Shams: Fred VanVleet has agreed to a four-year, $85M deal to re-sign with the Toronto Raptors

[Lukeem]

OG isn’t locked up, and when he is you think that core is good lol.

Here are some cores: Luka/Porzingis/whomever they get in FA next year, Jimmy/Bam/Herro, Giannis/Holliday/Middleton, Murray/Jokic/MPJ, Kawhi/PG/whomever, Lebron/AD/Whomever

I could go on. Even if it’s two players for some, a superstar is worth more than 3 players who are not all stars except one.

People are really overvaluing these assets. Once Kyle is gone we have one of the leagues worst cores.

Luka is amazing and the kind of #1 option we are missing unless og / siakam / fvv make more huge steps or we sign someone next offseason.

Porzingas has a tonne of potential but has proven less than siakam and fvv on the bigger stages. Could end up having a forgettable career

You’re counting Dallas already signing someone else but trying say og doesn’t count as locked up. Obviously you’re being a hypocrite. They might not be able to sign someone.

Every other core you’re taking about is noticeably older than those three. I didn’t include our best player because I was clearly focussing on a core moving forward. You being obviously ignorant and not comprehending.

So be a hypocrite and complain some more it will hurt my feelings

I guess you have finally come to admit the OG point was wrong.

You're assuming so much with regard to finding a superstar via free agency. We have never in our history gotten a meeting. This team is not good enough to entice a superstar in the first place because again - Kyle is the glue and our true best player and is aging.

Porzingis doesn't need to be anything, any core with Luka beats us simply because superstars win you titles, and love or hate Porzingis, when healthy he is a star. Would arguably be as good or better than Siakam.

Older or not, what does that matter, that is the core we have. I would rather have the core in Atlanta, or Boston, or OKC with SGA and all those picks, or even Sacremento if Bagley is healthy.

This core wins you nothing unless Kawhi falls from the sky and that is never happening again.

Not sure what the ignorant and trolling has to do with anything, I responded pretty directly to all your points.

Ok
I’m also clearly not assuming we land a superstar (straw man)
You’re also trying to argue our core against the best in the league. Which I’m fine with considering I think we have a “good” core with potential. Not the best core. Not even a top 5. Just a good (above average core) with potential for more.

[Morris_Shatford]

When I saw Gallo's annual number and then started hearing rumblings of what Hayward may get I was worried that the price for Fred would have gone up significantly over my hopes of a 19-22m range.

Very happy with the deal.

[Steelo Green]

We have og for next year then we as a team have him for the very least another year if we want it. The amount is in the air but QO is low enough for our big opportunity in FA who cares I don’t.


That’s if he insists on signing a one year offer sheet or extension only which off the top of your head can you name 2 players that have ever done that at his caliber?



My points were talking about why og, fvv, and siakam is a good group of young proven players.

Pointing out the obvious trolling, straw man argument and complaining afterwards was a simple response to your post which shows your hypocrisy in everything you’ve posted since.

OG will be a FA in 2021. The QO will be extended and he will reject and become a RFA.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/breaking-raptors-cap-situation-ahead-2020-nba-draft-free-agency/

Anunoby is entering the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract and as such is eligible for something called the “designated rookie extension.”

This is a five-year extension that kicks in after a rookie-scale player’s fourth season and allows that player a maximum salary of 25 per cent of the cap, so long as his team offers it up.

With a reported projected cap of $112 million in 2021-22, if the Raptors decide to give Anunoby a max extension, he’ll be looking at a five-year deal worth about $164.3 million (if you include full eight-per cent raises).

That is why the discussion is in place to pay him now or wait and then he might make more. They won't do that obviously for the max FA money kept in place but OG is a FA in 2021. We do not control that, he does. If he falls off a cliff and can never play basketball again, he will take the QO, but clear as day, in this article, and in hundreds more, he will be a FA in 2021.

You're confusing OGs FA. Next year he will not accept the QO, become an RFA and sign a deal with someone else which we match, or he signs with us. So again, he is a FA in 2021.

The point isn't whether Pascal, Fred and OG were not solid players, the point was they are a pretty mediocre core. As much as you like them, without a true star player, they are just a group of guys who make the playoffs and make little noise at best, and that is of course if they don't fall off without Kyle. This is for the umpteenth time, people putting words in my mouth because they are just angry about any critique of this team.

What trolling or straw man argument, you're literally just saying words without any context and blatant conjecture because you have nothing to say.

Doesn’t matter if we extend QO we can still match and maintain him even if he signs anywhere else - hence we have him locked up if we want him

Ah so now we are switching our stance. You said we have OG locked up for two years, that is not true.

So just admit it and move on.

We CAN match it and likely WILL match it, but he’s a FA and likely due for a lot more money than he is worth.

[Steelo Green]

Luka is amazing and the kind of #1 option we are missing unless og / siakam / fvv make more huge steps or we sign someone next offseason.

