Cap space

[thesack12]

Gave away a pile of picks?

Please list the pile of picks we gave away.


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Future protected 1st and the '21 Toronto 2nd in the Ariza/Wright/Wood trade
3 Detroit 2nds and Portland '23 2nd to LAC in the Brown/Kennard
The '21 Lakers 2nd went out also, can't remember off the top of my head.

Detroit currently doesn't own a 2nd round pick until 2027

I've already posted the protections on the first we sent. To keep it simple it's top 16 protected including 2024, top 10 protected including 2026, top 9 protected in 2027 then becomes a 2nd rounder.

What we've done is deal a bunch of 2nd rounders!

Oh no, that pile of picks is going to haunt us!

Can always look at it as trading all those 2nds for Wright, Jackson, Musa, Okafor, Lee, Hands, McGruder...

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Yeah, I'm just gonna continue to move forward with the stance that 2nds do actually hold value, and its better for a rebuilding team to hold ownership of them.

Other than Jackson, i'd rather still have the 2nds over any of that pile of unwantedness.

But to each their own

[Canadafan]

Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.

Unless Jackson blows up, I really don't see any tradeable commodities that will fetch any kind of significant draft pick compensation. If any of the other young guys blow up, you aren't trading them. Even if Jackson shows out, you probably don't want to move him either as he's only 23.

This sure doesn't seem like a productive way to enter a rebuild.

Our only hope is that Blake opts out next summer. Even if that happens, its a scary proposition to arm Weaver with $40 mil in cap space.

All I see with this and our lack of space next summer is Weaver guarantees we finally not only are crap this upcoming season which gets us a top5 pick but also the following year.
So it's what pretty much everyone wanted.
Our 3 rooks this year.
2021 + 2022 top5 picks
Sekou
Grant
And while we're sucking this year at least we'll be interesting to see how our young guys are improving.

This is what you/we hope happens. There are zero guarantees Detroit will get a top 5 pick. Hell, Detroit finished with a bottom 5 record last season, and still ended up with the 7th pick.

Pistons could have easily positioned themselves to be in the top 5 pick conversation while still maintaining cap flexibility and not giving away a pile of picks.

No matter what any of us think this year's record is going to be, Detroit would have been better off maintaining cap flexibility and keeping ownership of most of their picks.

Stop it. I dont wanna admit it!

Ughhhhhh! Like 2020 hasnt been horrible enough, now we gotta deal with our new GM who we had such high Hope's for acting like hes playing in a fantasy league and doing things I've never seen done before. Its disheartening. Demoralizing. Devastating. And if I was any smarter I'd have a few more descriptive words about the predicament.

All I am hoping for is something to still happen. Like a Blake trade will make all of this better. Somehow.

I refuse to accept this. I'm going back to being in denial and happy we signed Plumlee and Grant lol. Go Pistons!

[Pharaoh]

Future protected 1st and the '21 Toronto 2nd in the Ariza/Wright/Wood trade
3 Detroit 2nds and Portland '23 2nd to LAC in the Brown/Kennard
The '21 Lakers 2nd went out also, can't remember off the top of my head.

Detroit currently doesn't own a 2nd round pick until 2027

I've already posted the protections on the first we sent. To keep it simple it's top 16 protected including 2024, top 10 protected including 2026, top 9 protected in 2027 then becomes a 2nd rounder.

What we've done is deal a bunch of 2nd rounders!

Oh no, that pile of picks is going to haunt us!

Can always look at it as trading all those 2nds for Wright, Jackson, Musa, Okafor, Lee, Hands, McGruder...

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Yeah, I'm just gonna continue to move forward with the stance that 2nds do actually hold value, and its better for a rebuilding team to hold ownership of them.

Other than Jackson, i'd rather still have the 2nds over any of that pile of unwantedness.

But to each their own

Up to you how you view it.

The roster needed to get nuked and it's been done.

We now should all hope these kids get a real shot at playing, that we do end up with a top 5 pick next Draft and that we hit on some of these kids.

I've wanted this kind of rebuild for a while so I'm not gonna sit here and even try to understand all the cap manoeuvring we've done to get here.

