Fake Trade Thread #3

[Braggins]

If we stretch Batum then there is a good chance we won't be able to resign Monk if he pans out this season. I wouldn't give up Monk and I wouldn't stretch Batum. I would walk away from the Hayward deal if those were my only options, but I guess I would never even consider doing the Hayward deal in the first place and I'm still hoping it falls through.

I think the longer this negotiation goes on the worse the outcome ends up for us. Ainge is overrated, but hes a spiteful dick and they are in a much better position than us. MJ is a complete clown and we've missed out on pretty much every halfway decent rotation player while being gridlocked trying to work out the Hayward situation. I can't see them backing away at this point and our front office will likely blink first if Ainge wants to play hardball. We are most likely stretching Batum or giving away future assets for Hayward.

[MasterIchiro]

Tightening this up a bit

Kings: Batum, Monk, Boston 2nd

Hornets: Hayward and Cory Joseph

Boston: Barnes

We give up Monk, but by dumping Batum in the deal we open back up another 20 million in cap space. Assuming we help out Kings even more for facilitating the deal and take on Joseph contract. Leaving us with about 8 million in cap space still. As I mentioned before Joseph has only 2.6 million guaranteed in 2021-2022 season so he could be viewed as an asset.

I'd rather lower cap 9 million (Batum stretch) to keep Monk. We can't get a 22 year old piece with upside for the MLE. Substitute Martin for Monk and I'd be on board. The question is if the Celtics would take that horrible Barnes contract. But maybe it's not so horrible considering what Hayward wanted and where he settled financially.

Go check out my latest post in the Monk thread, I laid out our cap situation with Monk and Batum dead money vs trading monk to dump Batum dead money.

Really against trading Monk as a casualty of Batum. We already lost Kemba as a casualty. I'm perfectly comfortable inserting Cody Martin though and would endorse that adjustment to your proposal.

[MasterIchiro]

If we stretch Batum then there is a good chance we won't be able to resign Monk if he pans out this season. I wouldn't give up Monk and I wouldn't stretch Batum. I would walk away from the Hayward deal if those were my only options, but I guess I would never even consider doing the Hayward deal in the first place and I'm still hoping it falls through.

Dumping Rozier for say Payton feels a great deal smoother.

[JMAC3]

I'd rather lower cap 9 million (Batum stretch) to keep Monk. We can't get a 22 year old piece with upside for the MLE. Substitute Martin for Monk and I'd be on board. The question is if the Celtics would take that horrible Barnes contract. But maybe it's not so horrible considering what Hayward wanted and where he settled financially.

Go check out my latest post in the Monk thread, I laid out our cap situation with Monk and Batum dead money vs trading monk to dump Batum dead money.

Really against trading Monk as a casualty of Batum. We already lost Kemba as a casualty. I'm perfectly comfortable inserting Cody Martin though and would endorse that adjustment to your proposal.

Of course you are okay swapping Monk and Martin, but the Kings most likely wouldn't. Kings are the team that would be doing both the Hornets and Celtics the favor in this deal and would need to be compensated pretty well.

[Braggins]

If we stretch Batum then there is a good chance we won't be able to resign Monk if he pans out this season. I wouldn't give up Monk and I wouldn't stretch Batum. I would walk away from the Hayward deal if those were my only options, but I guess I would never even consider doing the Hayward deal in the first place and I'm still hoping it falls through.

Dumping Rozier for say Payton feels a great deal smoother.

Yeah, salary dumping Rozier creates the most future cap flexibility of any option. It adds 27 million next offseason plus an additional 13 if Monk doesn't pan out this season and we renounce his cap hold.

Before the Hayward deal I was hoping to get a better fitting piece or some minor draft compensation for Rozier, but we desperately need cap flexibility. The upside of trying to develop Monk for another year is worth more to me than Rozier. If Monk doesn't work out, then oh well, we'd have the most cap space possible.

I'd still prefer moving Rozier for a cheaper rotation player on a one year deal to create the space we need for Hayward, but if we can't find a deal like that then I'm totally cool with just sending him to Boston if they want him. I'd send a 2nd rounder or two with Rozier before I'd trade Monk or Miles.

[MasterIchiro]

If we stretch Batum then there is a good chance we won't be able to resign Monk if he pans out this season. I wouldn't give up Monk and I wouldn't stretch Batum. I would walk away from the Hayward deal if those were my only options, but I guess I would never even consider doing the Hayward deal in the first place and I'm still hoping it falls through.

