Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[PrimeThyme]

Cole may end up being one of the most divisive players ever on this board. Especially because imo, even if he does end up filling the stat sheet on this team, I'm not positive that he's going to make much of an impact to the win column. Similar to the lack of true impact Vuc has made for most of his time here (outside of arguably the last two seasons) despite filling up the box score. Which is what has made him such a divisive player on this board through the years.

Time will tell. We will see what talent we can get around him. Isaac is the biggest swing player of all for us, I'm just not certain that he can ever stay healthy.

[Skin]

To log assist teammate has, you know... make shot. So it's not like his ability to set player will translate in numbers when team has amazing total of 2 players that can shoot
That's why potential assists says way more about playmaker than raw assist numbers.

It's impossible to log lot of assists if your center is 34% percent rolling big and your "shooters" are MCW, Iwundu, Aminu and Fultz.

Are you missing the parallel to Cole?

Funny how Pepe uses the bad teammate argument to defend DJ, but can't accept the same reasoning for Cole.

Funny how pepe is getting called out by someone with 4 posts.

[yoyojw17]

I’m terrified of our pg rotation even if Fultz doesn’t go down with an injury.

I wish we did have a playmaking vet to kinda mentor Cole though. Even a guy at the end of his career that didn’t play much.

Does his dad count? Lol

[pepe1991]

Are you missing the parallel to Cole?

Funny how Pepe uses the bad teammate argument to defend DJ, but can't accept the same reasoning for Cole.

Funny how pepe is getting called out by someone with 4 posts.

I'm trying to use common sense.
DJ was guy who was part of best Magic linesup two years in a row.
As starter he was also way above average shooter.
He was for 11 years in nba, indeed one of best turnover- to assist guys.

Non of this is even debatable.

Cole Anthony had bad college year. Also not debatable.
People use bad teammates as excuse. Also factual. Read comments.
People ignore that at same level DJ Augustin, in second year at college, was 20,pretty much same age as Cole was in his freshman year. Also- factual.

Now when we established facts. Let's use numbers and more- facts.
Trash teammates argument is used to deflect CA bad performances.

But what DJ Augustin teammates, ones he lead to 31-7 record did after college?
AJ Abrams ended up in Greece, went undrafted. Never played in nba.
Damion James played 39 nba games over 4 years. Use this word "played" as loose translation.And this " 4years" very lightly. He logged 14 games in 3 years.
Connor Atchle was D league backup.

That's it.

We can keep harping onto this " bad teammates" argument but most college players actually don't turn pros. I think like 95% of them. Every player can get "bad teammates" excuse.

What does all this mean?
Nothing really. But it's good insight what to expect from Cole Anthony.
He is trigger happy, combo guard that did not show advanced playmaking skills. He also loves them bad jumpshots.

WEAKNESSES
Poor shot selection: Cole Anthony showed repeatedly that he needs to improve his shot selection at the next level. On one end, Cole Anthony looks like a great offensive prospect. When you dig deeper, his lack of burst and how he struggled to score against college defenses is a concern. Cole Anthony must show strides in his ability to become a better playmaker with the ball. He needs to become a better decision maker as a lead guard and show he can limit turnovers and play within an offense. His 39% field goal percentage around the rim is baffling. So is his 18.5 points on 15.7 shot attempts per game. That’s not good enough but when you understand the talent that surrounded him at UNC it is easily forgivable.
What position is he? While Cole Anthony can make the easy pass, he doesn’t see the court well enough to lead an NBA offense at the point guard spot. Anthony instantly becomes an undersized combo guard with a small wingspan (6’4) and poor efficiency numbers if he doesn’t develop his point guard skills. In a switch-heavy league where teams are only as good as their weakest defender, this could pose to be a real problem for Cole Anthony’s ceiling as a prospect. Anthony’s 3.5 assist to turnover ratio his freshman season is a major red flag. For all the flashes he shows on offense, he also takes his teammates out of the game by over-dribbling and playing too much hero ball.
Needs to improve footwork on defense: Inconsistency and Cole Anthony go well beyond his offense. Cole Anthony gets eaten up on defense in the pick and roll. He’s got average size and at times loses focus on defense. This simply cannot happen at the next level. There have been moments when Anthony’s on ball defense has looked downright awful. I’m talking Jahlil Okafor-esque defense. When tested against some of the best guards in college last season (Kira Lewis), Cole Anthony looked completely lost.

