 106.3 defensive rtg
And a 49-14 record, having one of the toucher schedules in the league.

So we were the #3 offensive and #3 defensive team in the RS

From christmas day to end of pre bubble, this changes to

115 offensive rtg and 107.3 defensivw rtg

25-7

17 of those games were against playoff teams though, and the ones that werent were against

pelicans thrice, Memphis twice, pheonix twice, warriors twice, nyk twice, spurs, sacramento, and detroit, and cleveland

So 17 games were vs playoff teams, and of the 15 that werent, 9/15 were vs bubble teams. (And obv played a bunch of the top west dogs and the bucks in that stretch) yet our net rtg increased

So we had a pretty hard schedule but as rhe season went on we clearly got better

Its important mentioning that while their defense varied, EVERY SINGLE team we played in the playoffs were arguably "the best" offensive team in the nba, in a way.

Portland were by the metrics since the bubble started, houstan had been great offensively agter the capela trade aside from the last bubble games where not all of them played, and they were hot from three vs us, denver were a top 5 offensive team that replaced jamal murray with super saiyan jamal murray, and the heat had just decimated every single defense including the historically good bucks one

Caveats to each but as a whole we were great in the playoffs.

Now our net rtg of 7.2 in the playoffs, a 117.1 offensive rtg and 109.9 defensive rtg looks pretty good taking this into account, but that doesnt tell the full story

In games decided by 10 or less, we were +34 in the fourth quarter

In games decided by more than 10 points, we were -66 in the fourth

So in the 8 games where the score was lopsided, they were -66 (garbage time) and in the 12 where it wasnt so lopsided they were +34 (4 games were by exactly 10 btw).

Obv its not that simple since in a 2 of those games that were lopsided it the fourth quarter was a big deal for why they lost but it doesnt nearly make up for it. Because of sample size using advanced stats for clutch data isnt greT, but while the lakers clutch net rtg was negative (-3.7) they won 6/10 games they were in the clutch which is prolly more significant in small samples

(Im using nba daya vs bball ref from here on out)

The lakers net rtg for the first three quarters was +11.8, in the 4th it was -8.3, fully from garbage time

The 2017 warriors had a net rtg of 11.3 through the first three quarters for comparison,they didnt follow the same garbage time trend

Now its not that simple, aometimes they won or less by ten because of what happened in the fourth (although in the lakers case since they only lost 2 games by 10 or more its pretty valid), but its worth mentioning their pure net rtg doesnt show how good they were because of this, and this trend doesnt repeat (in lopsided scores resulting in them being big negatives in the fourth quarter)

I didnt look at every team but this doesnt seem to be a common thing, to this extant and we clearly see then hella take their foot off the gas with insurmountable leads

Given that the lakers basically played like a team with a +10-12 net rtg when it mattered

Aa far as i jnow here are the teams since 1998 with a +10 playoff net rtg

2014 spurs
2017-2018 warriors
2001 lakers

The lakers when they were "trying" essentially played at a level only 3 teams in the past 22 years have reached.

Its worth mentioning the spurs and warriors and 01 lakers didnt follow this trend, 01 lakers and 18 warriors
Specifically annihilated teams in garbage time

As much as people rag on the lakers competition, and obv it was a death gauntlet, in twrms of avg quality of teams they faced while they didnt play any ATG great team and miami was hobbled, i would definatley argue that portland is a pretty damn hard first round matchup, houstans a difficult second round matchup esp conaidering their hot, the nuggets were a solid team and the heat were hobbled but were also good and deserved to be there (compared to the competition during other dominant runs)

So this lakers squad is arguably one of the best ever i feel in terms of pure dominance. Keep in mind while its fair to say it was noise, our two key players, AD and Lebron both step up their game in the playoffs

Lebrons done it enough times that its a given.
AD stepped it up arguably just as much but i see why some might think his shooting was flukey. But keep in mind defensively not only did he step it up, but his defensive game is also built in a way that it elevates in the playoffs when we arent just spamming drop coverages

So we replaced rondo with 6MOTY candidate schroder, while playoff rondo was good, ESPECIALLY vs the rockets, he had a few bad games here and there and his defense overall was still suspect and targetted when we didnt play zone, whereas schroder is a solid two way player, can function off ball as a cutter and shooter too.

