Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[Gianstoppable]

Snell got $44mm, Plumlee got $52mm

That Plumlee contract is still the standard by which I judge all bad contracts. WTF

I’ll take your post and raise it. That Plumlee deal was only 12 months after we had already given Monroe $51 million and Henson $44 million. And both those guys were still on the damn roster.

Best part about that is I made fun of Alex Lasry tweeting about how they have the best center rotation in the league after that saying they will all need to have assets attached to move on after a season or realizing what a big mistake they made and he debated with me tooth and nail but I will say he was pleasant to debate with

[Daver]

I do not know if DDV will ever reach Buddys level,

Absolutely agree god can DDV be any more overrated than he is on this board you would think ges already a all star and the best 2 in the league

I’m told he’s top ten

Yes he is at missed shots at the rim probably top 5

[blazza18]

Lord no. DDV and Brook May be better than buddy by themselves.

I do not know if DDV will ever reach Buddys level,

Absolutely agree god can DDV be any more overrated than he is on this board you would think ges already a all star and the best 2 in the league

Agreed. DDV was another bad decision made by GM Jon Horst.

[coolhandluke121]

Our D got us nowhere vs Miami. Brook was unplayable vs Miami. Hill and DDV pretty much did not make a difference vs miami. Hield is not a bad player and maybe Giannis can take him under his wing.

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

[LuessiT]

Whats Noah Vonleh up to, think he'd accept the vet min?

Can't believe he's still only 25. I always liked him. Would be good with him or Diallo at the min for a strong but switchy big to back up Brook, if the money is there.

Vonleh is significantly stronger than Diallo and there was reported interested before he signed for the Knicks. He's another guy who's much more skilled than the role in the NBA requires him to be. The key for either of these two is two figure out how to use their skill surplus.

[ShootingtheJ]

Absolutely agree god can DDV be any more overrated than he is on this board you would think ges already a all star and the best 2 in the league

I’m told he’s top ten

Yes he is at missed shots at the rim probably top 5

Despite the eye test, he's actually quite good at the rim. He also shot 57% on 2 point shots. What are all these shots he's making?

[ShootingtheJ]

I honestly wouldn’t mind getting off of Brooks deal after watching Vuc and Bam eat his lunch in the playoffs.

He’s only going to get slower.

Brook played the defense that Bud wanted him to, which is clogging the middle and secondarily getting out on the shooters. It was a disaster defense, but not Lopez's fault. Without Lopez, the Bucks cannot play that kind of defense, unless they commit to Giannis playing center. Then, of course, they'd have to find another center. Portis can't defend me he's so bad.

I expect Portis will defend quite well with the Bucks, and he wasn't bad with other teams.

[midranger]

Our D got us nowhere vs Miami. Brook was unplayable vs Miami. Hill and DDV pretty much did not make a difference vs miami. Hield is not a bad player and maybe Giannis can take him under his wing.

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

[BigO]

Our D got us nowhere vs Miami. Brook was unplayable vs Miami. Hill and DDV pretty much did not make a difference vs miami. Hield is not a bad player and maybe Giannis can take him under his wing.

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

It's also not just the Miami series. The Bucks were dreadful on both offense and defense throughout the bubble. They didn't look good against Orlando and then were dominated by the Heat. Better shooters will help, but the main variable was the coaching. Bud was playing one dimensional checkers and Spoelstra was playing chess. Both offensively and defensively Bud was outcoached against the Heat and Toronto last year. If Bud doesn't expand his game (much like everyone wants DDV to do), then the Bucks will still have problems.

[LuessiT]

Read on Twitter

Frank Jackson gone.

[coolhandluke121]

Our D got us nowhere vs Miami. Brook was unplayable vs Miami. Hill and DDV pretty much did not make a difference vs miami. Hield is not a bad player and maybe Giannis can take him under his wing.

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

I was one of those people! Even so, the Bucks are much better than they showed against Miami or in the bubble in general. They were a disaster. I know they're not as good as their regular season record suggested, but they're a hell of a lot better than that. That's why I can't understand why people are drawing such final conclusions from that series. It's amazing to me considering they nearly went up 3-0 on a much better Raptors team just one year prior and were one of the most dominant regular season teams of all time before the pandemic hit. Hill and DDV were poster children for completely forgetting how to play in the bubble, but that's just not conclusive. We know they're MUCH better than that. Even Giannis played like poop much of the time. Never seen him play so selfish and make such poor decisions. The mentality of having to get rid of so many of those guys at all costs is just an overreaction causing the Bucks to make changes for the sake of change and cause other problems in the process, such as Forbes and Augustin not being able to defend a chair and Portis being even worse while being a selfish chucker. Hield would just be a different guy to complain about for different reasons.