Porzingas has a tonne of potential but has proven less than siakam and fvv on the bigger stages. Could end up having a forgettable career

You’re counting Dallas already signing someone else but trying say og doesn’t count as locked up. Obviously you’re being a hypocrite. They might not be able to sign someone.

Every other core you’re taking about is noticeably older than those three. I didn’t include our best player because I was clearly focussing on a core moving forward. You being obviously ignorant and not comprehending.

So be a hypocrite and complain some more it will hurt my feelings

I guess you have finally come to admit the OG point was wrong.

You're assuming so much with regard to finding a superstar via free agency. We have never in our history gotten a meeting. This team is not good enough to entice a superstar in the first place because again - Kyle is the glue and our true best player and is aging.

Porzingis doesn't need to be anything, any core with Luka beats us simply because superstars win you titles, and love or hate Porzingis, when healthy he is a star. Would arguably be as good or better than Siakam.

Older or not, what does that matter, that is the core we have. I would rather have the core in Atlanta, or Boston, or OKC with SGA and all those picks, or even Sacremento if Bagley is healthy.

This core wins you nothing unless Kawhi falls from the sky and that is never happening again.

Not sure what the ignorant and trolling has to do with anything, I responded pretty directly to all your points.

Ok
I’m also clearly not assuming we land a superstar (straw man)
You’re also trying to argue our core against the best in the league. Which I’m fine with considering I think we have a “good” core with potential. Not the best core. Not even a top 5. Just a good (above average core) with potential for more.

So what are you arguing exactly?

When I listed the cores originally you said I’m trolling and now you’re saying it’s okay if we’re not In the top 5 or good?

We’re not even in the top 10:

Boston, Atlanta, Lakers, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, Bucks, Brooklyn, Houston (yes Houston, as long as they have Harden they are better off than us), Portland (again have a superstar).

Indiana has: Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, Warren and Dipo. Still sounds like a better core to me.

So yeah, we have a mediocre core and you just switched your stance when you agreed with all the cores I originally listed so now you agree with me?

This is the core we are hoping to entice a superstar with and if we miss will be our core for the next 5-10 years.

[Lukeem]

OG will be a FA in 2021. The QO will be extended and he will reject and become a RFA.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/breaking-raptors-cap-situation-ahead-2020-nba-draft-free-agency/



That is why the discussion is in place to pay him now or wait and then he might make more. They won't do that obviously for the max FA money kept in place but OG is a FA in 2021. We do not control that, he does. If he falls off a cliff and can never play basketball again, he will take the QO, but clear as day, in this article, and in hundreds more, he will be a FA in 2021.

You're confusing OGs FA. Next year he will not accept the QO, become an RFA and sign a deal with someone else which we match, or he signs with us. So again, he is a FA in 2021.

The point isn't whether Pascal, Fred and OG were not solid players, the point was they are a pretty mediocre core. As much as you like them, without a true star player, they are just a group of guys who make the playoffs and make little noise at best, and that is of course if they don't fall off without Kyle. This is for the umpteenth time, people putting words in my mouth because they are just angry about any critique of this team.

What trolling or straw man argument, you're literally just saying words without any context and blatant conjecture because you have nothing to say.

Doesn’t matter if we extend QO we can still match and maintain him even if he signs anywhere else - hence we have him locked up if we want him

Ah so now we are switching our stance. You said we have OG locked up for two years, that is not true.

So just admit it and move on.

We CAN match it and likely WILL match it, but he’s a FA and likely due for a lot more money than he is worth.

You’re arguing semantics and just being contrary while doing a **** job of it. We have him locked up for two years at the very least if we want him. I will wager whatever you want right now we either have him for 2 years or trade him away for other assets.

[Lukeem]

I guess you have finally come to admit the OG point was wrong.

You're assuming so much with regard to finding a superstar via free agency. We have never in our history gotten a meeting. This team is not good enough to entice a superstar in the first place because again - Kyle is the glue and our true best player and is aging.

Porzingis doesn't need to be anything, any core with Luka beats us simply because superstars win you titles, and love or hate Porzingis, when healthy he is a star. Would arguably be as good or better than Siakam.

Older or not, what does that matter, that is the core we have. I would rather have the core in Atlanta, or Boston, or OKC with SGA and all those picks, or even Sacremento if Bagley is healthy.

This core wins you nothing unless Kawhi falls from the sky and that is never happening again.

Not sure what the ignorant and trolling has to do with anything, I responded pretty directly to all your points.

Ok
I’m also clearly not assuming we land a superstar (straw man)
You’re also trying to argue our core against the best in the league. Which I’m fine with considering I think we have a “good” core with potential. Not the best core. Not even a top 5. Just a good (above average core) with potential for more.

So what are you arguing exactly?