We replaced green with matthews. While thats a 50-50, green was kind of bad in the playoffs, and while matthews isnt the team defender green is (although hes not a liability in that regard), green was bad at shooting in the playoffs and matthews is a better man defender which we need vs teams with multiple strong wings

We replaced dwight, who was great but only really did anything in the denver series to stop jokic, with marc, who is arguably better defensively but fits really well on offense and is a year removed from being starting center on a championship contender

We replaced mcgee, whose a tall body, that basically didnt play, with 6MOTY harrell, who at first glance doesnt fit but clearly has upside defensively and is legitimately one of the best roll men finishers in the nba as well as able to make his own shots

Not to mention horton tucker and kuzma are gonna improve, dont know by how much but we'll see

But essentially on a move by move basis, we replaced someone whose role (dwight) was literally only be a body and be there to stop jokic, with someone that is 95th percentile in post d ppp for the three years in a row (0.57 ppp, last year. for comparison, gobert is at 0.76ppp, which is second best for him in 5 years, and best percentile wise, howard and AS both at 0.67ppp). Not to mention hes one of the better (one of the best?) playmakers at his position

A guy that was there for the locker room and his bball iq and ability to handle the ball and pass, but was left open and killed spacing because of his unwillingness to shoot even when he was making them, and often held the ball too long and didnt mesh well with bron together, along with being our worst man to man defender with a 6moty level pg that is coming off of a strong 3 point shooting season, can attack drop coverages and apparently is a good cutter off ball and a strong defender on ball

Replaced our 3 and d shooter that couldnt shoot in the playoffs with another 3 and d shooter thats better at guarding our weakspot losing a bit in team D

And finally, we replaced mcgee, a literal body so AD doesnt get hurt, with a 6MOTY who was a deserved winner. Even though he has targettable weaknesses, if he pans out defensively and it turns out he can switch on to smalls which is possible considering he was praised for it in the past, wont be functionally playing defensive center as much with AD on the court, and the chip on his shoulder we have frank vogel factor

Like disregarding everything else, just that upside alone is insane, we can take a top 5 team of the past 20 years and replaced a literal body with a 6MOTY guy that could pan out to be waaaay better than he was last year.

Keep in mind. Harrell is a legitimate force offensively despite the awkward fit. If hes switchable and becomes a + defender we are talking star level player (not superstar but way bettee than nothing)

Literally the only guy that hasnt been replaced from last year is kieff and we might/probably will still sign him

Even from an RS perspective, our bench lineup (schroder i think will start but he'll be heading the second unit too), we went from rondo, who sucked in the rs, and dwight, who was solid but limited, to the top 2 6MOTY guys in schroder and harrell, caruso, who alot of us think was a top 5 most important laker player last year, and kuzma, who still has potential but regardless is faaaar better than most teams 8 or 9th guy (and talent wise hes obviously really talented).

We undoubtedly have the best top tier stars in the nba, arguably the 2nd best player long with inarguably the best player.

And we might have the best supporting cast for the starters in the nba AND bench in the nba as well

Like its kind of insane lol
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#987 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:02 am

Slava wrote:Lakers also have Cacock and Kostas Antetotounmpo on two way deals who are extremely athletic rim running bigs. I rate both of them and I think Kostas in particular has untapped potential.


Most people are higher on cacock though right? He undersized but could be switchy i feel
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#988 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:12 am

J Shuttlesworth wrote:Roster is looking great so far. Should have enough scoring to keep LeBron low on minutes in the regular season. We always wonder every year if LeBron will show a significant decline. That would really be the only thing stopping them from winning and even then... It's possible LeBron could be 90% as good as last year and they could still win this year since AD will be more confident, and the team has more depth. Can't wait to watch these guys play. Really like all the moves


1 thing that was interesting was with less of a load offensively he was trying more on defense