Everything about him, from 6'2- no true position, small wingspan (6'4), poor efficiency, mediocre playmaking yells " bench player".

Can he outplay expetations? Sure. Is it objective to expect from 50% TS college player to do it? No, not really.

Do you know who also averaged 15 ppg on poor efficiency and poor assist numbers as frashman? His father.
Do you know how his father turned in nba? Well let's just say he is more known as television analyst for NBA than actually NBA player.

[drsd]

Everything about him, ... yells " bench player."

Can he outplay expetations? Sure. Is it objective to expect from 50% TS college player to do it? No, not really.

At #15 a rotational bench player is a value selection. I have ZERO expectations for Anthony this season (personally I am more excited to see Karim Mané). Moving forward, if Anthony can evolve in to a 15 mpg backup PG, then I am OK with this draft choice.


..

[basketballRob]

Funny how Pepe uses the bad teammate argument to defend DJ, but can't accept the same reasoning for Cole.

Funny how pepe is getting called out by someone with 4 posts.

I'm trying to use common sense.
DJ was guy who was part of best Magic linesup two years in a row.
As starter he was also way above average shooter.
He was for 11 years in nba, indeed one of best turnover- to assist guys.

Non of this is even debatable.

Cole Anthony had bad college year. Also not debatable.
People use bad teammates as excuse. Also factual. Read comments.
People ignore that at same level DJ Augustin, in second year at college, was 20,pretty much same age as Cole was in his freshman year. Also- factual.

Now when we established facts. Let's use numbers and more- facts.
Trash teammates argument is used to deflect CA bad performances.

But what DJ Augustin teammates, ones he lead to 31-7 record did after college?
AJ Abrams ended up in Greece, went undrafted. Never played in nba.
Damion James played 39 nba games over 4 years. Use this word "played" as loose translation.And this " 4years" very lightly. He logged 14 games in 3 years.
Connor Atchle was D league backup.

That's it.

We can keep harping onto this " bad teammates" argument but most college players actually don't turn pros. I think like 95% of them. Every player can get "bad teammates" excuse.

What does all this mean?
Nothing really. But it's good insight what to expect from Cole Anthony.
He is trigger happy, combo guard that did not show advanced playmaking skills. He also loves them bad jumpshots.

WEAKNESSES
Poor shot selection: Cole Anthony showed repeatedly that he needs to improve his shot selection at the next level. On one end, Cole Anthony looks like a great offensive prospect. When you dig deeper, his lack of burst and how he struggled to score against college defenses is a concern. Cole Anthony must show strides in his ability to become a better playmaker with the ball. He needs to become a better decision maker as a lead guard and show he can limit turnovers and play within an offense. His 39% field goal percentage around the rim is baffling. So is his 18.5 points on 15.7 shot attempts per game. That’s not good enough but when you understand the talent that surrounded him at UNC it is easily forgivable.
What position is he? While Cole Anthony can make the easy pass, he doesn’t see the court well enough to lead an NBA offense at the point guard spot. Anthony instantly becomes an undersized combo guard with a small wingspan (6’4) and poor efficiency numbers if he doesn’t develop his point guard skills. In a switch-heavy league where teams are only as good as their weakest defender, this could pose to be a real problem for Cole Anthony’s ceiling as a prospect. Anthony’s 3.5 assist to turnover ratio his freshman season is a major red flag. For all the flashes he shows on offense, he also takes his teammates out of the game by over-dribbling and playing too much hero ball.
Needs to improve footwork on defense: Inconsistency and Cole Anthony go well beyond his offense. Cole Anthony gets eaten up on defense in the pick and roll. He’s got average size and at times loses focus on defense. This simply cannot happen at the next level. There have been moments when Anthony’s on ball defense has looked downright awful. I’m talking Jahlil Okafor-esque defense. When tested against some of the best guards in college last season (Kira Lewis), Cole Anthony looked completely lost.

Everything about him, from 6'2- no true position, small wingspan (6'4), poor efficiency, mediocre playmaking yells " bench player".

Can he outplay expetations? Sure. Is it objective to expect from 50% TS college player to do it? No, not really.

