Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[CatgutStitches]

I need this S&T to get finalized so I can stop checking RGM every five minutes.

I need it to be finalized for

1. Order Jersey
2. Play with Hayward in NBA 2k21

FWIW He's on the team now in 2k

With a contract of:

27.91m
29.30m
30.70m
32.09m

No idea if that just them plugging his 4/120 into their calculator or what (im assuming) but thought I'd throw it out there.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[Teal25]

Indiana wanted Hayward for 4/100 and probably would have landed him if Ainge wasn't a greedy snake. We had to beat that offer to get him. If we can avoid the Batum stretch, I'm fine with the contract we gave him. We obviously weren't going to take on bad deals for picks like Mitch said he wanted to do (thanks MJ).

This makes it worse. Why do people keep repeating this like it’s good? Indiana had no way of getting him without a sign and trade and Scrooge excuse me Ainge was being himself and the Pacers walked away so why overpay?

Meanwhile Bogdan just signed for 4/72. 3/90 should’ve been the max that was offered to Hayward. I get it. Lamelo needs developed players but there was so many cheaper options we should’ve explored to keep our flexibility and draft position but hey we will finish 10th instead of 12th place.

According to the front page of Real GM, both Boston and Indiana were offering Hayward in the 108 to 110 range. His market was a lot higher then 3/90. If bogdan's market vs worth was better then 4/72 the Kings would be working hard to find a way to match the offer sheet. W will see....

Once again Mitch had all the leverage. GH’s ego was bruised (which I get) with Tatum and Brown exploding. Indiana had no way of getting him without a sign and trade and Ainge was being his usual arrogant self and caused them to walk away so why overpay? You missed the point. A young Bogdan at 18 million is still better and will be able to be moved than a 30 year old with an injury history.

[CatgutStitches]

https://youtu.be/WixZ8_Yz8p8

Pretty decent analysis here for the haters

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[yazfan]

I need this S&T to get finalized so I can stop checking RGM every five minutes.

I need it to be finalized for

1. Order Jersey
2. Play with Hayward in NBA 2k21

FWIW He's on the team now in 2k

With a contract of:

27.91m
29.30m
30.70m
32.09m

No idea if that just them plugging his 4/120 into their calculator or what (im assuming) but thought I'd throw it out there.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Thank You!!

He was not there Sunday (at least in next gen version). Today he was as you said and I whooped up on Detroit online

[BeesWax]

Still sad we did this. I am starting to side with the crazy thoughts of trading for Love. If we are going to make bad choices might as well pair a bunch together and hope we can make it past the first round. I would rather do that than just flush money down the drain like this.

[Snidely FC]

I find arguments saying his contract won't look so unpalatable relative to market rates in four yrs or that we would not have signed any stars next year specious
we didn't HAVE to sign a star
Memphis is an example of a team that built a fun to watch playoff team swiftly and savvily via the draft

[JMAC3]

I find arguments saying his contract won't look so unpalatable relative to market rates in four yrs or that we would not have signed any stars next year specious
we didn't HAVE to sign a star
Memphis is an example of a team that built a fun to watch playoff team swiftly and savvily via the draft

Memphis was a fun story last year, but not sure I view their talent really any better than ours and if so it is barely.

[DY_nasty]

I find arguments saying his contract won't look so unpalatable relative to market rates in four yrs or that we would not have signed any stars next year specious
we didn't HAVE to sign a star
Memphis is an example of a team that built a fun to watch playoff team swiftly and savvily via the draft

Memphis was a fun story last year, but not sure I view their talent really any better than ours and if so it is barely.

cmon man

ja and jjj is a foundation most teams dream of

[JMAC3]

I find arguments saying his contract won't look so unpalatable relative to market rates in four yrs or that we would not have signed any stars next year specious
we didn't HAVE to sign a star
Memphis is an example of a team that built a fun to watch playoff team swiftly and savvily via the draft

Memphis was a fun story last year, but not sure I view their talent really any better than ours and if so it is barely.

cmon man

ja and jjj is a foundation most teams dream of

I like Ja a lot, but he is a 6-3 guard, who we saw teams expose in the bubble because he can't really shoot (9/40 on threes in bubble or 22.5%). Hornets will have a 6-7 pg who teams might exploit because his shooting isn't amazing yet.

JJJ is a good young player, but he scores majority of points on threes (accounts for 44% of his total points). He shots 47 % from the field as a big man (not great) and averages 4.6 and 4.7 rebounds a game in his first two seasons as a pf/c.