Dumping Rozier for say Payton feels a great deal smoother.

Yeah, salary dumping Rozier creates the most future cap flexibility of any option. It adds 27 million next offseason plus an additional 13 if Monk doesn't pan out this season and we renounce his cap hold.

Before the Hayward deal I was hoping to get a better fitting piece or some minor draft compensation for Rozier, but we desperately need cap flexibility. The upside of trying to develop Monk for another year is worth more to me than Rozier. If Monk doesn't work out, then oh well, we'd have the most cap space possible.

I'd still prefer moving Rozier for a cheaper rotation player on a one year deal to create the space we need for Hayward, but if we can't find a deal like that then I'm totally cool with just sending him to Boston if they want him. I'd send a 2nd rounder or two with Rozier before I'd trade Monk or Miles.

100% agreement. I feel Rozier is kind of a casualty of LaMelo skill-wise in the backcourt and scoring wise with the addition of Hayward.

LaMelo can enhance the development and value of Miles and Monk far beyond what Rozier can do. Rozier doesn't make our prospects develop better and faster. Hayward does but we need cap.

This proposal creates the required space to fit Hayward this year while opening up the maximum amount of space next year. If Monk pans out it's a bonus.

Rozier to Knicks for Payton + Bullock. I'd be willing to include the Nets 2021 pick in the second round.

[JMAC3]

Wanted to get some ideas out on paper.

Basically the main reason it sucks to stretch Batum over the next three years is because it's dead cap. You can't include dead cap in a trade so we are stuck with that for the following two years no matter what. A player at 10 million would be much better because you could eventually trade them as an expiring, but dead cap is just dead.

So what is that worth for us?

I think it is unlikely at this point Rozier or Zeller are heading back to Boston in a sign and trade. I think it much more likely that we would be helping Boston create a 30 million trade exception that they can use to bring in a player later in the year (Capela, Harrison Barnes, Steven Adams, Aaron Gordon etc..). Without the exception Boston would basically be hard capped and not able to add any additional significant pieces throughout the season. With the exception it allows them to pull in a meaningful player into the exception without having to send anything back in terms of salary. What Warriors just did with Oubre, honestly trade exceptions are a bit OVERPOWERED in my mind.

Most likely Boston will send us future second round pick or two for the exception. Unfortunately they do not own any additional future firsts- can't believe we can finally say that.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So we basically could try to deal someone valued at 10+ million on our team to a team with cap space. The only teams with real cap space right now are the Knicks. One of Atlanta or Sacramento will have cap space depending if Bogdanovic becomes a sign and trade. If Atlanta sends out some salary they will still have cap space, but if they sign him outright Sacramentowill have roughly 9-10 million if Cap Space. They also have not used their MLE yet, so they have some options to still improve their team.

Kings (without Bog) Have about 9 million in cap space, so a few options would:

1. Send Rozier (18.9 Mil) to them for Cory Joseph. Joseph is owed 12.6 million this year so we would be cutting 6.3 million from our books, which might be enough due to backloading Hayward contract. Joseph is owed 12.6 million next year but only 2.4 million of it is guaranteed. They might want a second rounder to take on Rozier contract next year, or they might throw in a second rounder for the upgrade to Rozier. (Not sure how they feel about players, this is just me focusing on Dollars).

2. Send Batum (27.4 million) to Kings for Harrison Barnes(22.2 million) So this would only be saving us 5.2 million from our books, so this is 1 million short of the previous deal I offered so it would be even more difficult to backload Hayward deal and this obviously takes stretching Batum out of the deal because he is included in it. Kings would be taking significant hit to their team for this year by doing this, but most in the league view Barnes as a negative contract with another 3/60 on his deal left.

This is where the deal could get tricky, because again this would not be enough space so there's a chance the Hornets would have to add someone else to the deal. Monk could make sense and that would get the Hornets under the cap, but is Batum and Monk for 3 years of Barnes a bad deal? Barnes deal is front loaded so it goes 22, 20, 18 which is not as bad as it once was thought to be. Maybe the Kings would throw in a few 2nd round picks for dumping Barnes and getting Monk?

This would give the Hornets another solid player on the wing/stretch 4. but I am not sure this is the best deal out there.

Moving onto Hawks (with Bog)

By my calculations of the Hawks giving Gallo 20, Bog 18, Rondo 7.3, and Dunn 4.7 (MLE so doesn't count against the cap) They still have roughly 8 million or so in real cap space.