Do you know who also averaged 15 ppg on poor efficiency and poor assist numbers as frashman? His father.
Do you know how his father turned in nba? Well let's just say he is more known as television analyst for NBA than actually NBA player.

I thought DJ played with Durant in college?

Also his wingspan is 6'4.5" and is bigger than many star PG's. Many of them had poor assist to turnover ratio when the were freshman's.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[SOUL]

https://youtu.be/TkvqePtzx5A?t=1022

Cole Anthony on T. Ross's podcast (it should autoplay to where Cole comes on), light stuff but they just talk about getting to the league, embarrassing stories (Ross talks about when Bamba got fined in that December game, overslept practice), Cole excited to get to work. Said he was 70% when he got back from his injury and played below the rim a lot but is healthy now.

[pepe1991]

Funny how pepe is getting called out by someone with 4 posts.

I'm trying to use common sense.
DJ was guy who was part of best Magic linesup two years in a row.
As starter he was also way above average shooter.
He was for 11 years in nba, indeed one of best turnover- to assist guys.

Non of this is even debatable.

Cole Anthony had bad college year. Also not debatable.
People use bad teammates as excuse. Also factual. Read comments.
People ignore that at same level DJ Augustin, in second year at college, was 20,pretty much same age as Cole was in his freshman year. Also- factual.

Now when we established facts. Let's use numbers and more- facts.
Trash teammates argument is used to deflect CA bad performances.

But what DJ Augustin teammates, ones he lead to 31-7 record did after college?
AJ Abrams ended up in Greece, went undrafted. Never played in nba.
Damion James played 39 nba games over 4 years. Use this word "played" as loose translation.And this " 4years" very lightly. He logged 14 games in 3 years.
Connor Atchle was D league backup.

That's it.

We can keep harping onto this " bad teammates" argument but most college players actually don't turn pros. I think like 95% of them. Every player can get "bad teammates" excuse.

What does all this mean?
Nothing really. But it's good insight what to expect from Cole Anthony.
He is trigger happy, combo guard that did not show advanced playmaking skills. He also loves them bad jumpshots.

WEAKNESSES
Poor shot selection: Cole Anthony showed repeatedly that he needs to improve his shot selection at the next level. On one end, Cole Anthony looks like a great offensive prospect. When you dig deeper, his lack of burst and how he struggled to score against college defenses is a concern. Cole Anthony must show strides in his ability to become a better playmaker with the ball. He needs to become a better decision maker as a lead guard and show he can limit turnovers and play within an offense. His 39% field goal percentage around the rim is baffling. So is his 18.5 points on 15.7 shot attempts per game. That’s not good enough but when you understand the talent that surrounded him at UNC it is easily forgivable.
What position is he? While Cole Anthony can make the easy pass, he doesn’t see the court well enough to lead an NBA offense at the point guard spot. Anthony instantly becomes an undersized combo guard with a small wingspan (6’4) and poor efficiency numbers if he doesn’t develop his point guard skills. In a switch-heavy league where teams are only as good as their weakest defender, this could pose to be a real problem for Cole Anthony’s ceiling as a prospect. Anthony’s 3.5 assist to turnover ratio his freshman season is a major red flag. For all the flashes he shows on offense, he also takes his teammates out of the game by over-dribbling and playing too much hero ball.
Needs to improve footwork on defense: Inconsistency and Cole Anthony go well beyond his offense. Cole Anthony gets eaten up on defense in the pick and roll. He’s got average size and at times loses focus on defense. This simply cannot happen at the next level. There have been moments when Anthony’s on ball defense has looked downright awful. I’m talking Jahlil Okafor-esque defense. When tested against some of the best guards in college last season (Kira Lewis), Cole Anthony looked completely lost.

Everything about him, from 6'2- no true position, small wingspan (6'4), poor efficiency, mediocre playmaking yells " bench player".

Can he outplay expetations? Sure. Is it objective to expect from 50% TS college player to do it? No, not really.

Do you know who also averaged 15 ppg on poor efficiency and poor assist numbers as frashman? His father.
Do you know how his father turned in nba? Well let's just say he is more known as television analyst for NBA than actually NBA player.

I thought DJ played with Durant in college?

Also his wingspan is 6'4.5" and is bigger than many star PG's. Many of them had poor assist to turnover ratio when the were freshman's.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Freshman year with Durant, second year, where they went 31-7, without Durant, who elected to go one and done rout I already mentioned it in post before. In his second year at college he was leading scorer, leading assists guy and already mentioned where rest of his teammates went after college. ( nowhere...).

