Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
Sreister wrote:NTB wrote:
With Moore on the roster, does that make Nader expendable? If so, any team looking to shed salary in terms of a backup PG? I don't quite feel comfortable with our backup PG situation, can we send Nader and Okobo to someone who can cut those guys and shed their backup PG to us? Seems like a hard situation to find, though.
Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?jcsunsfan wrote:I think Nader and Okobo would both be expendable to a team that wants to dump salary to get under the lux tax or make some hard cap room to get a deal done (like the Lakers). If we wanted an upgrade at the pg or wing position, this might be a possibility, though remote.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Sign Delly to a nonguaranteed deal to be an emergency pg and placeholder for that roster spot if someone better becomes available. Added plus is he's a cool ass guy and it's always good to have an Aussie around.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:Here is my prediction for the rotation and minutes, assuming there are no more trades and we don’t pick up a significant addition at the 1/2. I expect Crowder to start, at least at first:
PG - Paul (32) / Payne (12) / Carter (4)
SG - Booker (36) / Carter (12)
SF - Bridges (36) / Johnson (12)
PF - Crowder (28) / Johnson (14) / Saric (6)
C - Ayton (32) / Saric (16)
Totals:
Booker - 36
Bridges - 36
Paul - 32
Ayton - 32
Crowder - 28
Johnson - 26
Saric - 24
Carter - 16
Payne - 12
What do y’all think? I don’t know much about Moore...anyone think he would consistently get a piece of the pie here at the expense of someone else’s minutes?
carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
I certainly wouldn't pencil him into the rotation from day 1. Heck last year on a worse team a more ready rookie in Cam wasn't really in the rotation. Injuries and Bridges early slump got him there pretty quickly.NTB wrote:Jesus_H_Macy wrote:Here is my prediction for the rotation and minutes, assuming there are no more trades and we don’t pick up a significant addition at the 1/2. I expect Crowder to start, at least at first:
PG - Paul (32) / Payne (12) / Carter (4)
SG - Booker (36) / Carter (12)
SF - Bridges (36) / Johnson (12)
PF - Crowder (28) / Johnson (14) / Saric (6)
C - Ayton (32) / Saric (16)
Totals:
Booker - 36
Bridges - 36
Paul - 32
Ayton - 32
Crowder - 28
Johnson - 26
Saric - 24
Carter - 16
Payne - 12
What do y’all think? I don’t know much about Moore...anyone think he would consistently get a piece of the pie here at the expense of someone else’s minutes?
Jalen Smith plays 0 minutes?
NTB wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Barkley6 wrote:Anyone else still feel like we need another signing? I Like what we've done so far, but I can't help but feel we need a little insurance. I'd love to add a ball handling guard, or a big man that crashes the boards well.
Maybe as the money continues to dry up, someone will be willing to take a small deal to come play in PHX?
Yes, because I think we have 13 with Saric, leaving two more spots since Ty'Shon is a 2 way. That leaves one signing and Okobo or two signings. I think if we go after Napier or someone like that, or possibly try an offer sheet with McLaughlin (that Minny probably matches), then we let Okobo go and sign one more wing or maybe another combo guard or stretch PF.
Or wait for a buyout like Hill. Presti will probably try to trade him for a first for awhile though, or at least a second.
We have 14 with Saric.
Jesus_H_Macy wrote:Here is my prediction for the rotation and minutes, assuming there are no more trades and we don’t pick up a significant addition at the 1/2. I expect Crowder to start, at least at first:
PG - Paul (32) / Payne (12) / Carter (4)
SG - Booker (36) / Carter (12)
SF - Bridges (36) / Johnson (12)
PF - Crowder (28) / Johnson (14) / Saric (6)
C - Ayton (32) / Saric (16)
Totals:
Booker - 36
Bridges - 36
Paul - 32
Ayton - 32
Crowder - 28
Johnson - 26
Saric - 24
Carter - 16
Payne - 12
What do y’all think? I don’t know much about Moore...anyone think he would consistently get a piece of the pie here at the expense of someone else’s minutes?
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I certainly wouldn't pencil him into the rotation from day 1. Heck last year on a worse team a more ready rookie in Cam wasn't really in the rotation. Injuries and Bridges early slump got him there pretty quickly.NTB wrote:Jesus_H_Macy wrote:Here is my prediction for the rotation and minutes, assuming there are no more trades and we don’t pick up a significant addition at the 1/2. I expect Crowder to start, at least at first:
PG - Paul (32) / Payne (12) / Carter (4)
SG - Booker (36) / Carter (12)
SF - Bridges (36) / Johnson (12)
PF - Crowder (28) / Johnson (14) / Saric (6)
C - Ayton (32) / Saric (16)
Totals:
Booker - 36
Bridges - 36
Paul - 32
Ayton - 32
Crowder - 28
Johnson - 26
Saric - 24
Carter - 16
Payne - 12
What do y’all think? I don’t know much about Moore...anyone think he would consistently get a piece of the pie here at the expense of someone else’s minutes?