1. Rozier(18.9) for Snell (12.6) framework could make sense similar to what I was saying above about a Cory Joseph swap. Again not sure what team sends extra second round picks back and forth.

2. Would be more complicated, but Batum (27.4) for Capela (16 million) Could have some possibilities if the Hornets would be willing to throw in a future 1st round rounder. The Hawks invested a top 6 pick on Okongwu and have Collins still as well. They could be having buyers remorse and willing to eat Batum's deal for the future savings and first.

Lastly I will circle back to Knicks who still have roughly 20+ million

1. They take Rozier 18.9 into their cap space, not sure if we can get something back like a second rounder or so or maybe they would prefer to dump Dennis Smith Jr back (5.6) or French Frank back (6.1) either way we would be getting 12 million or so space which is enough that we can keep Batum without stretching his deal.

2. We send them Batum (27.4) for Randle (18.9). This opens up 8.5 million in cap space for Hayward so we do not have to cut or stretch anyone on the roster. However, the Knicks would need an asset back for doing this deal. Randle is under contract next season for 19.8 million but only 4 million is guaranteed. That means we could cut him and only have 4 million in dead cap compared to 9 that season and 9 the following. Also, Randle is a decent player, but nothing spectacular. He would give us a solid bench big to play some minutes at Center and PF, either way though he is a major upgrade over Batum corpse/Batum 18 million dead money moving forward.

The Question is what would we be willing to give up to entice the Knicks to do this deal. We could give them a future first obviously protected or swap rights potentially. We could give them Bridges. We could throw in Monk. On deals we throw in Monk or Bridges we could potentially get Knox or DSJ/French Frank back without losing the cap space we need. Just depends on how much the Knicks value the talent upgrade between the prospects swapped.

Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. Really the thing I learned through this experience is there are limited options in order to not stretch Batum. We put ourselves into a difficult position, but the opportunity to add Hayward I believe will be worth it in the end.

Let me know which of these options you prefer. Thanks.

So I apologize, but apparently according to Hollinger the Thunders still have 15 million in cap space and their full MLE. He mentioned them having a billion trade exceptions that kept using in all these trades, so I was not aware they were legally able to use all of those and it is confusing, so I will trust him on the numbers. This opens up some more options potentially.

However, OKC does not have a lot of matching salaries and they would probably just want a first round pick to help facilitate any deal as a third party. Also, not sure if they can trade Horford technically- think it would have to be added to a potential deal and I pretty sure Horford deal has already been made a 4 way.

[316Hornets]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

[JMAC3]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

This is not a legal trade for us. We don't save nearly enough money in this deal.... we have to cut off 9 million dollars to make Hayward deal work. This saves us like 3 million and then on top of it this is a horrible trade... honestly something a 12 year old would make in 2k.

[CatgutStitches]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

How many 1st round picks do we get?

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[316Hornets]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

This is not a legal trade for us. We don't save nearly enough money in this deal.... we have to cut off 9 million dollars to make Hayward deal work. This saves us like 3 million and then on top of it this is a horrible trade... honestly something a 12 year old would make in 2k.

It's based on the assumption that we offload Zeller or Rozier to Boston in a sign and trade for Hayward.

Why are you playing with 12 year olds on 2k?

Kevin Love is still one of the best stretch 5s in the league when healthy. A lineup of Ball/Devonte/Hayward/Miles/Love would be devastating to defend. Even better if we could actually trade Miles instead of PJ.

Ball/Devonte/Hayward/PJ/Love - That is lineup that could hang with any team in the league

[JMAC3]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

This is not a legal trade for us. We don't save nearly enough money in this deal.... we have to cut off 9 million dollars to make Hayward deal work. This saves us like 3 million and then on top of it this is a horrible trade... honestly something a 12 year old would make in 2k.

It's based on the assumption that we offload Zeller or Rozier to Boston in a sign and trade for Hayward.

Why are you playing with 12 year olds on 2k?

Kevin Love is still one of the best stretch 5s in the league when healthy. A lineup of Ball/Devonte/Hayward/Miles/Love would be devastating to defend. Even better if we could actually trade Miles instead of PJ.

Ball/Devonte/Hayward/PJ/Love - That is lineup that could hang with any team in the league

Kevin Love is awful, no team wants to trade for him. Trading for him and his contract are worse than resigning Batum for another 27 million next year. I want to barf just reading this.

[luciano-davidwesley]

All in play

Batum, PJ
for
Love

Ball
Devonte
Hayward
Love
Biz

Lol are you Cleveland's GM?