Im curious if someone compared this season to some of his older seasons defensively, obv i understand the gut reaction of "no way brons at that level" but in all honesty, although nothing approached 2016 finals bron on D (although i think 2016 finals bron on D was legit better than even Ad by a distance who i think had one of the best postseasons ever by a big), thinking about it, i think he was definately the best non big defender in the playoffs, and this might seem crazy

But is it REALLY that insane to say, outside of AD of course, he was the best defender in the playoffs? Partially because no one else in the playoffs was insane on D and had a long run but Id say his D was pretty clearly the second best on the court (even the best at times like vs houstan) in every series he was in, even in the heat series although bam was hobbled. (Gobert and giannis didnt play much)
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#989 » by Slava » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:38 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Slava wrote:Lakers also have Cacock and Kostas Antetotounmpo on two way deals who are extremely athletic rim running bigs. I rate both of them and I think Kostas in particular has untapped potential.


Most people are higher on cacock though right? He undersized but could be switchy i feel


Cacok is more ready and plays in a defined role but Kostas has some real untapped potential as he shares his brother's athleticism and a lot of off the dribble skill.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#990 » by JulesWinnfield » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:57 am

I could never in my wildest dreams imagine this final act in LA unfolding any more advantageously for Lebron. Just two years in, he already has a title in the bank, he enters next year with arguably his most complete team ever. Threats like the Warriors monster are now completely out of the picture. There isn’t anyone on the horizon that strikes an exorbitant amount of fear in me.

Listen, anything can happen, things change quick. Guys can get hurt, Lebron is indeed old... but ring number 5 (and even 6) at least seem within the realm of things possible and plausible. He has a chance to do this and break the all time scoring record as a Laker. Can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#991 » by limbo » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:26 pm

Can't see the Lakers losing the title next season, barring freak injuries striking them down, or maybe Milwuakee somehow pulling off a miracle and trade for someone like Beal without losing their core guys, if that's even possible...

All the Lakers need now is another C because they've lost both Dwight and McGee and playing Gasol heavy minutes in the RS at this stage off his career is a horrible idea. AD would also benefit from the Lakers getting another C, so he doesn't need to put his body in jeopardy unnecessarily against weak RS competition.

What's the latest news on Kieff? Is it possible for the Lakers to both keep Kieff and get another C in? That would be ideal. It come be some over the hill player for a vet minimum. As long as he's around 7 feet and can play 20 min in the RS it's fine...
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#992 » by The Master » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:55 pm

limbo wrote:Can't see the Lakers losing the title next season, barring freak injuries striking them down, or maybe Milwuakee somehow pulling off a miracle and trade for someone like Beal without losing their core guys, if that's even possible...

That depends if Harden stays at Houston - in theory, I can imagine him going to Nets or Clippers in some lopsided trade that would change balance of power in a league, Clippers with Kawhi and Harden or Nets with Harden and Durant would be really dangerous. I don't see any other player that can make that significant shift within a league and change this relative balance that we've had since Durant injured his achilles. After 2021, it will be probably more tricky if LeBron somehow stays at his elite level, I bet we will see some Davis-like moves with elite players on expiring contracts and so on.

Regarding filling in a roster, Lakers are in pretty comfortable spot, I saw that ~90% of roster spots are already filled, with cap space around a league basically used - yet there are many interesting names. Boogie, Whiteside or Len for vet min spot on C? Kieff, RHJ, Batum or Glen Robinson for 3-4 rotation? Belinelli, Korver, Reggie Jackson or Napier for backcourt rotation/capable shooters giving depth? You may not like every name I mentioned, but considering paycuts Lakers already got from Matthews, Gasol or Harrell, I'm pretty confident we will see some interesting additions next two-three days.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#993 » by KTM_2813 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:04 pm

I'm already seeing some reputable analysts choose the Clippers as title favorites. Maybe I'm just biased, but I think that the gap between Davis/James and George/Leonard is simply too great. I'm not saying that the Clippers cannot win it, but I don't think they've earned championship-favorite status.

