Cap space

[coordinator0]

Agree that signing Ellington and Okafor to the minimum and Jackson with the room exception should be official last.

How do we have the room exception in the first place?

I thought if you have 30 mil in cap space you don't get the room exception or the bi-annual or MLE

You're close. If a team is far enough below the cap to use cap space they gain the room mid-level but lose the bi-annual, non-taxpayer mid-level, and taxpayer mid-level exceptions. It's way more thoroughly explained here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

And for what it's worth with the way bird rights work it's very easy for a team to stay above the cap or any kind of threshold. As long as they don't renounce them they still count on the books. It's just another mechanism to work with the timing of things.

I'm not aware of any $30 million threshold though.

[Pharaoh]

Agree that signing Ellington and Okafor to the minimum and Jackson with the room exception should be official last.

How do we have the room exception in the first place?

I thought if you have 30 mil in cap space you don't get the room exception or the bi-annual or MLE

You're close. If a team is far enough below the cap to use cap space they gain the room mid-level but lose the bi-annual, non-taxpayer mid-level, and taxpayer mid-level exceptions. It's way more thoroughly explained here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

And for what it's worth with the way bird rights work it's very easy for a team to stay above the cap or any kind of threshold. As long as they don't renounce them they still count on the books. It's just another mechanism to work with the timing of things.

I'm not aware of any $30 million threshold though.

Not a 30 mil threshold just thought with us apparently having all that cap space we wouldn't have any exceptions other than the "rookie exception" (exceed the cap to sign picks) or "minimum exception" (exceed the cap to sign minimum deals).

We must have had cap space to sign Grant though it's not clear what space we had after that.

It does appear we had enough space to sign Wood then trade him for Ariza cause that contract exceeds his Early Bird Rights...

All the cap machinations has been hard to follow.

I'm hoping to see a article explaining it and what order these moves were completed



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[ChipButty]

I had us basically capped out after signing Grant, so I'm not sure how we acquired Bradley (who we then traded for Smith) without waiving our mle/room exception.

Assuming we waived the room exception and the tpe we had from the drummond trade, I had us at 15-16M in cap space after stretching Dedmon.

Enough to Sign-and-trade Wood to Houston for Ariza & Isiah Stewart. Also enough to sign and keep wood, but time will tell if what we did was best. I'm fine with Stewart at this point.

Assuming the Ariza/Wright trade goes through next, I have us with about 5-6M of cap space left.

So yeah, I could be wrong, but i think we still need to make a move (trade rose or maybe stretch McGruder/Smith) to sign Plumlee

Would definitely have been easier to just keep Bradley, or at least wait until we got an answer from Grant, before agreeing with Plumlee. Whatever. What's done is done and Plumlee is a very solid vet to bring in.

[Manocad]

I was listening to 97.1 yesterday and they had Rod Beard (Detroit News) on during the Valenti show. I consider Rod Beard to be one of the top journalists relative to having good inside info on the Pistons and while I don't recall all the exact details of the interview, the basic gist was that everything Weaver has done was very carefully calculated under the idea that the rebuild is a multi-year process and that the moves have all been made to continue building draft capital, not "win now" or "rebuild while remaining competitive." The goal is to get as many young players as possible and seeing who sticks. If during the rebuild a player appears to not be a part of the Pistons' future given lack of development or not fitting with a group that does seem to be meshing and developing an identity, that player will be moved, maybe at a net loss if they aren't considered valuable by other teams, or maybe at a net gain if they're more valuable to another team than to the Pistons. And the last move to be made 2-3 years from now? Have the cap space to sign a superstar.

I like that strategy better than the "if we just plug in a Blake here and a Derrick Rose there, we can be competitive." I like the idea of tearing it all down to the studs, getting a bunch of new players, and seeing what shakes out. In other words, organic growth rather than trying to force fit a square peg into a round hole. It's definitely a long term picture and it was specifically stated as being geared towards spending 2-4 years building a team that could compete at a high level for 4-5 years.

A key point made by Rod was that now is the perfect time for the Pistons to go all in on rebuilding for a few years because after that, all the current super teams are old and likely done. Thus 3 or so years from now is the perfect time for the Pistons to rise up as the new big kid on the block.

[MotownMadness]

I was listening to 97.1 yesterday and they had Rod Beard (Detroit News) on during the Valenti show. I consider Rod Beard to be one of the top journalists relative to having good inside info on the Pistons and while I don't recall all the exact details of the interview, the basic gist was that everything Weaver has done was very carefully calculated under the idea that the rebuild is a multi-year process and that the moves have all been made to continue building draft capital, not "win now" or "rebuild while remaining competitive." The goal is to get as many young players as possible and seeing who sticks. If during the rebuild a player appears to not be a part of the Pistons' future given lack of development or not fitting with a group that does seem to be meshing and developing an identity, that player will be moved, maybe at a net loss if they aren't considered valuable by other teams, or maybe at a net gain if they're more valuable to another team than to the Pistons. And the last move to be made 2-3 years from now? Have the cap space to sign a superstar.

I like that strategy better than the "if we just plug in a Blake here and a Derrick Rose there, we can be competitive." I like the idea of tearing it all down to the studs, getting a bunch of new players, and seeing what shakes out. In other words, organic growth rather than trying to force fit a square peg into a round hole. It's definitely a long term picture and it was specifically stated as being geared towards spending 2-4 years building a team that could compete at a high level for 4-5 years.

A key point made by Rod was that now is the perfect time for the Pistons to go all in on rebuilding for a few years because after that, all the current super teams are old and likely done. Thus 3 or so years from now is the perfect time for the Pistons to rise up as the new big kid on the block.