When I listed the cores originally you said I’m trolling and now you’re saying it’s okay if we’re not In the top 5 or good?

We’re not even in the top 10:

Boston, Atlanta, Lakers, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, Bucks, Brooklyn, Houston (yes Houston, as long as they have Harden they are better off than us), Portland (again have a superstar).

Indiana has: Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, Warren and Dipo. Still sounds like a better core to me.

So yeah, we have a mediocre core and you just switched your stance when you agreed with all the cores I originally listed so now you agree with me?

This is the core we are hoping to entice a superstar with and if we miss will be our core for the next 5-10 years.

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

[Steelo Green]

Ok
I’m also clearly not assuming we land a superstar (straw man)
You’re also trying to argue our core against the best in the league. Which I’m fine with considering I think we have a “good” core with potential. Not the best core. Not even a top 5. Just a good (above average core) with potential for more.

So what are you arguing exactly?

When I listed the cores originally you said I’m trolling and now you’re saying it’s okay if we’re not In the top 5 or good?

We’re not even in the top 10:

Boston, Atlanta, Lakers, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, Bucks, Brooklyn, Houston (yes Houston, as long as they have Harden they are better off than us), Portland (again have a superstar).

Indiana has: Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, Warren and Dipo. Still sounds like a better core to me.

So yeah, we have a mediocre core and you just switched your stance when you agreed with all the cores I originally listed so now you agree with me?

This is the core we are hoping to entice a superstar with and if we miss will be our core for the next 5-10 years.

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

[Steelo Green]

Doesn’t matter if we extend QO we can still match and maintain him even if he signs anywhere else - hence we have him locked up if we want him

Ah so now we are switching our stance. You said we have OG locked up for two years, that is not true.

So just admit it and move on.

We CAN match it and likely WILL match it, but he’s a FA and likely due for a lot more money than he is worth.

You’re arguing semantics and just being contrary while doing a **** job of it. We have him locked up for two years at the very least if we want him. I will wager whatever you want right now we either have him for 2 years or trade him away for other assets.

No, what are you talking about.

We have him for one year, after that he could easily re-sign, which is what I expect, or we trade him.

We have him for one year only, and next year he is a RFA.

This is factual. What may or may not occur and even likely may occur is irrelevant, you said we have him locked up for two years. This is factually not true. No matter how much you want it to be true because you are wrong, it is not true.

OG is an RFA next year and likely re-signs here, that is a completely different discussion. You said he is locked in for two years, at this very moment in time, he is not, no matter how much you want it to be true to be correct.

[casual_raps_fan]

[Lukeem]

So what are you arguing exactly?

When I listed the cores originally you said I’m trolling and now you’re saying it’s okay if we’re not In the top 5 or good?

We’re not even in the top 10:

Boston, Atlanta, Lakers, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, Bucks, Brooklyn, Houston (yes Houston, as long as they have Harden they are better off than us), Portland (again have a superstar).

Indiana has: Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, Warren and Dipo. Still sounds like a better core to me.

So yeah, we have a mediocre core and you just switched your stance when you agreed with all the cores I originally listed so now you agree with me?

This is the core we are hoping to entice a superstar with and if we miss will be our core for the next 5-10 years.

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

My seven year olds daughter literally has better reading comprehension than you but please tell me how I’m moving the goal posts. I could always use a good laugh and youre hilarious with these trolls attempts so it’s great entertainment. You keep arguing against these straw men you put up and different claims you throw around.

I think raps have a good young core with potential to be great. If I had to rank them I’d easily put them in the top 10 best situations moving forward to contend over the next 10 years. You’d prefer Sacramento, Utah, Portland, pacers, Atlanta, Philly, Denver, lal, lAc, bucks, Houston, Miami, Boston, brk, thunder and Dallas. I think you should go cheer for those teams or just bandwagon from team to team. Or stay here and entertain me with your garbage takes. I really don’t care.

I’ll enjoy cheering a management and the core we have developed mostly internally and produced the most consistent (of top 3) contention over the better part of the last decade the main part of core moving forward that we are in no immediate danger of losing.

[Chandan]

Watch on YouTube

has this been posted yet?

I might change my tune on FVV signing. It's a really feel good story and if it inspires some short kid out there, it might just be worth it to have such a character on the raptors.

[wtcantfw]

[Bruin]

Lol did the raptors actually just reveal the city jerseys through this announcement

[Badonkadonk]

Watch on YouTube

has this been posted yet?

I might change my tune on FVV signing. It's a really feel good story and if it inspires some short kid out there, it might just be worth it to have such a character on the raptors.

