2020 Off-season Discussion

[Braggins]

Welp, theres goes Baynes.

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We're officially a Zeller injury away from out center rotation being completely non-functional. I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are signing Whiteside.

Good job Mitch, youve spent the entirety of the most important part of the free agency period locked into a staring contest with Danny **** Ainge over trying to sign Gordon Hayward to the worst contract of the offseason. Very well played.

[yosemiteben]

I've called the Batum stretch rumor a bluff, but let me clarify what I mean - it's not really a bluff, it's actually calling a bluff. MJ is really saying that he wants Hayward so much that he'll ruin our cap space and pay an additional $9M per year on top of Hayward's above market salary just to make sure he gets him. Now we're seeing if we have to lie in the bed we made or if there is a deal to be made.

[316Hornets]

We still have a MLE it doesn't look like we're going to use so 9 mil isn't even a big loss.

[yosemiteben]

We still have a MLE it doesn't look like we're going to use so 9 mil isn't even a big loss.

If you treat that like dead cap, having $18M in dead cap this summer isn't exactly a wise use of resources IMO.

[Braggins]

We still have a MLE it doesn't look like we're going to use so 9 mil isn't even a big loss.

If you treat that like dead cap, having $18M in dead cap this summer isn't exactly a wise use of resources IMO.

Also 9 million in dead cap the next two years when we'll still need to add talent to the roster and make decisions on Monk/Miles extensions. 9 million in dead cap two more seasons after this is a huge deal.

[yosemiteben]

I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure $9M per year was close to the difference between keeping and losing Kemba. Let's not act like that's some trivial amount.

[driveandkick]

Welp, theres goes Baynes.

Read on Twitter

We're officially a Zeller injury away from out center rotation being completely non-functional. I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are signing Whiteside.

Good job Mitch, youve spent the entirety of the most important part of the free agency period locked into a staring contest with Danny **** Ainge over trying to sign Gordon Hayward to the worst contract of the offseason. Very well played.

My boy Mitch realizing it's dumb to invest in centers! But come on, PJ will play some small ball five and they're going to gamble that one of the rookies can be a decent contributor. I thought a lot of people still wanted to be bad?

[Braggins]

Welp, theres goes Baynes.

Read on Twitter

We're officially a Zeller injury away from out center rotation being completely non-functional. I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are signing Whiteside.

Good job Mitch, youve spent the entirety of the most important part of the free agency period locked into a staring contest with Danny **** Ainge over trying to sign Gordon Hayward to the worst contract of the offseason. Very well played.

My boy Mitch realizing it's dumb to invest in centers! But come on, PJ will play some small ball five and they're going to gamble that one of the rookies can be a decent contributor. I thought a lot of people still wanted to be bad?

I wanted to tank for another season, but that ship has sailed because your boy Mitch has decided to spend 120 million on Hayward, so we might as well try to have a functional roster. I thought the people happy about the Hayward signing think we are a playoff team, but you want us to rely on Zeller + Biyombo and 2nd round picks for our center rotation?

I'm talking about center options that will cost between the vet minimum and room exception (about 5 million). That is hardly an investment. Carey is 19 years old and Richards probably won't even be as good as Biyombo next season. If we are trying to win games their best place will likely be in Greensboro.

[driveandkick]

Welp, theres goes Baynes.

Read on Twitter

We're officially a Zeller injury away from out center rotation being completely non-functional. I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are signing Whiteside.

Good job Mitch, youve spent the entirety of the most important part of the free agency period locked into a staring contest with Danny **** Ainge over trying to sign Gordon Hayward to the worst contract of the offseason. Very well played.

My boy Mitch realizing it's dumb to invest in centers! But come on, PJ will play some small ball five and they're going to gamble that one of the rookies can be a decent contributor. I thought a lot of people still wanted to be bad?

I wanted to tank for another season, but that ship has sailed because your boy Mitch has decided to spend 120 million on Hayward, so we might as well try to have a functional roster. I thought the people happy about the Hayward signing think we are a playoff team, but you want us to rely on Zeller + Biyombo and 2nd round picks for our center rotation?

I'm talking about center options that will cost between the vet minimum and room exception (about 5 million). That is hardly an investment. Carey is 19 years old and Richards probably won't even be as good as Biyombo next season. If we are trying to win games their best place will likely be in Greensboro.

I support the Hayward signing and don't think we are a playoff team. But I do think we are one piece away from having something REALLY interesting. Without Hayward there's a chance we can get that piece with a top five pick next year. Now we will probably be targeting that player in the 8-12 range and we'll have three more years of Hayward to boot. There have been some STARS taken in the last half/end of the lottery the last five years. Maybe we find one and THEN become a playoff team.