For comparison sake PJ Washington threes account for 36% of his total points. He shot 45.5% from field as pf (again not great). He averages 5.4 rebounds (not massively more, but more). So to me PJ and JJJ are about the same player at this point.

Then on top of it I would rather have Hayward then JV or Dillon Brooks, so again I don't this is massively better than us right now.

[snowman]

Celtics fan from North Carolina coming in peace (been a Celtics fan since early 80"s)

Just a little perspective from the Celtics side:

Guys, I REALLY doubt that Ainge would even consider anything with Batum coming back to Boston. Fans would revolt, especially after what happened with the Indy mess, (and you think the Boston tea party started a war lol) Boston is around 20 mil under the lux tax, and Ainge has NO plans in going over it, not even close. With Tatum's new deal kicking in next year, along with Kemba, Brown and Smart's deals, we will be in the lux tax until Kemba comes off the books. With Hayward leaving, the one good thing that came out of it is that we are not in the lux tax this year, so the dreaded repeater tax (3 out of 4 years) will not apply for the remainder of Kemba's contract. Danny is in no way going to take anything back that would start that a year early. He is looking for another wing, and we have the 5 mil TPE from trading Kanter and either the BAE exception or the TPE from the Poirier trade (depends on which was used to sign Teague) So he wants a TPE out of this if possible, but not at the expense of that anyway near kind of money. Signing Thompson to the full MLE, hard capped Boston, so they can not go into the lax tax at all. Just as a guess, but Boston may be willing to take back the 7 -8 mil in a contract that Char is short on, but only in a tradable contract or useful player. Just some friendly FYI from the other side. As a side note, I hope Hayward works out well for you guys, I was one of the proponents of trying to keep him in Boston. Good luck this season !!!

[SWedd523]

Rookie Ja put up numbers and performances that scream "I'm going to be a star" sooner rather than later.

And I'll be damned if we're talking about "exposing" a 6'3" PG lol

[JMAC3]

Celtics fan from North Carolina coming in peace (been a Celtics fan since early 80"s)

Just a little perspective from the Celtics side:

Guys, I REALLY doubt that Ainge would even consider anything with Batum coming back to Boston. Fans would revolt, especially after what happened with the Indy mess, (and you think the Boston tea party started a war lol) Boston is around 20 mil under the lux tax, and Ainge has NO plans in going over it, not even close. With Tatum's new deal kicking in next year, along with Kemba, Brown and Smart's deals, we will be in the lux tax until Kemba comes off the books. With Hayward leaving, the one good thing that came out of it is that we are not in the lux tax this year, so the dreaded repeater tax (3 out of 4 years) will not apply for the remainder of Kemba's contract. Danny is in no way going to take anything back that would start that a year early. He is looking for another wing, and we have the 5 mil TPE from trading Kanter and either the BAE exception or the TPE from the Poirier trade (depends on which was used to sign Teague) So he wants a TPE out of this if possible, but not at the expense of that anyway near kind of money. Signing Thompson to the full MLE, hard capped Boston, so they can not go into the lax tax at all. Just as a guess, but Boston may be willing to take back the 7 -8 mil in a contract that Char is short on, but only in a tradable contract or useful player. Just some friendly FYI from the other side. As a side note, I hope Hayward works out well for you guys, I was one of the proponents of trying to keep him in Boston. Good luck this season !!!

Appreciate the heads up, I think that the TPE is the best situation for Boston, but it doesn't help Hornets at all so Boston would have to send us a significant asset. Obviously if we sent you Batum back we would be sending you an asset. Hard to make the trade work with just the two teams, especially since Boston fans seem to be against including Theis for Zeller or a first round pick for the full TPE.

I do not think it makes any sense for us to accept a second round pick compensation for the TPE if you are unwilling to help us facilitate a trade with a third team to help us from stretching Batum. The TPE is a huge asset for Boston moving forward, otherwise you have no way to add anyone that can be a difference maker in a trade without giving up one of your main guys.

[Rich4114]

The team probably does not want to do this, but I would be perfectly fine attaching Rozier to Batum to a deal to make this work. The question would be what do we have to take back. The Knicks have a surplus of big men and not enough guards or wings.

[JMAC3]

Rookie Ja put up numbers and performances that scream "I'm going to be a star" sooner rather than later.