Jalen Smith plays 0 minutes?
We also have to account for this being a pretty quick turnaround from draft day to opening night and I doubt many rookies have a big impact early this year. Plus I think Smith is far more raw of a prospect than people might realize.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
NTB wrote:Jesus_H_Macy wrote:Here is my prediction for the rotation and minutes, assuming there are no more trades and we don’t pick up a significant addition at the 1/2. I expect Crowder to start, at least at first:
PG - Paul (32) / Payne (12) / Carter (4)
SG - Booker (36) / Carter (12)
SF - Bridges (36) / Johnson (12)
PF - Crowder (28) / Johnson (14) / Saric (6)
C - Ayton (32) / Saric (16)
Totals:
Booker - 36
Bridges - 36
Paul - 32
Ayton - 32
Crowder - 28
Johnson - 26
Saric - 24
Carter - 16
Payne - 12
What do y’all think? I don’t know much about Moore...anyone think he would consistently get a piece of the pie here at the expense of someone else’s minutes?
Jalen Smith plays 0 minutes?
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?jcsunsfan wrote:I think Nader and Okobo would both be expendable to a team that wants to dump salary to get under the lux tax or make some hard cap room to get a deal done (like the Lakers). If we wanted an upgrade at the pg or wing position, this might be a possibility, though remote.
Because if it does then Nader is already guaranteed after being traded and you wouldn't be able to trade Okobo and have his deal waived to save that other team money.
Edit: I did a little research and actually Nader's would have only been guaranteed via that trade rule it his money was needed for matching purposes. In the case of the Paul trade it was not needed so wouldn't be guaranteed. So suns can waive him before 11/28. Now what they can't really do is what you mentioned where they trade him to a team for a guy on a guaranteed deal and that other team waive him for cap savings, because in that type of trade his contract WOULD have been used for matching purposes.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Yeah circumstances matter, if the suns weren't in full on win now mode I'd say he's a lock to play right away. I should note I do think he'll play plenty this season I just don't know if it will me much early.bwgood77 wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:I certainly wouldn't pencil him into the rotation from day 1. Heck last year on a worse team a more ready rookie in Cam wasn't really in the rotation. Injuries and Bridges early slump got him there pretty quickly.NTB wrote:
Jalen Smith plays 0 minutes?
We also have to account for this being a pretty quick turnaround from draft day to opening night and I doubt many rookies have a big impact early this year. Plus I think Smith is far more raw of a prospect than people might realize.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
I don't think he is as raw as Ayton, but of course Ayton was the #1 pick and we didn't have much else at the 5 (Holmes was it I think).
I think Smith is more ready than that...and more ready than probably all the 1 and done guys who went before him like Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Okongwu, Hayes, Williams and Okoro. Avdija and Toppin probably the only two guys more ready. The one reason he likely plays less than most of those guys is because we are looking to compete and most of those teams are still in rebuilding phase.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah I agree Moore is a pretty good bet to get regular playing time and I agree they may not even really play a traditional backup PG.bwgood77 wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Minutes/rotation stuff has a tendency to work itself out. I'm sure someone we have penciled in now is banged up early.
I could see them add another guard but realistically they could play with the current group.
For sure starters
Paul
Booker
Bridges
Ayton
Then one of Cam Johnson or Crowder (I expect Crowder) the one who doesn't will get big minutes off the bench
Then Saric is for sure in the rotation and I'd guess Carter is too to some degree.
Assuming they probably play 10 at least early in the year that leaves two probably 10ish minute slots for some combo of Payne, Smith, Moore, Nader
That's absolutely a workable group and the most professional team the suns have rolled out in years.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
So your first 7 are for sure rotation players and I think Moore probably would get the next most minutes, followed by Carter, then maybe Payne, then Smith.
I could see Moore coming in when Booker or Paul sits. Moore may not be a traditional PG but has played it and with Booker handling the ball so much they could be a good combo.
Then Carter next, maybe either if then the second of Booker and Paul sits (sometimes Monty doesn't stagger guys when he should and we put in a bench unit that leaves us without one of our best players in there)...or I won't be surprised if he puts Payne (or another PG we may sign), Carter and Moore all in there together. He seemed to love those Payne (or Okobo), Carter, Jerome lineups where one was actually a SF with two bigs sometimes, which seemed inexplicable.
Moore had played between 21 and 32 minutes though for the Pelicans until last year when they completely changed their roster and went young, but then they struggled without him and did a lot better when he returned:
The stagger question is interesting because I could see them doing it with Paul and Booker especially if they want to let Devin run some point for short stretches and both Carter and Moore really good fits to play next to him in those lineups.