[ShootingtheJ]

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

I was one of those people! Even so, the Bucks are much better than they showed against Miami or in the bubble in general. They were a disaster. I know they're not as good as their regular season record suggested, but they're a hell of a lot better than that. That's why I can't understand why people are drawing such final conclusions from that series. It's amazing to me considering they nearly went up 3-0 on a much better Raptors team just one year prior and were one of the most dominant regular season teams of all time before the pandemic hit. Hill and DDV were poster children for completely forgetting how to play in the bubble, but that's just not conclusive. We know they're MUCH better than that. Even Giannis played like poop much of the time. Never seen him play so selfish and make such poor decisions. The mentality of having to get rid of so many of those guys at all costs is just an overreaction causing the Bucks to make changes for the sake of change and cause other problems in the process, such as Forbes and Augustin not being able to defend a chair and Portis being even worse while being a selfish chucker. Hield would just be a different guy to complain about for different reasons.

One thing that isn't talked about enough is how the Bucks decided not to rush into bubble workouts, and held extremely relaxed practices. It helped the team avoid injuries, but it also made us look like a team that hadn't even practiced, because we really didn't.

They tried a strategy, it backfired. This is still a really good team. Hope we never have to chart a bubble strategy again.

[BigO]

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

I was one of those people! Even so, the Bucks are much better than they showed against Miami or in the bubble in general. They were a disaster. I know they're not as good as their regular season record suggested, but they're a hell of a lot better than that. That's why I can't understand why people are drawing such final conclusions from that series. It's amazing to me considering they nearly went up 3-0 on a much better Raptors team just one year prior and were one of the most dominant regular season teams of all time before the pandemic hit. Hill and DDV were poster children for completely forgetting how to play in the bubble, but that's just not conclusive. We know they're MUCH better than that. Even Giannis played like poop much of the time. Never seen him play so selfish and make such poor decisions. The mentality of having to get rid of so many of those guys at all costs is just an overreaction causing the Bucks to make changes for the sake of change and cause other problems in the process, such as Forbes and Augustin not being able to defend a chair and Portis being even worse while being a selfish chucker. Hield would just be a different guy to complain about for different reasons.

I agree with you about making all these personnel changes, although I think Bledsoe had to go. But you don't address the fact that there is a coaching problem. If Bud continues to go all in on one offensive and one defensive scheme, we will have the same results, no matter who is playing.

Have you ever seen Bud's timeout huddles? I go to a lot of games and he spends all but 30 seconds with his coaches. Every other coach goes back to his team and makes the necessary adjustments. With Bud, he needs no time in the huddle, because he only teaches one concept. And if it doesn't work, like the last two playoff years, then the scapegoat is the talent and not him. It's a huge problem. He needs to teach some zone defensive principles and a switching man defense, like every other smart coach. And on offense he has to have multiple sets, not just Giannis creating.

[coolhandluke121]

I have no more words for those of you who are drawing so many final conclusions from the Miami series.

People were quite prospectively questioning the strategy of leaving 3 point shooters wide open and wondering if Brook would get played off the court being too slow in pick and roll. People were also openly questioning if we had the shooters/playmakers to win if Giannis got walled off. Literally all year that was discussed here after the Toronto series. Then it happened. Again.

It's also not just the Miami series. The Bucks were dreadful on both offense and defense throughout the bubble. They didn't look good against Orlando and then were dominated by the Heat. Better shooters will help, but the main variable was the coaching. Bud was playing one dimensional checkers and Spoelstra was playing chess. Both offensively and defensively Bud was outcoached against the Heat and Toronto last year. If Bud doesn't expand his game (much like everyone wants DDV to do), then the Bucks will still have problems.

If Bud was the same bad coach both seasons, why were they one ft away from going up 3-0 on a much better team in 2019? Was it just completely random luck - a roll of the dice? And saying they were dreadful throughout the bubble just goes to show that they were not playing nearly up to their proven ability and talent, which is exactly my point. They have proven over and over that they are much more talented than that, and it was the weirdest playoff situation in the history of any major sport, so I don't understand how so many people can draw such final, blanket conclusions from that unless they're stealth trolling me. It's mind-boggling.

By all means, lament the established 2 year track record of Bledsoe being a good player but poor fit, team-wide bad decision-making, lack of play-making off the dribble, inconsistent 3-point shooting, and conceding lots of open 3's in the name of defending the paint. But ffs at least acknowledge that they had the best record and differential by far two years in a row and were on the verge of going up 3-0 on a much better team than Miami in the 2019 ECF despite all the exact same problems. If all you had seen was the bubble, you'd think they were a borderline top-10 at best, but that's categorically absurd.

[mke_design]

Read on Twitter

Frank Jackson gone.

But its not Frank Mason III

[coolhandluke121]

I agree with you about making all these personnel changes, although I think Bledsoe had to go. But you don't address the fact that there is a coaching problem. If Bud continues to go all in on one offensive and one defensive scheme, we will have the same results, no matter who is playing.

Have you ever seen Bud's timeout huddles? I go to a lot of games and he spends all but 30 seconds with his coaches. Every other coach goes back to his team and makes the necessary adjustments. With Bud, he needs no time in the huddle, because he only teaches one concept. And if it doesn't work, like the last two playoff years, then the scapegoat is the talent and not him. It's a huge problem. He needs to teach some zone defensive principles and a switching man defense, like every other smart coach. And on offense he has to have multiple sets, not just Giannis creating.