[316Hornets]

We are talking about starting Biz and Zeller.

Kevin Love is so far ahead of them, I'm scratching my head right now. Obviously his contract is loaded, but the guy is legit deep threat and he's been adding weight too.

[Braggins]

Is the plan now to add as many massively overpaid 30+ year olds that aren't all-stars as possible?

[JMAC3]

We are talking about starting Biz and Zeller.

Kevin Love is so far ahead of them, I'm scratching my head right now. Obviously his contract is loaded, but the guy is legit deep threat and he's been adding weight too.

Maybe we could get Wall and Blake Griffin too... man could you imagine if we could put that team in a time machine??? I think you are on to something here.

[BeesWax]

Is the plan now to add as many massively overpaid 30+ year olds that aren't all-stars as possible?

Unfortunately that does appear to be the plan. I mean I am not a fan and would not want this but I didn't want to waste the money and opportunity cost on Hayward. If you are going all in way to early might as well not go half way. I would not give up PJ but Batum for Love straight up with Zeller and a TPE going to Boston sets us up to try to be slightly better than the mediocrity we are headed at right now.

[MasterIchiro]

Once we escape the Batum stretch by dumping Rozier and/or Zeller, I'd be more interested in Blake Griffin over Kevin Love. Griffin is owed 2 years. I think Batum for Blake is just like paying Blake for one year.

It's possible the Celtics and Pistons would agree and the Celtics would take Griffin on a 2-year deal over Hayward on 4. If Pistons are demanding it, maybe Celtics add draft pick compensation or a young player Detroit likes with Batum. I remember Griffin was rumored to be in a sign-and-trade deal with the Nuggets because the incoming salaries equaled his contract to the dollar. But then all of a sudden when the Hayward to Charlotte deal hit, the rumor died and Griffin remained with the Pistons.

Celtics

Blake Griffin

Hornets

Gordon Hayward

Pistons

Nic Batum + Celtic draft compensation and/or Celtic prospect

Devonte' Graham
Terry Rozier
Gordon Hayward
PJ Washington
Cody Zeller

LaMelo Ball
Malik Monk
Cody Martin/Jalen McDaniels
Miles Bridges
Vernon Carey Jr.

We will have the cap next year to make a strong bid for restricted free agent Jarrett Allen

Pistons get out of Griffin contract
Hornets avoid stretching Batum

Celtics roll out 8-man rotation...

Kemba Walker
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Blake Griffin
Tristan Thompson

Marcus Smart
Aaron Nesmith
Daniel Theis

[LofJ]

Is this feasible?

CHA out Batum
CHA in Hayward

BOS out Hayward
BOS in Ariza, TPE

SAC out Hield
SAC in Batum

OKC out Ariza
OKC in Hield

We swap Batum for Hayward, BOS gets the veteran wing they need and a sizeable TPE, SAC clears the cap they need to keep Bogdan, and OKC gets a very popular player in Oklahoma who will help their kids develop.

[JMAC3]

Is this feasible?

CHA out Batum
CHA in Hayward

BOS out Hayward
BOS in Ariza, TPE

SAC out Hield
SAC in Batum

OKC out Ariza
OKC in Hield

We swap Batum for Hayward, BOS gets the veteran wing they need and a sizeable TPE, SAC clears the cap they need to keep Bogdan, and OKC gets a very popular player in Oklahoma who will help their kids develop.

Personally I do not really ever like to get into 4 team trades, because they are so complicated and not many happen in real life. However, I do not think this trade makes much sense.

Sacramento can sign Bogdanovic without clearing any cap- so dumping Hield for anything less than a first round pick is crime.

Hornets win this trade too much, we would be dumping Batum and getting Hayward- giving us the original 20 million in cap space we had available pre-Hayward. Just because we are getting Hayward does not mean Batum isn't a bad contract (we probably still have to give away a good asset to dump Batum).

Boston I think is looking for a difference maker and right now they are only about 20 million under the Hard Cap, meaning if they bring back Ariza (12 mil) that means they really can only use that TPE for 8 million which doesn't bring in a difference maker.

OKC wins this trade the most after Hornets get a get a jail free card.

So in conclusion, I do not think all the money works right (4 team trades are annoying) and from a team standpoint I do not think any team is getting what they want except the Hornets who are winning the deal by the largest margin and then OKC laughs for days. Sacramento cries for days, Boston could take it or leave it.