I ranked Carter slightly ahead of Moore partly because I don't think they signed him to that contract to not play. And he's a much more versitle player than people might think, because of his strength and mentality you can get away with him guarding much bigger players for short stints. Plus even just using him for little 5 minute bursts per half where you need some energy and have Carter come in and press and just be a pain in the ass is useful.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?jcsunsfan wrote:I think Nader and Okobo would both be expendable to a team that wants to dump salary to get under the lux tax or make some hard cap room to get a deal done (like the Lakers). If we wanted an upgrade at the pg or wing position, this might be a possibility, though remote.
Because if it does then Nader is already guaranteed after being traded and you wouldn't be able to trade Okobo and have his deal waived to save that other team money.
Edit: I did a little research and actually Nader's would have only been guaranteed via that trade rule it his money was needed for matching purposes. In the case of the Paul trade it was not needed so wouldn't be guaranteed. So suns can waive him before 11/28. Now what they can't really do is what you mentioned where they trade him to a team for a guy on a guaranteed deal and that other team waive him for cap savings, because in that type of trade his contract WOULD have been used for matching purposes.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
If thats the case, Nader's option would have to have been picked up and it wasnt. These are team options and they can be traded before their deadline. Seems like we see teams do this all the time. Trade for a player and then decline him.
jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?jcsunsfan wrote:I think Nader and Okobo would both be expendable to a team that wants to dump salary to get under the lux tax or make some hard cap room to get a deal done (like the Lakers). If we wanted an upgrade at the pg or wing position, this might be a possibility, though remote.
Because if it does then Nader is already guaranteed after being traded and you wouldn't be able to trade Okobo and have his deal waived to save that other team money.
Edit: I did a little research and actually Nader's would have only been guaranteed via that trade rule it his money was needed for matching purposes. In the case of the Paul trade it was not needed so wouldn't be guaranteed. So suns can waive him before 11/28. Now what they can't really do is what you mentioned where they trade him to a team for a guy on a guaranteed deal and that other team waive him for cap savings, because in that type of trade his contract WOULD have been used for matching purposes.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
If thats the case, Nader's option would have to have been picked up and it wasnt. These are team options and they can be traded before their deadline. Seems like we see teams do this all the time. Trade for a player and then decline him.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?
Because if it does then Nader is already guaranteed after being traded and you wouldn't be able to trade Okobo and have his deal waived to save that other team money.
Edit: I did a little research and actually Nader's would have only been guaranteed via that trade rule it his money was needed for matching purposes. In the case of the Paul trade it was not needed so wouldn't be guaranteed. So suns can waive him before 11/28. Now what they can't really do is what you mentioned where they trade him to a team for a guy on a guaranteed deal and that other team waive him for cap savings, because in that type of trade his contract WOULD have been used for matching purposes.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
If thats the case, Nader's option would have to have been picked up and it wasnt. These are team options and they can be traded before their deadline. Seems like we see teams do this all the time. Trade for a player and then decline him.
No, because his contract value wasn't needed in that Paul trade it's still not guaranteed. What you're referring to where teams traded guys then their contracts were declined was common place under the old CBA but they changed the rules on that. I think JR Smith had the last contract that was grandfathered into the old rule. This article breaks down the new rules: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html
Because Nader didn't need to be in that Paul trade and OKC could have just waived him if they didn't want him it leads me to believe the suns asked for him to be in that deal and that would lead me to believe they want him on the roster this year. Otherwise just let OKC waive him.
Check out that hoops hype article. The rules on that stuff are confusing but it gives a good breakdown.bwgood77 wrote:jcsunsfan wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Per the most recent CBA if a player is traded their team option has to picked up. Maybe that doesn't apply if it's a nonguaranteed contract vs a true team option?
Because if it does then Nader is already guaranteed after being traded and you wouldn't be able to trade Okobo and have his deal waived to save that other team money.
Edit: I did a little research and actually Nader's would have only been guaranteed via that trade rule it his money was needed for matching purposes. In the case of the Paul trade it was not needed so wouldn't be guaranteed. So suns can waive him before 11/28. Now what they can't really do is what you mentioned where they trade him to a team for a guy on a guaranteed deal and that other team waive him for cap savings, because in that type of trade his contract WOULD have been used for matching purposes.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
If thats the case, Nader's option would have to have been picked up and it wasnt. These are team options and they can be traded before their deadline. Seems like we see teams do this all the time. Trade for a player and then decline him.
It's not a player option though, which he would have had to have picked up because you can't trade a guy who signed a contract and gets to decide if he wants to play that last year.
It's a team option and not all guaranteed this year...he is still technically under contract unless the Suns cut him before 11/28...otherwise his contract becomes guaranteed. So they can still make a decision on this.
It is outlined underneath his contract years here... https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/abdel-nader-20264/#:~:text=Abdel%20Nader%20signed%20a%203,a%20cap%20hit%20of%20%241%2C752%2C950.