[316Hornets]

Adding Randle would be the worst possible move. I've seen it mentioned and it makes me sick.

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[DY_nasty]

Welp, theres goes Baynes.

Read on Twitter

We're officially a Zeller injury away from out center rotation being completely non-functional. I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are signing Whiteside.

Good job Mitch, youve spent the entirety of the most important part of the free agency period locked into a staring contest with Danny **** Ainge over trying to sign Gordon Hayward to the worst contract of the offseason. Very well played.

My boy Mitch realizing it's dumb to invest in centers! But come on, PJ will play some small ball five and they're going to gamble that one of the rookies can be a decent contributor. I thought a lot of people still wanted to be bad?

there's bad - and there's being so bad that there's nothing to even positive to learn from. without a solid line up of bigs, a team can't do fundamental stuff properly at all. its a handicap and playing with an unbalanced roster that can't do simple things right means all our young players learn bad habits they'd need to unlearn later

after GS took a center at #2, i thought the "teams don't need centers" thing would die already - if the playoffs didn't spell it out either that is

we were already one of the worst rebounding teams in the league. if zeller goes down, we don't even get to play i don't know why everyone is looking forward to getting PJ killed either.

[LofJ]

We got Biz back Dy, he's got this.

[DY_nasty]

We got Biz back Dy, he's got this.

at least its not byron mullens

[LofJ]

We got Biz back Dy, he's got this.

at least its not byron mullens

Mullens was at least entertaining, I'll never forget that dunk he had over Aldridge. He might have been one of the top 5 dumbest players I've ever seen though.

[JMAC3]

i thought the "teams don't need centers" thing would die already - if the playoffs didn't spell it out either that is

I think there are still only 5-10 teams who have a legit center, and in the East their are still some very average starting centers.

Boston will use a combo of Thompson and Theiss
Toronto has Baynes
Nets have Allen/Jordan
Bucks have Brook Lopez
Wizards have Thomas Bryant
Bulls have Wendell Carter
Knicks have Mitchell Robinson/Noel
Pistons have Plumlee/Stewart
Cavs have Javale/Drummond

Not saying I do not think we could use an upgrade at center, because I think we could. I was just opposed to using a top 3 pick on one, if we are somewhat competitive this year it would make sense to potentially take a center in the 7-15 range.

[Chapelchilla]

I think we are definitely still doing some behind the scenes deal making as I have not yet received an official notice from the Hornets (as a season ticket holder) regarding signing Gordon. They are usually pretty quick to notify/hype us up. The pen has not quite hit the paper I think....interesting

[DY_nasty]

i thought the "teams don't need centers" thing would die already - if the playoffs didn't spell it out either that is

I think there are still only 5-10 teams who have a legit center, and in the East their are still some very average starting centers.

Boston will use a combo of Thompson and Theiss
Toronto has Baynes
Nets have Allen/Jordan
Bucks have Brook Lopez
Wizards have Thomas Bryant
Bulls have Wendell Carter
Knicks have Mitchell Robinson/Noel
Pistons have Plumlee/Stewart
Cavs have Javale/Drummond

Not saying I do not think we could use an upgrade at center, because I think we could. I was just opposed to using a top 3 pick on one, if we are somewhat competitive this year it would make sense to potentially take a center in the 7-15 range.

Its not so much the 1 v 1 matchup, its the fact that we can't do things offensively or defensively that require at least the suggestion of a competent or capable player in the role for the majority of the game.

The Wizards actually Dunlapped last year too and I thought it was hilarious how Scott Brooks never got called out for it. They didn't even bother with the charade of real defense and just went all in on having more points at the end of the game rather than stopping anyone. Their young guys suffer for it season after season and their vets know that its pointless to do anything other than pad stats while hoping for a market value contract reflecting the flat numbers they put up.

All I'm saying is, the majority of teams in the league that actually try to win on purpose have a solid big rotation that can provide multiple looks on defense and at least be worth guarding on on offense. Cody couldn't even gather himself to jump for an easy putback this time last year and Biz... Biz can't even take his spot as the starter after almost a decade now.

We can't do simple stuff like consistently hedge or even give these guards reliable targets that know how to seal their man off of a mismatch after the PnR. Teams switch against us for free because they know they'll never be punished and they can play reckless/gamble whenever they want because any mistakes will be covered by the rebounding margin. Being bad is one thing, but not even giving our guys the benefit of an honest defense to play against just screws them over in the long term. Hell, Kemba got used to take bad shots specifically because his bad shots were the best look we'd get an offense at times. That's a BAD thing to carry over for young players known for bad looks.

