RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project: #21 (Charles Barkley)

[Cavsfansince84]

Folks voting for Pettit, what do you see as his separation from Schayes from a half a generation earlier? I don't see a huge gap in peak/prime, Pettit maybe a bit higher highs and lower lows, with the longevity edge to Schayes.

Here's a bit of a retrospective on his career:

Watch on YouTube

Mainly three things:
1. Pettit's numbers are overall better
2. Pettit seems to be slightly more respected within his era with more all nba 1st teams and generally significantly higher in mvp votes. Pettit was top 4 8 times while Schayes was top 8 6 times.
3. Pettit was more efficient along with being the higher scorer with 1757 ts add to Schaye's 1322.

Having said all that I will strongly consider voting for Schayes soon.

[Dutchball97]

Looks like this round will be a bit scuffed again with tactical voting. Barkley is definitely a strong candidate and I wouldn't mind if he's voted in (I have him 3rd on my ballot as well) but it's sad to see so many people keep KD off their ballot completely for seemingly personal reasons.

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

[Odinn21]

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

I don't think people are leaving Durant out doing that out of spite or emotions or labelling him devil. But mentioning Karl Malone doesn't make sense. We're ranking people as basketball players and Durant's decision to join the Warriors is indeed basketball related. Karl Malone impregnating a 13 year old as awful as it is, is not basketball related. So, that's a bizarre stretch to make.

[Dutchball97]

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

I don't think people are leaving Durant out doing that out of spite or emotions or labelling him devil. But mentioning Karl Malone doesn't make sense. We're ranking people as basketball players and Durant's decision to join the Warriors is indeed basketball related. Karl Malone impregnating a 13 year old as awful as it is, is not basketball related. So, that's a bizarre stretch to make.

I don't think everyone that doesn't have Durant on their ballot did so out of personal motives, that'd be insane. There have been people campaigning hard against KD though, I don't think anyone left has the hate brigade he has. Someone like Chris Paul being better than KD seems so disingenuous to me, like when was CP3 ever considered a better player than KD? That's coming from someone who can't be arsed about Durant, while being a CP3 fan.

What I'm getting at with the Karl Malone situation is that there are people trying to bring in just about every intangible and off court thing about KD to justify not voting for him, while not even mentioning the off court troubles of Karl Malone or if you want a more basketball related example look at KG. Complete **** but I've only seen people praise his antics here for some reason.

[Jaivl]

Someone like Chris Paul being better than KD seems so disingenuous to me, like when was CP3 ever considered a better player than KD? That's coming from someone who can't be arsed about Durant, while being a CP3 fan.

He probably was every year until 2015, injuries aside. Or around the same level at least.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

I don't think people are leaving Durant out doing that out of spite or emotions or labelling him devil. But mentioning Karl Malone doesn't make sense. We're ranking people as basketball players and Durant's decision to join the Warriors is indeed basketball related. Karl Malone impregnating a 13 year old as awful as it is, is not basketball related. So, that's a bizarre stretch to make.

I don't think everyone that doesn't have Durant on their ballot did so out of personal motives, that'd be insane. There have been people campaigning hard against KD though, I don't think anyone left has the hate brigade he has. Someone like Chris Paul being better than KD seems so disingenuous to me, like when was CP3 ever considered a better player than KD? That's coming from someone who can't be arsed about Durant, while being a CP3 fan.

What I'm getting at with the Karl Malone situation is that there are people trying to bring in just about every intangible and off court thing about KD to justify not voting for him, while not even mentioning the off court troubles of Karl Malone or if you want a more basketball related example look at KG. Complete **** but I've only seen people praise his antics here for some reason.

I mean the sad fact is more people are mad at KD for chasing rings than Malone for being a pedo lol.

like if you tell someone malones a pedo the usual reaction is "lol wtf"

vs KD "HE RUINED PARITY"

and i mean he kinda did but i mean he isnt a pedo lol so its odd but thats how it is, I mean I hated KD till he left too so cant say i blame anyone for it

[penbeast0]

With your vote Nash would tie Barkley for 2nd

In that case, can I change my vote to Nash/Paul/Curry?

Not sure what penbeast is on about since Barkley has a 7-3 advantage over Nash even after you change your vote. Anyone besides Barkley and Durant is going to be eliminated so you will just become a ghost vote if you take Barkley off your ballot.

Trex had just tabulated the votes and it was 4 for Barkley, 2 for Nash. I screwed up thinking his vote for Barkley had counted and it would then be 3-3 instead of 4-3 (I was wrong). Not sure where you get 7 from (or 3 for that matter). Even if you count Whopper's vote for Barkley it's only 5-2 (or 4-3 if he votes for Nash) at that point assuming Trex is accurate.

[Odinn21]

In that case, can I change my vote to Nash/Paul/Curry?

Not sure what penbeast is on about since Barkley has a 7-3 advantage over Nash even after you change your vote. Anyone besides Barkley and Durant is going to be eliminated so you will just become a ghost vote if you take Barkley off your ballot.

Trex had just tabulated the votes and it was 4 for Barkley, 2 for Nash. I screwed up thinking his vote for Barkley had counted and it would then be 3-3 instead of 4-3 (I was wrong). Not sure where you get 7 from (or 3 for that matter). Even if you count Whopper's vote for Barkley it's only 5-2 (or 4-3 if he votes for Nash) at that point assuming Trex is accurate.

I think he was talking about the end round, not the 1st and Barkley has the most traction so far.

[penbeast0]

Hard to talk about the 3nd round when you are talking about the 2nd and 3rd place vote getters.