1 - we've got loads of young kids under 24 years old.

2 - we ain't signing any vets for a playoff push.

3 - Gores can STFU and finally let us lose enough in the hope we land 2 studs in the next 2 Drafts.

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[thesack12]

All I see with this and our lack of space next summer is Weaver guarantees we finally not only are crap this upcoming season which gets us a top5 pick but also the following year.
So it's what pretty much everyone wanted.
Our 3 rooks this year.
2021 + 2022 top5 picks
Sekou
Grant
And while we're sucking this year at least we'll be interesting to see how our young guys are improving.

This is what you/we hope happens. There are zero guarantees Detroit will get a top 5 pick. Hell, Detroit finished with a bottom 5 record last season, and still ended up with the 7th pick.

Pistons could have easily positioned themselves to be in the top 5 pick conversation while still maintaining cap flexibility and not giving away a pile of picks.

No matter what any of us think this year's record is going to be, Detroit would have been better off maintaining cap flexibility and keeping ownership of most of their picks.

Stop it. I dont wanna admit it!

Ughhhhhh! Like 2020 hasnt been horrible enough, now we gotta deal with our new GM who we had such high Hope's for acting like hes playing in a fantasy league and doing things I've never seen done before. Its disheartening. Demoralizing. Devastating. And if I was any smarter I'd have a few more descriptive words about the predicament.

All I am hoping for is something to still happen. Like a Blake trade will make all of this better. Somehow.

I refuse to accept this. I'm going back to being in denial and happy we signed Plumlee and Grant lol. Go Pistons!

On the plus side, Hayes could end up being the best player in the draft. At the very least Killian is easily the most promising PG has had since Billups.

Saddiq bey could end up becoming the steal of the draft. He's basically Kennard on offense, with more athleticism, immensely better defense, and more aggressiveness.

Josh Jackson could wind up being the biggest steal in this year's cycle of free agency. He's only 13 months older than Obi Toppin, and still has a ton of upside.

Isaiah Stewart seems to have that Pistons DNA we all love. Maybe he will lead a renaissance of the new age bad boys.

Hopefully that was enough inspiration for you to put your rose colored glasses back on

[Pharaoh]

This is what you/we hope happens. There are zero guarantees Detroit will get a top 5 pick. Hell, Detroit finished with a bottom 5 record last season, and still ended up with the 7th pick.

Pistons could have easily positioned themselves to be in the top 5 pick conversation while still maintaining cap flexibility and not giving away a pile of picks.

No matter what any of us think this year's record is going to be, Detroit would have been better off maintaining cap flexibility and keeping ownership of most of their picks.

Stop it. I dont wanna admit it!

Ughhhhhh! Like 2020 hasnt been horrible enough, now we gotta deal with our new GM who we had such high Hope's for acting like hes playing in a fantasy league and doing things I've never seen done before. Its disheartening. Demoralizing. Devastating. And if I was any smarter I'd have a few more descriptive words about the predicament.

All I am hoping for is something to still happen. Like a Blake trade will make all of this better. Somehow.

I refuse to accept this. I'm going back to being in denial and happy we signed Plumlee and Grant lol. Go Pistons!

On the plus side, Hayes could end up being the best player in the draft. At the very least Killian is easily the most promising PG has had since Billups.

Saddiq bey could end up becoming the steal of the draft. He's basically Kennard on offense, with more athleticism, immensely better defense, and more aggressiveness.

Josh Jackson could wind up being the biggest steal in this year's cycle of free agency. He's only 13 months older than Obi Toppin, and still has a ton of upside.

Isaiah Stewart seems to have that Pistons DNA we all love. Maybe he will lead a renaissance of the new age bad boys.

Hopefully that was enough inspiration for you to put your rose colored glasses back on

Never took mine off

I might not understand or agree with all the moves we've made but looking at the roster I'm pretty happy with the end result.

No more playoff mandate is a really good thing.

Now let's get out there, play the kids and lose lol

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[Kilo]

Given the Hayward opt out and $130M contract this off-season, is there a real chance that Blake opts out should he be healthy this season? I think so.