That's a reasonable critique as long as everyone can acknowledge that they still were 10x better in 2019 against a better team than Miami despite having all the same problems. I'm not even blaming the talent per se; I'm just saying their heads and hearts weren't in it. We didn't see the real Bucks for more than about 6 halves of play the entire damn bubble. That was the real problem. They will be much better in the 2021 playoffs, provided they're healthy, but people will credit all the changes when in reality they would have been much better in 2021 even if they had brought the whole team back, because frankly they are just much better than they showed in 2020.

I don't think the problem is Bud's system per se, but it would be nice to be able to play different systems - especially switching more on defense. I think it's a reasonable system for the personnel though. I truly believe that. And I think they would have had a lot of bad decision-makers regardless of the system.

[KidA24]

Snell got $44mm, Plumlee got $52mm

That Plumlee contract is still the standard by which I judge all bad contracts. WTF

It honestly broke my brain when those contract terms came out. Will never forget it.

I still think they intended to offer him 13 over 4 years and his agent was like "13 a year for 4 years? We're in" and Hammond was too nice to correct them.

[BigO]

I agree with you about making all these personnel changes, although I think Bledsoe had to go. But you don't address the fact that there is a coaching problem. If Bud continues to go all in on one offensive and one defensive scheme, we will have the same results, no matter who is playing.

Have you ever seen Bud's timeout huddles? I go to a lot of games and he spends all but 30 seconds with his coaches. Every other coach goes back to his team and makes the necessary adjustments. With Bud, he needs no time in the huddle, because he only teaches one concept. And if it doesn't work, like the last two playoff years, then the scapegoat is the talent and not him. It's a huge problem. He needs to teach some zone defensive principles and a switching man defense, like every other smart coach. And on offense he has to have multiple sets, not just Giannis creating.

That's a reasonable critique as long as everyone can acknowledge that they still were 10x better in 2019 against a better team than Miami despite having all the same problems. I'm not even blaming the talent per se; I'm just saying their heads and hearts weren't in it. We didn't see the real Bucks for more than about 6 halves of play the entire damn bubble. That was the real problem. They will be much better in the 2021 playoffs, provided they're healthy, but people will credit all the changes when in reality they would have been much better in 2021 even if they had brought the whole team back, because frankly they are just much better than they showed in 2020.

I don't think the problem is Bud's system per se, but it would be nice to be able to play different systems - especially switching more on defense. I think it's a reasonable system for the personnel though. I truly believe that. And I think they would have had a lot of bad decision-makers regardless of the system.

Actually, your critique is based on believing that what happened to the Bucks in the playoffs the last two years is just a random occurrence and that we should rely on their regular season record and assume everything will be fine the "next time". My thoughts are that there are actual basketball reasons for why it happened and it's mainly based on coaching, as I detailed.

The Bucks play a great man to man defense without switching, but the good teams in the playoffs can concentrate on breaking it down. And the best coaches like Spoelstra know how to beat it. I was at the first regular season game against Miami and Miami shredded the Bucks defense in the first half without Jimmy Butler and playing three first year guards. Miami won in OT but it was clear Miami knew how to break the Bucks down. In the playoffs, I thought surely Bud would change it up, but he refused.

To do the same things and think you will get different results is to ignore realty and what your eyes tell you.

[coolhandluke121]

[


Actually, your critique is based on believing that what happened to the Bucks in the playoffs the last two years is just a random occurrence and that we should rely on their regular season record and assume everything will be fine the "next time". My thoughts are that there are actual basketball reasons for why it happened and it's mainly based on coaching, as I detailed.

The Bucks play a great man to man defense without switching, but the good teams in the playoffs can concentrate on breaking it down. And the best coaches like Spoelstra know how to beat it. I was at the first regular season game against Miami and Miami shredded the Bucks defense in the first half without Jimmy Butler and playing three first year guards. Miami won in OT but it was clear Miami knew how to break the Bucks down. In the playoffs, I thought surely Bud would change it up, but he refused.

To do the same things and think you will get different results is to ignore realty and what your eyes tell you.

But then why were the playoffs in 2019, when Bud was supposedly so dramatically outcoached by Nurse (and I assume you think Brad Stevens is a much better coach too) and yet the Bucks were far better than they were in 2020? I mean, please don't tell my you don't think there was a dramatic difference.

And the part in bold is utter nonsense. I spent a lot of time carefully articulating how all the critiques are valid and yet still don't do jack**** to explain the difference between 2019 and 2020 in the playoffs. I'm using precisely the 2019 playoffs as a better indication of the Bucks talent and NOT a random occurrence, which the bubble clearly was (some good players didn't even participate despite being on contenders!), but it appears you didn't read the post at all. So again, please explain the difference between 2019 and 2020 if you really think the 2020 playoffs is a truer indication of how good the Bucks were as a team, compared to not only the now-infamous regular season record over 2 years but also the playoffs in 2019 when they completely dismantled a team with comparable talent to Miami and nearly did the same to a much better team before FVV went nuclear and Giannis started a ft slump that looks like it might last his whole career.

[adam10]

Super intrigued to see how Mamadi Diakite progresses throughout the year. Off his highlight reel his stroke looks pretty nice and he seems to have some explosiveness and X factor. Listed at 6’9 but he looks taller?