[Odinn21]

BTW, I think Whopper_Sr's ballot should be Nash/Paul/Curry regardless of the tally. Tactical voting (even though harmless) was surprising to see from him.

[Dr Positivity]

1. Bob Pettit - have been voting for him a while, don't need to elaborate
2. Kevin Durant - I'm low on his regular season impact but he really came through in the playoffs
3. Charles Barkley - Solid longevity compared to some other options here, elite level offense obviously

[No-more-rings]

Someone like Chris Paul being better than KD seems so disingenuous to me, like when was CP3 ever considered a better player than KD? That's coming from someone who can't be arsed about Durant, while being a CP3 fan.

He probably was every year until 2015, injuries aside. Or around the same level at least.

Almost no one had Cp3 better between 2012-2014. KD won MVP and took a team to the finals, and even beat Paul’s team in the playoffs. What was Paul doing noteworthy those years?

[Whopper_Sr]

BTW, I think Whopper_Sr's ballot should be Nash/Paul/Curry regardless of the tally. Tactical voting (even though harmless) was surprising to see from him.

My bad. I will go with my original vote of Paul/Nash/Curry. Or Nash/Paul/Curry. I don't think it matters either way...?

[Whopper_Sr]

In that case, can I change my vote to Nash/Paul/Curry?

Not sure what penbeast is on about since Barkley has a 7-3 advantage over Nash even after you change your vote. Anyone besides Barkley and Durant is going to be eliminated so you will just become a ghost vote if you take Barkley off your ballot.

Trex had just tabulated the votes and it was 4 for Barkley, 2 for Nash. I screwed up thinking his vote for Barkley had counted and it would then be 3-3 instead of 4-3 (I was wrong). Not sure where you get 7 from (or 3 for that matter). Even if you count Whopper's vote for Barkley it's only 5-2 (or 4-3 if he votes for Nash) at that point assuming Trex is accurate.

I'm going with Paul/Nash/Curry for this round. Odinn21 brought up my tactical voting and of course I want to avoid that.

[Dutchball97]

Not sure what penbeast is on about since Barkley has a 7-3 advantage over Nash even after you change your vote. Anyone besides Barkley and Durant is going to be eliminated so you will just become a ghost vote if you take Barkley off your ballot.

Trex had just tabulated the votes and it was 4 for Barkley, 2 for Nash. I screwed up thinking his vote for Barkley had counted and it would then be 3-3 instead of 4-3 (I was wrong). Not sure where you get 7 from (or 3 for that matter). Even if you count Whopper's vote for Barkley it's only 5-2 (or 4-3 if he votes for Nash) at that point assuming Trex is accurate.

I'm going with Paul/Nash/Curry for this round. Odinn21 brought up my tactical voting and of course I want to avoid that.

If your vote is ghosted then you'll still be asked who you prefer out of the remaining candidates if it could make a difference (which it likely will).

[BigBoss23]

Looks like this round will be a bit scuffed again with tactical voting. Barkley is definitely a strong candidate and I wouldn't mind if he's voted in (I have him 3rd on my ballot as well) but it's sad to see so many people keep KD off their ballot completely for seemingly personal reasons.

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

Voters hold grudges and even prominent players who were a big reason in their team’s consistent winning throughout their career is dismissed, while those who “could have” succeeded under the same circumstances are often rewarded. Seems its more about what I think he would have done is more important than what actually happened. Dont forget this board is biased for and against a few prominent players over the last decade or two.

Scoring is still the single most important skillset and that’s clearly been the equivalent of voters getting cute in their voting imo.

[sansterre]

I don't think Durant to Golden State enters into it, save that his playoff numbers there need a small asterisk because of how ideal the fit was (sort of like Amar'e with Nash, but less extreme). My reason for having Durant so low (3rd) is the intersection of a comparably short career and a small stepdown in playoff performance when not in Golden State. I think at his best he was probably better than Barkley or Chris Paul; they just have more years to generate value from.

[eminence]

I've never been particularly mad at KD for going to GS, heck the maddest I got with him was for gunking up their beautiful system, not for destroying parity. Simply put I don't think he's good enough to include yet. Obviously he's not far off and he'd make my ballot soon, but not yet (I think he'd be 2nd in line to make my ballot after CP3).

[BigBoss23]

I've never been particularly mad at KD for going to GS, heck the maddest I got with him was for gunking up their beautiful system, not for destroying parity. Simply put I don't think he's good enough to include yet. Obviously he's not far off and he'd make my ballot soon, but not yet (I think he'd be 2nd in line to make my ballot after CP3).

Everyone has their own feelings on his decision, but the one misinformation I keep hearing is how he gunked up their beautiful system or team ball, and that's simply not true.

GSW still led the league in assists every single season from 2017-2019 so that should tell you his scalability is superb and the team didn't abandon its identity. What he gave them was the ability to get buckets when that ball movement offense is bogged down against a great defensive team. The key was having balance and with the results we saw, I think that balance was indeed found.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Looks like this round will be a bit scuffed again with tactical voting. Barkley is definitely a strong candidate and I wouldn't mind if he's voted in (I have him 3rd on my ballot as well) but it's sad to see so many people keep KD off their ballot completely for seemingly personal reasons.

I just can't get over nobody downgrading Karl Malone for what he did but KD joining the Warriors makes him the devil. Could be a cultural difference or something but idk.

I don't think anyone here is holding KD out because he simply joined the Warriors. You're being delusional and seeing what you want to see rather than the truth if you think that is the case.

Could you explain the parallel with Karl Malone?