OT Bears 2019/20 season

[dice]

bears now same super bowl odds as football team

[nomorezorro]

the idea that anyone would advocate for keeping pace next season is baffling to me. "the offense is terrible [because ryan pace assembled a roster with one plus player on that side of the ball + two top 10 picks turned out to be complete duds]...nagy's gotta go!"

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

the idea that anyone would advocate for keeping pace next season is baffling to me. "the offense is terrible [because ryan pace assembled a roster with one plus player on that side of the ball + two top 10 picks turned out to be complete duds]...nagy's gotta go!"

They all have to go. Why would we keep anyone? The stench isn't going away unless we clean house. They are terrible from the players to the coaches. Stop defending any part of this mess. I want a shiny new offense built by someone not named Pace and ran by someone not named Nagy.

[Susan]

the idea that anyone would advocate for keeping pace next season is baffling to me. "the offense is terrible [because ryan pace assembled a roster with one plus player on that side of the ball + two top 10 picks turned out to be complete duds]...nagy's gotta go!"

The offense has failed because the offensive genius HC has done a poor job of development and a poor job of utilizing the talent he has been given.

I wouldn't lose my mind if they kept him because I think he's done an above average job of drafting and has done a decent job of bringing in FAs. But if they fire him, they fire him.

I'd be happy if they brought back Harbaugh and found a young GM to work with him. This thing isn't like the end of the Lovie era IMO, that defense can still be elite for a minute.

[dougthonus]

The offense has failed because the offensive genius HC has done a poor job of development and a poor job of utilizing the talent he has been given.

While this may be true, the bigger problem that we gave our HC potentially the worst offensive talent in the NFL (minimum bottom 5). Maybe Pace's work on defense is enough to save him there, but no one would get anything out of this offense.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

The offense has failed because the offensive genius HC has done a poor job of development and a poor job of utilizing the talent he has been given.

While this may be true, the bigger problem that we gave our HC potentially the worst offensive talent in the NFL (minimum bottom 5). Maybe Pace's work on defense is enough to save him there, but no one would get anything out of this offense.

Maybe they are bottom 5 talent because of Nagy. We could argue this til we die but I'd rather just move on from even needing to. Just need to gut it.

Harbaugh would be interesting

[dougthonus]

Maybe they are bottom 5 talent because of Nagy. We could argue this til we die but I'd rather just move on from even needing to. Just need to gut it.

As long as we're making nonsensical excuses for our lack of talent, we could also theorize they're bottom 5 because I'm wearing white socks today. They looked awful on paper before the season started and low and behold, they look awful in reality.

There's plenty of book out there on Foles, whom is a bottom of the barrel QB. We've all seen enough of Mitch who can't complete a pass. Anyone watching the Bears can see the offensive line is just a train wreck, and unless you think that we're just coaching up god awful line schemes they have to be terrible in talent. Montgomery is a relatively slow back that lacks a lot of burst and also doesn't run over anyone. We haven't seen him anywhere else, but there's no reason to think he's any good.

You're left with Robinson, whom at times looks like a legit #1 WR but also at times looks like he's still grousing about the lack of an extension and Moody whom looks like he has good potential but has a some key drops this year too and is probably a year or two (and good QB play) away from being a legit consistent WR2. I could buy into the idea that these guys, with a good QB, could be a solid WR group even if they haven't shown it with our cast, but with no offensive line and no QB, any strength at WR is pretty limited in terms of its impact.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Maybe they are bottom 5 talent because of Nagy. We could argue this til we die but I'd rather just move on from even needing to. Just need to gut it.

As long as we're making nonsensical excuses for our lack of talent, we could also theorize they're bottom 5 because I'm wearing white socks today. They looked awful on paper before the season started and low and behold, they look awful in reality.

There's plenty of book out there on Foles, whom is a bottom of the barrel QB. We've all seen enough of Mitch who can't complete a pass. Anyone watching the Bears can see the offensive line is just a train wreck, and unless you think that we're just coaching up god awful line schemes they have to be terrible in talent. Montgomery is a relatively slow back that lacks a lot of burst and also doesn't run over anyone. We haven't seen him anywhere else, but there's no reason to think he's any good.

You're left with Robinson, whom at times looks like a legit #1 WR but also at times looks like he's still grousing about the lack of an extension and Moody whom looks like he has good potential but has a some key drops this year too and is probably a year or two (and good QB play) away from being a legit consistent WR2. I could buy into the idea that these guys, with a good QB, could be a solid WR group even if they haven't shown it with our cast, but with no offensive line and no QB, any strength at WR is pretty limited in terms of its impact.

How is it nonsensical or any more nonsensical than calling out the players or the GM? Watch the games! You can see its not just on the players. There's reasons why there are rumors swirling about Nagy being fired and replaced. You can keep beating that dead horse about the talent of the players but we've seen poor coaching as well. If we get a new GM we have to get a new coach and new players in here as well or we will still be having this same old argument. It hasn't worked at least up until now.

Can he save his job in the remainder of the season. I hope so.