DJ is solid rotation player in nba. Despite his miniature size he still has 11+ years long nba career. And he is somewhat effective and efficient scorer despite clear lack of size.
He is also solid playmaker.
His true impact was best viewed when he took over Magic starting position over Payton. Offensive rating went up in heartbeat.

Magic, for time being, downgraded PG rotation from last 2 years.

This roster, with kind a bad PG depth and no depth at SF is hardly to make it to 8# seed before play-in. So i assume Magic won't make playoffs this year. So much of "continuity and growth" or whatever crap Weltman talked himself into this days.

[Bensational]

pepe, you keep arguing points people aren't disagreeing with. I'm not calling DJ a bad player, and I'm not saying Cole will be good.

Every criticism you have of Cole is just something we will have to watch and see which ones he's able to overcome, if any.

I'm sure if you wrote out what you think Anthony needs to do on his pathway to becoming a good player most of us would probably agree with it.

[pepe1991]

pepe, you keep arguing points people aren't disagreeing with. I'm not calling DJ a bad player, and I'm not saying Cole will be good.

Every criticism you have of Cole is just something we will have to watch and see which ones he's able to overcome, if any.

I'm sure if you wrote out what you think Anthony needs to do on his pathway to becoming a good player most of us would probably agree with it.

1) Learn how to be point guard, control pace, control offense
2) cut heroball crap
3) learn what shots he can't make

I think i posted that 5 pages ago

[Skybox]

Man, if we could just sign a DJ Augustine...things would be great

Cole wasn’t my first choice but his upside dwarfs DJ. Upside should be what we’re hunting. Solid and reliable keeps us in the battle for 8th slot. We needed to take a swing and I think we did. I hope we take another bigger swing on the trade market.

We could play it safe and steady and easily end up the season out of the playoffs with a bloated payroll.

[Def Swami]

https://youtu.be/TkvqePtzx5A?t=1022

Cole Anthony on T. Ross's podcast (it should autoplay to where Cole comes on), light stuff but they just talk about getting to the league, embarrassing stories (Ross talks about when Bamba got fined in that December game, overslept practice), Cole excited to get to work. Said he was 70% when he got back from his injury and played below the rim a lot but is healthy now.

I cringed at the Bamba stories lol.

[Nyce_1]

https://youtu.be/TkvqePtzx5A?t=1022

Cole Anthony on T. Ross's podcast (it should autoplay to where Cole comes on), light stuff but they just talk about getting to the league, embarrassing stories (Ross talks about when Bamba got fined in that December game, overslept practice), Cole excited to get to work. Said he was 70% when he got back from his injury and played below the rim a lot but is healthy now.

I cringed at the Bamba stories lol.

Definitely puts perspective into why he sometimes doesn't get as many minutes; who knows what's going on behind the scenes.

[zaymon]

https://youtu.be/TkvqePtzx5A?t=1022

Cole Anthony on T. Ross's podcast (it should autoplay to where Cole comes on), light stuff but they just talk about getting to the league, embarrassing stories (Ross talks about when Bamba got fined in that December game, overslept practice), Cole excited to get to work. Said he was 70% when he got back from his injury and played below the rim a lot but is healthy now.

I cringed at the Bamba stories lol.

It will be miracle if he ends up more than a backup. He seems to be more of a meme than player to his teammates.

[Optimus_Steel]

https://youtu.be/TkvqePtzx5A?t=1022

Cole Anthony on T. Ross's podcast (it should autoplay to where Cole comes on), light stuff but they just talk about getting to the league, embarrassing stories (Ross talks about when Bamba got fined in that December game, overslept practice), Cole excited to get to work. Said he was 70% when he got back from his injury and played below the rim a lot but is healthy now.

I cringed at the Bamba stories lol.

It will be miracle if he ends up more than a backup. He seems to be more of a meme than player to his teammates.

You have to question, does he enjoy playing basketball and his seeming lack of conditioning. Just feels like a wasted pick, a measurements draft pick.

[Def Swami]

I cringed at the Bamba stories lol.

It will be miracle if he ends up more than a backup. He seems to be more of a meme than player to his teammates.