Regarding the Lakers, the main concern I have right now is, oddly enough, the James-led second unit at the start of the 2nd and 4th quarters. If they play Harrell at center, their defense will likely be poor. I'm wondering if it makes sense to pull Gasol early in the 1st so that he can play with the James-led second unit later on. Perhaps a James/Caruso/Kuzma/Harrell/Gasol lineup or something.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#994 » by Greyhound » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:18 pm

limbo wrote:Can't see the Lakers losing the title next season, barring freak injuries striking them down, or maybe Milwuakee somehow pulling off a miracle and trade for someone like Beal without losing their core guys, if that's even possible...

All the Lakers need now is another C because they've lost both Dwight and McGee and playing Gasol heavy minutes in the RS at this stage off his career is a horrible idea. AD would also benefit from the Lakers getting another C, so he doesn't need to put his body in jeopardy unnecessarily against weak RS competition.

What's the latest news on Kieff? Is it possible for the Lakers to both keep Kieff and get another C in? That would be ideal. It come be some over the hill player for a vet minimum. As long as he's around 7 feet and can play 20 min in the RS it's fine...

It would be great if the Lakers could resign Markieff and stash someone like Biyombo at the end of the bench (for insurance/ load management purposes).

I would like them to bring Dudley back for locker room purposes. But I think an insurance guard (like Cook) is a more pressing need.

The two new guys have Warriors pedigree, so maybe they are worth keeping around as end of bench guys.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#995 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:53 pm

KTM_2813 wrote:I'm already seeing some reputable analysts choose the Clippers as title favorites. Maybe I'm just biased, but I think that the gap between Davis/James and George/Leonard is simply too great. I'm not saying that the Clippers cannot win it, but I don't think they've earned championship-favorite status.

Regarding the Lakers, the main concern I have right now is, oddly enough, the James-led second unit at the start of the 2nd and 4th quarters. If they play Harrell at center, their defense will likely be poor. I'm wondering if it makes sense to pull Gasol early in the 1st so that he can play with the James-led second unit later on. Perhaps a James/Caruso/Kuzma/Harrell/Gasol lineup or something.


Clippers still have the same weakness of no actual floor general and offensive organizer. Lue's strategy is just clearing out for your best offensive players to go to work, but you still need a playmaker and they don't have one.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#996 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:54 pm

I guess Kieff is coming back?

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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#997 » by kayess » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:56 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:I could never in my wildest dreams imagine this final act in LA unfolding any more advantageously for Lebron. Just two years in, he already has a title in the bank, he enters next year with arguably his most complete team ever. Threats like the Warriors monster are now completely out of the picture. There isn’t anyone on the horizon that strikes an exorbitant amount of fear in me.

Listen, anything can happen, things change quick. Guys can get hurt, Lebron is indeed old... but ring number 5 (and even 6) at least seem within the realm of things possible and plausible. He has a chance to do this and break the all time scoring record as a Laker. Can’t wait to see how this unfolds.


First off - guys, we have got to stop **** jinxing LeBron's team LMAO.

Second off - I 100% agree. Hands up if you predicted it would go anything like this, then put it down because you'd be lying. LeBron must have known about the AD trade at the minimum, but there was just such an insane amount of obstacles - the injury, gimped cap space, LeBron aging, the **** pandemic... and they not only won the title (with some ridiculous breaks too - i.e., Caruso, Kieff, Playoff Rondo), but seem poised to repeat. Even a year ago this would've been hard to imagine - but imagine going back in time and telling someone this after Game 4 of the 2016 Finals. The only thing that would raise the trajectory even more is if he somehow goes through a gauntlet (not that they didn't this year) of the up-and-comers trying to dethrone him, and win.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#998 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:58 pm

It would be cool if LeBron got a chance to beat Luka in the playoffs before retirement. Would be like if MJ got a chance to face young Kobe or like Wilt facing Kareem.
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#999 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:30 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason 

Post#1000 » by The Master » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:39 pm

If McKinnie stays in a team, I bet we will get backup C and shooter/guard to complete roster with 14 players, with vet minimum spot below hard cap for some trade deadline acquisition.

Morris has gotten overrated a little bit after playoffs, but he's still great to have as 10th-11th piece of rotation.

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