[Susan]

Maybe they are bottom 5 talent because of Nagy. We could argue this til we die but I'd rather just move on from even needing to. Just need to gut it.

As long as we're making nonsensical excuses for our lack of talent, we could also theorize they're bottom 5 because I'm wearing white socks today. They looked awful on paper before the season started and low and behold, they look awful in reality.

There's plenty of book out there on Foles, whom is a bottom of the barrel QB. We've all seen enough of Mitch who can't complete a pass. Anyone watching the Bears can see the offensive line is just a train wreck, and unless you think that we're just coaching up god awful line schemes they have to be terrible in talent. Montgomery is a relatively slow back that lacks a lot of burst and also doesn't run over anyone. We haven't seen him anywhere else, but there's no reason to think he's any good.

You're left with Robinson, whom at times looks like a legit #1 WR and Moody whom looks like he has potential but has a bunch of key drops this year too. I could buy into the idea that these guys, with a good QB, could be a solid WR group, but with no offensive line and no QB, any strength at WR is pretty limited in terms of its impact.

Did your white socks blame the offensive woes on Trubisky and then when Foles who "knew the system" took over realize it only got worse?

Pace has done a good job of building the defense, correct? We've had excellent DCs who have developed the talent Pace has given them and maximized the talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Before Nagy - Howard was playing at a decent level and Cohen started off strong as a rookie. Mitch's first year was decent and people had some hope for his future despite the fact that Watson had already emerged as a better prospect.

I'm just saying, Nagy hasn't developed ANYBODY. Before Nagy, Pace was doing a somewhat decent job of adding talent to the offensive side of the ball through the draft and IMO he still is (Kmet and Mooney should be keepers here), but I honestly can't think of a single offensive player that Nagy has developed. As an offensive HC, that's not acceptable.

If you want to fire Pace because he hired Nagy, makes sense to me. I know who I want them to bring in as the HC either way and IMO that's the bigger issue because Pace has done a pretty good job of drafting.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

And why do we keep assuming Nagy has had nothing to do with the players chosen for this roster? I think Nagy even liked Trubisky before he was drafted. He chose to come to this didn't he?

[fleet]

The only guy Ive noticed hanging his head is Robinson. He still makes plays, perhaps not as many I haven’t checked the numbers.It does seem like the team is at least still trying. Setting Nagy aside, I thought we had a dream team coaching staff??? Unless they all forgot how to teach football. Something’s gotta give.

[Susan]

Maybe they are bottom 5 talent because of Nagy. We could argue this til we die but I'd rather just move on from even needing to. Just need to gut it.

As long as we're making nonsensical excuses for our lack of talent, we could also theorize they're bottom 5 because I'm wearing white socks today. They looked awful on paper before the season started and low and behold, they look awful in reality.

There's plenty of book out there on Foles, whom is a bottom of the barrel QB. We've all seen enough of Mitch who can't complete a pass. Anyone watching the Bears can see the offensive line is just a train wreck, and unless you think that we're just coaching up god awful line schemes they have to be terrible in talent. Montgomery is a relatively slow back that lacks a lot of burst and also doesn't run over anyone. We haven't seen him anywhere else, but there's no reason to think he's any good.

You're left with Robinson, whom at times looks like a legit #1 WR but also at times looks like he's still grousing about the lack of an extension and Moody whom looks like he has good potential but has a some key drops this year too and is probably a year or two (and good QB play) away from being a legit consistent WR2. I could buy into the idea that these guys, with a good QB, could be a solid WR group even if they haven't shown it with our cast, but with no offensive line and no QB, any strength at WR is pretty limited in terms of its impact.

Ok, explain Mike Davis and Trey Burton being cast offs here and productive members in their respective teams right now.

How did Cohen regress?
How did Howard regress and then get discarded (shelf life of RBs are short but still)?
How did Anthony Miller go from scoring 7 TDs as a rookie to more or less the same level today?
How did Mitch regress so bad?

Name one player Nagy has developed.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

It does seem like the team is at least still trying. Setting Nagy aside, I thought we had a dream team coaching staff??? Unless they all forgot how to teach football. Something’s gotta give.

I agree, I was in love with the signings. I was excited about our future after our first season of Nagy. I was even excited for this season. We got off to a slow start but we had the wins even with questionable offense through our first 3 quarters. Then we just dropped off a cliff. I'm not putting all the blame on Nagy but he doesn't deserve to be defended from any of the blame.

I'm at the point where I don't know if I want them to just lose out or win out.

[Susan]

And why do we keep assuming Nagy has had nothing to do with the players chosen for this roster? I think Nagy even liked Trubisky before he was drafted. He chose to come to this didn't he?

Yep, they interviewed him in KC and he loved him.

[Susan]

It does seem like the team is at least still trying. Setting Nagy aside, I thought we had a dream team coaching staff??? Unless they all forgot how to teach football. Something’s gotta give.

I agree, I was in love with the signings. I was excited about our future after our first season of Nagy. I was even excited for this season. We got off to a slow start but we had the wins even with questionable offense through our first 3 quarters. Then we just dropped off a cliff. I'm not putting all the blame on Nagy but he doesn't deserve to be defended from any of the blame.