Again the key is "if he stays healthy", but I don't think he'd risk opting in and playing out the last year here (risking injury) when he could opt out and get another $100M guaranteed contract.

OTOH this also probably would hurt his trade value as if he's healthy he opts out and if he's not he opts in so the team is at the disadvantage in both instances. You can't trade for him as an expiring, but you don't want to play a picks premium if he can walk.

[The Moose]

Given the Hayward opt out and $130M contract this off-season, is there a real chance that Blake opts out should he be healthy this season? I think so.

Again the key is "if he stays healthy", but I don't think he'd risk opting in and playing out the last year here (risking injury) when he could opt out and get another $100M guaranteed contract.

OTOH this also probably would hurt his trade value as if he's healthy he opts out and if he's not he opts in so the team is at the disadvantage in both instances. You can't trade for him as an expiring, but you don't want to play a picks premium if he can walk.

yea, if he has a relatively healthy season i think hes opting out

[Invictus88]

Given the Hayward opt out and $130M contract this off-season, is there a real chance that Blake opts out should he be healthy this season? I think so.

Again the key is "if he stays healthy", but I don't think he'd risk opting in and playing out the last year here (risking injury) when he could opt out and get another $100M guaranteed contract.

OTOH this also probably would hurt his trade value as if he's healthy he opts out and if he's not he opts in so the team is at the disadvantage in both instances. You can't trade for him as an expiring, but you don't want to play a picks premium if he can walk.

yea, if he has a relatively healthy season i think hes opting out

No way on earth he opts out. He's the first person who notices the pain in those balky knees -- the ones that almost never let him play a full season. The second is eveyone else in the league. There's no way he leaves 40 million on the table to come back and sign a 15-20 2-year deal where the second year is a team option.

Nobody and I mean nobody is going to risk a long term deal with this guy; healthy season or not.

[440BB]

Blake will definitely opt in. No team would pay him anything near that at this point in his career and he would have to give up too many millions to join a contender. He'll be able to chase a ring the year after this contract if he's physically able.

[edmunder_prc]

Blake will definitely opt in. No team would pay him anything near that at this point in his career and he would have to give up too many millions to join a contender. He'll be able to chase a ring the year after this contract if he's physically able.

I agree he wont get more than ~$40 million the last year of the deal.


Everything now is speculation because:

1) maybe Blake is finished? His leg was still terribly injured after a whole off-season to get better. He immediately had to have another repair.

2) maybe he can play but will be Ryan Anderson. If he lost all his mobility (sure looked like it last season) then hes just a spot up big. Hes a smart guy and can reinvent himself as an Aaron Baynes type of player?

3) maybe he comes back looking like he did two years ago. Blake has the will in him to keep grinding and playing. No one will doubt his heart and willingness to keep at it.


So right now we have zero information. Has anyone even seen a leaked video of him in the gym doing drills, shooting or anything like that? I havent.

[The Penguin]

Hayward to Blake is apples to oranges. Hayward was 4th in line with Boston, he was knocked down to a glorified role player. His first priority was to return home but when that couldn't happen he signed with someone who promised to make him the go to guy again.

Blake has an owner who has made him the centerpiece of the franchise. Anyone hoping he opts out better be careful what they wished for, because would anyone be shocked to see Gores give him a 4 year / $120 mil deal if he has a strong healthy season?


If the past week has taught us anything, there's a chasm between what an educated message board poster for the team believes is the best course vs what ownership / front office actually do.

[Manocad]

Hayward to Blake is apples to oranges. Hayward was 4th in line with Boston, he was knocked down to a glorified role player. His first priority was to return home but when that couldn't happen he signed with someone who promised to make him the go to guy again.

Blake has an owner who has made him the centerpiece of the franchise. Anyone hoping he opts out better be careful what they wished for, because would anyone be shocked to see Gores give him a 4 year / $120 mil deal if he has a strong healthy season?


If the past week has taught us anything, there's a chasm between what an educated message board poster for the team believes is the best course vs what ownership / front office actually do.