And I'll be damned if we're talking about "exposing" a 6'3" PG lol

It was more watching the games in the bubble, everyone dared him to shoot by going under screens and he was scared to shoot and when he did it wasn't good (22% from three and 54/137 from field for 39%). He is really their only playmaker on the perimeter so it made the offense pretty unwatchable and led them to a 2-6 bubble record losing by 9 or more in 4 of those losses.

I believe in him moving forward, but he has a lot to work on in his game and I think Memphis desperately needs another playmaker on that team because Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson aren't cutting it as the secondary ball handlers.

[sully00]

Ainge has to play ball with Mitch. They have no way to add talent going forward without trading Kemba and/or Smart. And that would just deplete their depth even more. We 100% have the upper hand in these negotiations, but unlike Ainge I doubt Mitch is going to make absurd demands. Take Batum for a 2nd, or Zeller/Rozier for a 1st; it's your call Ainge.

I think the thing to understand from Ainge's perspective is that he never was on board with the S&T to IND. He was offering the same contract to Hayward and could actually pay him.

Boston will do neither of those options because they don't have the space and will be hard capped with the Thompson signing. CHA can waive and stretch Batum and it just screws your cap space for next year. I don't understand the concept of adding Hayward and then moving Rozier or Zeller I would think that was the core you are going to try and win with while the kids develop. Boston can and might be willing to take back Zeller and that would make the deal go through but I wouldn't be surprised if he does ask for a pick for that.

[SWedd523]

Well... He was a rookie so.... That tends to happen....

[Chapelchilla]

I wish we could go ahead and have the deal actually occur so we can see the whole picture,
Not continue a debate about the hypothetical, lol
Hopefully today is the day!

[mpharris36]

Celtics fan from North Carolina coming in peace (been a Celtics fan since early 80"s)

Just a little perspective from the Celtics side:

Guys, I REALLY doubt that Ainge would even consider anything with Batum coming back to Boston. Fans would revolt, especially after what happened with the Indy mess, (and you think the Boston tea party started a war lol) Boston is around 20 mil under the lux tax, and Ainge has NO plans in going over it, not even close. With Tatum's new deal kicking in next year, along with Kemba, Brown and Smart's deals, we will be in the lux tax until Kemba comes off the books. With Hayward leaving, the one good thing that came out of it is that we are not in the lux tax this year, so the dreaded repeater tax (3 out of 4 years) will not apply for the remainder of Kemba's contract. Danny is in no way going to take anything back that would start that a year early. He is looking for another wing, and we have the 5 mil TPE from trading Kanter and either the BAE exception or the TPE from the Poirier trade (depends on which was used to sign Teague) So he wants a TPE out of this if possible, but not at the expense of that anyway near kind of money. Signing Thompson to the full MLE, hard capped Boston, so they can not go into the lax tax at all. Just as a guess, but Boston may be willing to take back the 7 -8 mil in a contract that Char is short on, but only in a tradable contract or useful player. Just some friendly FYI from the other side. As a side note, I hope Hayward works out well for you guys, I was one of the proponents of trying to keep him in Boston. Good luck this season !!!

Appreciate the heads up, I think that the TPE is the best situation for Boston, but it doesn't help Hornets at all so Boston would have to send us a significant asset. Obviously if we sent you Batum back we would be sending you an asset. Hard to make the trade work with just the two teams, especially since Boston fans seem to be against including Theis for Zeller or a first round pick for the full TPE.

I do not think it makes any sense for us to accept a second round pick compensation for the TPE if you are unwilling to help us facilitate a trade with a third team to help us from stretching Batum. The TPE is a huge asset for Boston moving forward, otherwise you have no way to add anyone that can be a difference maker in a trade without giving up one of your main guys.

and thats where the knicks come in

[BigSlam]

The team probably does not want to do this, but I would be perfectly fine attaching Rozier to Batum to a deal to make this work. The question would be what do we have to take back. The Knicks have a surplus of big men and not enough guards or wings.

The question is that by combining Rozier and Batum you’re suggesting we send out around $50mil in contracts - so who would you expect to come back in the year to even out the money or what team has $50 mil in open cap space to absorb the 2 contracts and how many 1st round picks do you expect to have to attach to motivate them to take on all that money???

[Soul Rebel]

Just to see where we are as of this morning....

The deal isn't "official" yet, right? Have their been any major outlets/analysts (Woj/KOC/etc.) that have mentioned a final deal on this yet in regards to either being just an outright signing w/ stretching Batum or a S&T w/ Boston?

Seems like lots of smoke but nothing other than speculation.