I'm at the point where I don't know if I want them to just lose out or win out.

My ideal crazy dream world: Mitch starts and balls out, defense takes a step forward and starts scoring TDs and they weasel their way into the playoffs despite Nagy. We fire Nagy, have a franchise QB that we can keep and things keep growing here

Most likely: they win 2 more games, Mitch sucks, Nagy sucks, defense gets a couple injuries and regresses a lil and everybody is fired.

[fleet]

*Nothing constructive to add as usual*. Edited.

[dougthonus]

How is it nonsensical or any more nonsensical than calling out the players or the GM? Watch the games!

Thank you, I appreciate your insinuation that I just randomly make up opinion without watching the games.

You can see its not just on the players.

I disagree. I think it is mostly the players. I thought these guys mostly were awful before the season started and posted about it extensively.

There's reasons why there are rumors swirling about Nagy being fired and replaced.

Sure. You can only fire the coach or the GM. The GM, if not fired, is probably pressured to fire the coach. Those rumors make sense. I'm also not absolving Nagy of blame and saying he's done great (though the Bears record in his tenure has vastly exceeded the talent they have IMO, but whether that's Nagy or not is up to your view).

I'm saying specifically, saying our players are not bad because of Nagy. Whatever his lack of coaching has done to impact the team has not made a bunch of good players perform poorly. We have a very low caliber of talent on offense.

You can keep beating that dead horse about the talent of the players but we've seen poor coaching as well.

Sure, but I'm not saying the coaching is great. You're saying the coaching is so bad that it has made otherwise good GM moves look bad (or at least that is the point I'm arguing against). There's no reason to think that the players are good and Nagy has made them look bad. We are not a good offensive coach away from having a good offense.

[nomorezorro]

My ideal crazy dream world: Mitch starts and balls out, defense takes a step forward and starts scoring TDs and they weasel their way into the playoffs despite Nagy. We fire Nagy, have a franchise QB that we can keep and things keep growing here

Most likely: they win 2 more games, Mitch sucks, Nagy sucks, defense gets a couple injuries and regresses a lil and everybody is fired.

the fact that you even have the ability to fantasize about mitch trubisky turning into a franchise qb in 2020 is...astonishing

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

How is it nonsensical or any more nonsensical than calling out the players or the GM? Watch the games!

Thank you, I appreciate your insinuation that I just randomly make up opinion without watching the games.

You can see its not just on the players.

I disagree. I think it is mostly the players. I thought these guys mostly were awful before the season started and posted about it extensively.

There's reasons why there are rumors swirling about Nagy being fired and replaced.

Sure. You can only fire the coach or the GM. The GM, if not fired, is probably pressured to fire the coach. Those rumors make sense. I'm also not absolving Nagy of blame and saying he's done great (though the Bears record in his tenure has vastly exceeded the talent they have IMO, but whether that's Nagy or not is up to your view).

I'm saying specifically, saying our players are only bad because of Nagy is woefully inaccurate and blinding yourself to what is in front of you.

You can keep beating that dead horse about the talent of the players but we've seen poor coaching as well.

Sure, but I'm not saying the coaching is great. You're saying the coaching is so bad that it has made otherwise good GM moves look bad (or at least that is the point I'm arguing against). There's no reason to think that the players are good and Nagy has made them look bad. We are not a good offensive coach away from having a good offense.

You're right I am insinuating just because how can you not see it? lol I apologize though. Its really your opinion/ theory vs the facts. The facts that are the offense stinks under Nagy who is the head coach. He deserves just as much blame for this as anyone else. Good coaches get the most out of players and my opinion is that he hasn't done that yet.

You disagree, its just your opinion again against the facts which are the offense stinks under Nagy. Sounds familiar.

You are willing to give Nagy credit for the record you believe is better than the talent but you aren't willing to give him blame for the shortcomings. Again, you want the blame to fall solely on the GM and/ or the players. I will bet Nagy has more input on the players on this roster than you think.

I never said our players are only bad because of Nagy. He deserves blame though.

If you're not saying the coaching is great then what are we discussing? Why bother defending any part of this? You are mixing me up with someone else. I'm not saying Pace is a good GM. I merely stated another angle in defense of the GM and players. They've all proven to be bad to an extent. They all deserve blame. I understand coming to the defense of any part of that but if you do it is all based on your own opinion and theory. But the fact of the matter is the product on the field stinks under Nagy. Under GM Pace. No production, you risk losing your job no matter who is REALLY at fault.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

My ideal crazy dream world: Mitch starts and balls out, defense takes a step forward and starts scoring TDs and they weasel their way into the playoffs despite Nagy. We fire Nagy, have a franchise QB that we can keep and things keep growing here

Most likely: they win 2 more games, Mitch sucks, Nagy sucks, defense gets a couple injuries and regresses a lil and everybody is fired.

the fact that you even have the ability to fantasize about mitch trubisky turning into a franchise qb in 2020 is...astonishing

I fantasize about winning millions of dollars. We can all dream. Its all we have at this point lol.