You have to question, does he enjoy playing basketball and his seeming lack of conditioning. Just feels like a wasted pick, a measurements draft pick.

If I ever heard that story about Bamba in the pre-draft process I would have been out.

[PrimeThyme]

It will be miracle if he ends up more than a backup. He seems to be more of a meme than player to his teammates.

That’s all you can hope for at this point. Him turning into some sort of rotational player. I accepted that at some point last season.

I don’t see a player who wants to be great. Maybe not even good. He’s everyone’s best friend and all his teammates love him, but none of it has to do with his play on the court. He’s not Dwight in that sense.

If we are outside the top 3 I’d already be taking a look at some of the center prospects in the draft next year and looking to move off of Bamba for whatever I could.

[Def Swami]

Bamba is probably a really cool person. An easy hang. Seems like a smart guy who doesn't take himself too seriously. I'd rather have Bam as my center, but Bamba as my friend. And in the game of life, that's okay! Just not if you're Jeff Weltman or John Hammond.

[Last Guardian]

Man, if we could just sign a DJ Augustine...things would be great

Cole wasn’t my first choice but his upside dwarfs DJ. Upside should be what we’re hunting. Solid and reliable keeps us in the battle for 8th slot. We needed to take a swing and I think we did. I hope we take another bigger swing on the trade market.

We could play it safe and steady and easily end up the season out of the playoffs with a bloated payroll.

DJ is perhaps the worst defensive player in the league, has zero court vision and gets blocked at the rim every time. Its not hard to be better than DJ (from an NBA player perspective, of course, he would destroy me)

[Skin]

I'm trying to use common sense.
DJ was guy who was part of best Magic linesup two years in a row.
As starter he was also way above average shooter.
He was for 11 years in nba, indeed one of best turnover- to assist guys.

Non of this is even debatable.

Cole Anthony had bad college year. Also not debatable.
People use bad teammates as excuse. Also factual. Read comments.
People ignore that at same level DJ Augustin, in second year at college, was 20,pretty much same age as Cole was in his freshman year. Also- factual.

Now when we established facts. Let's use numbers and more- facts.
Trash teammates argument is used to deflect CA bad performances.

But what DJ Augustin teammates, ones he lead to 31-7 record did after college?
AJ Abrams ended up in Greece, went undrafted. Never played in nba.
Damion James played 39 nba games over 4 years. Use this word "played" as loose translation.And this " 4years" very lightly. He logged 14 games in 3 years.
Connor Atchle was D league backup.

That's it.

We can keep harping onto this " bad teammates" argument but most college players actually don't turn pros. I think like 95% of them. Every player can get "bad teammates" excuse.

What does all this mean?
Nothing really. But it's good insight what to expect from Cole Anthony.
He is trigger happy, combo guard that did not show advanced playmaking skills. He also loves them bad jumpshots.




Everything about him, from 6'2- no true position, small wingspan (6'4), poor efficiency, mediocre playmaking yells " bench player".

Can he outplay expetations? Sure. Is it objective to expect from 50% TS college player to do it? No, not really.

Do you know who also averaged 15 ppg on poor efficiency and poor assist numbers as frashman? His father.
Do you know how his father turned in nba? Well let's just say he is more known as television analyst for NBA than actually NBA player.

I thought DJ played with Durant in college?

Also his wingspan is 6'4.5" and is bigger than many star PG's. Many of them had poor assist to turnover ratio when the were freshman's.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Freshman year with Durant, second year, where they went 31-7, without Durant, who elected to go one and done rout I already mentioned it in post before. In his second year at college he was leading scorer, leading assists guy and already mentioned where rest of his teammates went after college. ( nowhere...).

DJ is solid rotation player in nba. Despite his miniature size he still has 11+ years long nba career. And he is somewhat effective and efficient scorer despite clear lack of size.
He is also solid playmaker.
His true impact was best viewed when he took over Magic starting position over Payton. Offensive rating went up in heartbeat.

Magic, for time being, downgraded PG rotation from last 2 years.

This roster, with kind a bad PG depth and no depth at SF is hardly to make it to 8# seed before play-in. So i assume Magic won't make playoffs this year. So much of "continuity and growth" or whatever crap Weltman talked himself into this days.

So let's agree that it's time to trade Vuc, Fournier and Gordon.