[JMAC3]

i thought the "teams don't need centers" thing would die already - if the playoffs didn't spell it out either that is

I think there are still only 5-10 teams who have a legit center, and in the East their are still some very average starting centers.

Boston will use a combo of Thompson and Theiss
Toronto has Baynes
Nets have Allen/Jordan
Bucks have Brook Lopez
Wizards have Thomas Bryant
Bulls have Wendell Carter
Knicks have Mitchell Robinson/Noel
Pistons have Plumlee/Stewart
Cavs have Javale/Drummond

Not saying I do not think we could use an upgrade at center, because I think we could. I was just opposed to using a top 3 pick on one, if we are somewhat competitive this year it would make sense to potentially take a center in the 7-15 range.

Its not so much the 1 v 1 matchup, its the fact that we can't do things offensively or defensively that require at least the suggestion of a competent or capable player in the role for the majority of the game.

The Wizards actually Dunlapped last year too and I thought it was hilarious how Scott Brooks never got called out for it. They didn't even bother with the charade of real defense and just went all in on having more points at the end of the game rather than stopping anyone. Their young guys suffer for it season after season and their vets know that its pointless to do anything other than pad stats while hoping for a market value contract reflecting the flat numbers they put up.

All I'm saying is, the majority of teams in the league that actually try to win on purpose have a solid big rotation that can provide multiple looks on defense and at least be worth guarding on on offense. Cody couldn't even gather himself to jump for an easy putback this time last year and Biz... Biz can't even take his spot as the starter after almost a decade now.

We can't do simple stuff like consistently hedge or even give these guards reliable targets that know how to seal their man off of a mismatch after the PnR. Teams switch against us for free because they know they'll never be punished and they can play reckless/gamble whenever they want because any mistakes will be covered by the rebounding margin. Being bad is one thing, but not even giving our guys the benefit of an honest defense to play against just screws them over in the long term. Hell, Kemba got used to take bad shots specifically because his bad shots were the best look we'd get an offense at times. That's a BAD thing to carry over for young players known for bad looks.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from, but there is a give and take. You are always going to have weaknesses that you are working to cover up. My counter argument is that there are legit only 5-10 centers in the league who can do all the things you are mentioning. If I am given the choice of having really good wings/guards who can shot and pass vs a center who can do all these things I lean towards the wings and guards. If I can have both sure I would do it, but not many teams are able to fill all these needs with good players and have to manage the salary cap as well.

My solution is probably drafting a big in next years draft in the 10th-15th pick range if that is where we end up. And while I agree that neither of our second round picks are ready from day 1, I could see a route where one of them can develop into a very serviceable center by year two if they correct some of their weaknesses.

[DY_nasty]

I just think there's a dramatic difference 'weakness' and being plainly incapable of doing things on an NBA court that every NBA team should be able to do.

I didn't even want a 'good' center at all. I just wanted a guy that didn't look like he was physically in pain trying to roll to the rim the way Cody does or continue treating every pass to Biz like a dice roll. Give us 20-25 minutes at most.

Cody doesn't even look at the rim when getting the ball 10 feet out with no one around him. Biz has nice runs every once in a while, but the guy can't even keep up with a dribble hand off... Its pathetic.

[JMAC3]

Not sure what Thread to really place this in, but I love the direction of the team under Mitch. He seems like a really good talent evaluator in the draft and for most part he has not made any dumb trades.

I would however like to get a better assistant GM that was better at winning small trades, managing the cap and working in valuable assets into current deals.

One thing specifically I love that teams do is team options, I know most players don't love them. However I think a good alternative is partial guarantees in the last year of the deal. This does open a team up for potentially eating dead cap, but it is 100% that teams option to cut that player vs paying the deal. The main reason I find value in this caveat is for trades, because you could trade a guy that has 2 years 20 million with a partial guarantee to a team with 2 years 20 million on the books and save that team money.

Imagine if Batum had only a partial guarantee of 17 million on his deal vs the full 27. We could either cut him outright and take the dead money this season or we could trade him to another team for a player that makes 27 million and that team could cut Batum hence giving that team a cap savings (more valuable than an expiring deal).

Probably less likely to work these into a large deal like Batums, but for deals that are in 6-15 million dollar range I think it is a really smart move (Cory Joseph is a great example of a deal that has way more value than it looks like it has on the surface). Detroit did the same getting Dedmon, he was way easier to stretch due to the partial guarantee- allowed them to stretch over 5 years vs 3 years.