I would absolutely be shocked if the Pistons offered Blake a 4 year deal after a strong season, even if he played 82 games. It's not logical at all to think he'll have less time lost to injuries as he gets older. Gores and the team may have done some puzzling things but I don't think they're THAT dumb.

[thesack12]

Blake wouldn't be opting out of $39 million though.

Unless Blake permanently has a fork sticking out of his back, he's obviously going to get offered a new contract. So the money he would be leaving on the table is the difference between the $39 mil he'd be opting out of, and whatever the first year salary of his new contract would be.

The question then becomes, what would his next contract look like. Well, there projects to be quite a bit of available cash next summer. On top of that, several contenders are going to have money to spend. There are a lot of teams currently waiting on some clarity on Giannis. Once that gets cleared up, there are going to be more than a handful of good teams pivoting to secondary options. If Blake has a reasonably healthy season, its not hard at all to see a few of those teams viewing Blake as a very solid option and maybe even their finishing piece.

Its also worth pointing out, from his point of view not only does he not have to waste another season in Detroit if he opts out, but by opting out be will be 1 year younger as a potential free agent. Which matters once you get over 30. 1 year doesn't seem like much, but when you are considering handing out long term contracts obviously the younger the better.

So long story short, I think its entirely possible Blake will get Jerami Grant type offers should he opt out. Which would mean he'd only be opting out of $20 mil. Which seems like a lot on the surface, but when you consider he's already made a mountain of $ in his career & the age angle & and the market he'd be entering, I don't think its farfetched at all to think he'd seriously consider opting out.

And again, just to be clear as others have alluded to, this is all predicated on him having a reasonably healthy 20-21 season. If he's close to right physically, there isn't really a question that he will be productive.

[edmunder_prc]

Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jaylen Hands
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863

coordinator

How does Ellington fit into the cap space picture?

I had thought that the vet minimum guys would be added last, Okafor and now Ellington.

Does the team have enough space for the Plumlee contract or will Derrick Rose need to be traded now to have the space. Or, hopefully not, more people stretched?

Maybe someone who is an Athletic member could paste a paragraph explaining this, if they did that there.

I feel like with all the extra add ons recently, the Plumlee money is not there anymore.

[Pharaoh]

Question is with all the cap manoeuvring is:

Did we actually have the 30 mil we we're supposed to have?

We all assumed on Draft Day that we were absorbing Ariza into our cap space but that didn't happen cause it became a S&T with Wood.

It appears we signed Grant then signed Wood (& traded him) which would mean no money for Plumlee...

Or is he getting the Dedmon money and that's why he had to be stretched?

The order the moves are completed seems to make a difference and while Weaver has done all these gymnastics to get us to the right destination it's all been a bit weird.

And not in the "Weaver is getting schooled" kinda weird - it's like he's deliberately made some odd moves (trade for Dedmon, trade for Bradley & 38, trade for Smith, getting McGruder, Wood S&T) to get exactly what he wanted.

If Morey does weird **** he's automatically regarded as a genius who knows everything.

Weaver does weird **** and he's automatically regarded as a rookie getting owned despite where we've ended up

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[BadMofoPimp]

Hayward to Blake is apples to oranges. Hayward was 4th in line with Boston, he was knocked down to a glorified role player. His first priority was to return home but when that couldn't happen he signed with someone who promised to make him the go to guy again.

Blake has an owner who has made him the centerpiece of the franchise. Anyone hoping he opts out better be careful what they wished for, because would anyone be shocked to see Gores give him a 4 year / $120 mil deal if he has a strong healthy season?


If the past week has taught us anything, there's a chasm between what an educated message board poster for the team believes is the best course vs what ownership / front office actually do.

I would absolutely be shocked if the Pistons offered Blake a 4 year deal after a strong season, even if he played 82 games. It's not logical at all to think he'll have less time lost to injuries as he gets older. Gores and the team may have done some puzzling things but I don't think they're THAT dumb.

Especially being he can't play 82 games in a shortened season!

[BadMofoPimp]

Given the Hayward opt out and $130M contract this off-season, is there a real chance that Blake opts out should he be healthy this season? I think so.