Hollinger, who works for The Athletic now, pegged Fred's market value at $21.96M before FA started and identified him as the only PG worth starter money. He has a valuation formula called BORD$ based on an amalgamation of three other models, with $ attributed.

https://theathletic.com/2172041/2020/11/20/2020-nba-free-agency-hollingers-top-free-agents-introducing-borg-and-bord/

People can dunk on this contract all they want, but teams regarded Fred as starter-caliber and this is exactly what starters get paid in the NBA. That the Raps signed him with a dip in $$ in 2021 is a huge bonus for the team.

For the drama queens in the house, worst contract award went to the Hornets for Hawyard. Other deals he called out as bad value: Grant, Plumlee, Rondo, Harrell, Beasley, Harris, KCP, Marus Morris.

https://theathletic.com/2218830/2020/11/24/hollingers-nba-free-agency-awards-the-best-worst-and-weirdest-of-a-wild-weekend/

[DG88]

Lol did the raptors actually just reveal the city jerseys through this announcement

Yes they did!

[JJWong17]

Watch on YouTube

So I'm rewatching this podcast and although I know a lot of us got hung up on the 'I want to get paid' comment and read that to mean he would be more than willing to jump ship to NY or something if they offered him the max, I feel like there were a few other things he said that hinted towards wanting to come back to TO:

1. He made a note that he had never been on a losing team. In the moment, it just felt like he was summing up his career while he responded to another question but I think this is actually pretty telling because of how much a point of pride this was for him. He had always been on a winning team and he seemed to value knowing that his contributions meant something. He wasn't ready to just play an 82 game grind so that he could then spend his summer watching other teams in the playoffs. And that's not to say he couldn't have helped NY start winning but that's a far steeper hill to climb than staying with us

2. He talked about how even though he did want to run his own team and how in Toronto, he was being asked to do a lot of things that he didn't naturally do, like catch and shoot and slash, he wasn't in any sort of rush to become The Man as far as a point guard goes. There's a sense that he knows it will happen in his life eventually and he was perfectly happy to exist alongside Lowry in a non-traditional PG role.

I don't know what the other offers Fred got were so it's possible our 4/$85 mil was in the same ballpark as he was getting from other interested teams, in which case he really wouldn't have any reason to leave, but it's still interesting to go back and listen to some of the things he said

[Clay Davis]

So what are you arguing exactly?

When I listed the cores originally you said I’m trolling and now you’re saying it’s okay if we’re not In the top 5 or good?

We’re not even in the top 10:

Boston, Atlanta, Lakers, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, Bucks, Brooklyn, Houston (yes Houston, as long as they have Harden they are better off than us), Portland (again have a superstar).

Indiana has: Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, Warren and Dipo. Still sounds like a better core to me.

So yeah, we have a mediocre core and you just switched your stance when you agreed with all the cores I originally listed so now you agree with me?

This is the core we are hoping to entice a superstar with and if we miss will be our core for the next 5-10 years.

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

How's it a poor argument? He just said we have an above average core. You're trying to make it a bad argument by literally strawmanning him lmao and now that you got dumpstered you lack the awareness to see it

[Dalek]

Watch on YouTube

has this been posted yet?

I might change my tune on FVV signing. It's a really feel good story and if it inspires some short kid out there, it might just be worth it to have such a character on the raptors.

Hollinger, who works for The Athletic now, pegged Fred's market value at $21.96M before FA started and identified him as the only PG worth starter money. He has a valuation formula called BORD$ based on an amalgamation of three other models, with $ attributed.

https://theathletic.com/2172041/2020/11/20/2020-nba-free-agency-hollingers-top-free-agents-introducing-borg-and-bord/

People can dunk on this contract all they want, but teams regarded Fred as starter-caliber and this is exactly what starters get paid in the NBA. That the Raps signed him with a dip in $$ in 2021 is a huge bonus for the team.

For the drama queens in the house, worst contract award went to the Hornets for Hawyard. Other deals he called out as bad value: Grant, Plumlee, Rondo, Harrell, Beasley, Harris, KCP, Marus Morris.

https://theathletic.com/2218830/2020/11/24/hollingers-nba-free-agency-awards-the-best-worst-and-weirdest-of-a-wild-weekend/

I don't have any issue with FVV's dollars, although I am curious where his contract stands for players who are 6 foot or shorter. I can only think of Kemba Walker getting a big contract in recent times making $34m per season. I definitely think FVV is in Walker's class, although I want Fred to start making more mid range shots like Kemba.

I subscribe to the Ahtletic and Hollinger also rated Aron Baynes and Tristan Thompson worthy of $2.6 m or less contracts, so I am not as confident in BORD$. Also, Hassan Whiteside is apparently worth $17m.

[Steelo Green]

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

How's it a poor argument? He just said we have an above average core. You're trying to make it a bad argument by literally strawmanning him lmao and now that you got dumpstered you lack the awareness to see it

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

[Clay Davis]

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

How's it a poor argument? He just said we have an above average core. You're trying to make it a bad argument by literally strawmanning him lmao and now that you got dumpstered you lack the awareness to see it

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

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