Again the key is "if he stays healthy", but I don't think he'd risk opting in and playing out the last year here (risking injury) when he could opt out and get another $100M guaranteed contract.

OTOH this also probably would hurt his trade value as if he's healthy he opts out and if he's not he opts in so the team is at the disadvantage in both instances. You can't trade for him as an expiring, but you don't want to play a picks premium if he can walk.

yea, if he has a relatively healthy season i think hes opting out

A $32 year old injury prone player opting out of $40 million is insane. He will never opt out. Only way he is leaving the Pistons is via trade or in a body bag.

[coordinator0]

coordinator

How does Ellington fit into the cap space picture?

I had thought that the vet minimum guys would be added last, Okafor and now Ellington.

Does the team have enough space for the Plumlee contract or will Derrick Rose need to be traded now to have the space. Or, hopefully not, more people stretched?

Maybe someone who is an Athletic member could paste a paragraph explaining this, if they did that there.

I feel like with all the extra add ons recently, the Plumlee money is not there anymore.

I'm wondering what the Plumlee contract actually is at this point. If the Grant contract starts at just a bit over $19 million as reported (and I believe it has been signed and is on the books) then the Pistons only have about $7 million in cap space assuming Dedmon's waiving includes using the stretch provision. That's not enough to fit in Plumlee's deal. Stretching McGruder maybe gets them barely there but doing so for Smith doesn't.

Ellington, Okafor, and Jackson all shouldn't matter because I'm guessing they're all signed with exceptions. The minimum exception for the first two and the room exception for Jackson. None of those should be "official" yet.

[edmunder_prc]

coordinator

How does Ellington fit into the cap space picture?

I had thought that the vet minimum guys would be added last, Okafor and now Ellington.

Does the team have enough space for the Plumlee contract or will Derrick Rose need to be traded now to have the space. Or, hopefully not, more people stretched?

Maybe someone who is an Athletic member could paste a paragraph explaining this, if they did that there.

I feel like with all the extra add ons recently, the Plumlee money is not there anymore.

I'm wondering what the Plumlee contract actually is at this point. If the Grant contract starts at just a bit over $19 million as reported (and I believe it has been signed and is on the books) then the Pistons only have about $7 million in cap space assuming Dedmon's waiving includes using the stretch provision. That's not enough to fit in Plumlee's deal. Stretching McGruder maybe gets them barely there but doing so for Smith doesn't.

Ellington, Okafor, and Jackson all shouldn't matter because I'm guessing they're all signed with exceptions. The minimum exception for the first two and the room exception for Jackson. None of those should be "official" yet.

Looking at Derrick Rose's contract, its a very similar amount. $7-8 million area.

My guess is Weaver is Joe Dumar-Double phoning it to everyone in the league, trying to find a place for DRose.

[Pharaoh]

coordinator

How does Ellington fit into the cap space picture?

I had thought that the vet minimum guys would be added last, Okafor and now Ellington.

Does the team have enough space for the Plumlee contract or will Derrick Rose need to be traded now to have the space. Or, hopefully not, more people stretched?

Maybe someone who is an Athletic member could paste a paragraph explaining this, if they did that there.

I feel like with all the extra add ons recently, the Plumlee money is not there anymore.

I'm wondering what the Plumlee contract actually is at this point. If the Grant contract starts at just a bit over $19 million as reported (and I believe it has been signed and is on the books) then the Pistons only have about $7 million in cap space assuming Dedmon's waiving includes using the stretch provision. That's not enough to fit in Plumlee's deal. Stretching McGruder maybe gets them barely there but doing so for Smith doesn't.

Ellington, Okafor, and Jackson all shouldn't matter because I'm guessing they're all signed with exceptions. The minimum exception for the first two and the room exception for Jackson. None of those should be "official" yet.

Agree that signing Ellington and Okafor to the minimum and Jackson with the room exception should be official last.

How do we have the room exception in the first place?

I thought if you have 30 mil in cap space you don't get the room exception or the bi-annual or MLE

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