I like it but I just hate blocking young guys PT everywhere. I guess they will play if they are good enough though and will have to earn it.

[edmunder_prc]

A key point made by Rod was that now is the perfect time for the Pistons to go all in on rebuilding for a few years because after that, all the current super teams are old and likely done. Thus 3 or so years from now is the perfect time for the Pistons to rise up as the new big kid on the block.

I like it but I just hate blocking young guys PT everywhere. I guess they will play if they are good enough though and will have to earn it.

The team is mostly young guys now.

If Hayes is not playing, that means Wright is looking good. Wright could be traded for assets or he could be part of the future since he is young himself.

At SG McGruder/Ellington likely are the bench vets. Svi, Jackson or even Hayes can play there.

SF I have no idea. Is Grant a SF, a PF or a small ball center here? All 3? Bey will play some here too.

PF - Griffin needs to look great and be traded or sit. Sekou/Bey/Grant

C - Plumlee plays fewer than 20 minutes. Thats his game. Stewart will play and he might start very soon. He looks like a man and hes only 19.


The team has so many young guys that could become something. Everyone here thinks they should be starting and will be playing hard to prove it.

If a guy like Josh Jackson can play like he did in Memphis at the end, for the whole season, thats another Christian Wood.

The team has a huge pile of lottery tickets now.

[MotownMadness]

A key point made by Rod was that now is the perfect time for the Pistons to go all in on rebuilding for a few years because after that, all the current super teams are old and likely done. Thus 3 or so years from now is the perfect time for the Pistons to rise up as the new big kid on the block.

I like it but I just hate blocking young guys PT everywhere. I guess they will play if they are good enough though and will have to earn it.

The team is mostly young guys now.

If Hayes is not playing, that means Wright is looking good. Wright could be traded for assets or he could be part of the future since he is young himself.

At SG McGruder/Ellington likely are the bench vets. Svi, Jackson or even Hayes can play there.

SF I have no idea. Is Grant a SF, a PF or a small ball center here? All 3? Bey will play some here too.

PF - Griffin needs to look great and be traded or sit. Sekou/Bey/Grant

C - Plumlee plays fewer than 20 minutes. Thats his game. Stewart will play and he might start very soon. He looks like a man and hes only 19.


The team has so many young guys that could become something. Everyone here thinks they should be starting and will be playing hard to prove it.

If a guy like Josh Jackson can play like he did in Memphis at the end, for the whole season, thats another Christian Wood.

The team has a huge pile of lottery tickets now.

True, I guess when you look at it the road blocks of players are nothing special and pretty easy to play ahead of if you want it as a young guy.

[440BB]

I'm enjoying watching the process myself. A GM with a plan, not just trying to plug holes. We may become an attractive place to land for a difference maker in a couple years. I have no idea what our roster will be by then, so it will be interesting watching it play out.

[Piston Pete]

Per WOJ:

Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum's $27M contract to see if there's a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money.

Pistons should fly in there, take on Batum and his contact and see if we can get some picks for our troubles.

[bstein14]

Per WOJ:

Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum's $27M contract to see if there's a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money.

Pistons should fly in there, take on Batum and his contact and see if we can get some picks for our troubles.

We don't really have the contracts to take on Batum.

We'd have to send out Blake and Boston would have to want Blake for that deal to happen.

[Piston Pete]

I could see Boston wanting Blake....making a serious run at the East

To BOS: Blake / pick from CHA
To CHA: GH
To Det: Batum and at least one 1st rounder, maybe some minor salary filler....

[DetroitDon15]

I could see Boston wanting Blake....making a serious run at the East

To BOS: Blake / pick from CHA
To CHA: GH
To Det: Batum and at least one 1st rounder, maybe some minor salary filler....

I’m certain the hornets will not give a picks to assist a sign and trade for a player. Only the Pistons do that type of deal.Boston wants the trade exception and not a player. I’d be glad to swap Batum for Blake but I don’t see Boston wanting him.

[Piston Pete]

Boston with Blake:

PG - Kemba / Edwards / Prichard
SG - Brown / Smart
SF - Tatum / Nesmith
PF - BLAKE / Ojeleye
C - Williams / Theis / Tacko

[zeebneeb]

I could see Boston wanting Blake....making a serious run at the East

To BOS: Blake / pick from CHA
To CHA: GH
To Det: Batum and at least one 1st rounder, maybe some minor salary filler....

I’m certain the hornets will not give a picks to assist a sign and trade for a player. Only the Pistons do that type of deal.Boston wants the trade exception and not a player. I’d be glad to swap Batum for Blake but I don’t see Boston wanting him.

Make no mistake, if Blake is healthy there are more then a few teams he could push over the edge.

If he is, and shows out the first few months of the season, the trade market for him will be booming. His contract is also friendly as the year after he becomes a huge expiring so teams who take a chance on his health could be greatly rewarded, or have the ability to either wait until he expires and have cap space, or trade him as an expiring.

He is the exact type of player a team who believes they are on the cusp should take a chance on. Blake is far from washed, and if healthy, he's actually in his prime.

[DBC10]

I could see Boston wanting Blake....making a serious run at the East

To BOS: Blake / pick from CHA
To CHA: GH
To Det: Batum and at least one 1st rounder, maybe some minor salary filler....

I’m certain the hornets will not give a picks to assist a sign and trade for a player. Only the Pistons do that type of deal.Boston wants the trade exception and not a player. I’d be glad to swap Batum for Blake but I don’t see Boston wanting him.

Make no mistake, if Blake is healthy there are more then a few teams he could push over the edge.

If he is, and shows out the first few months of the season, the trade market for him will be booming. His contract is also friendly as the year after he becomes a huge expiring so teams who take a chance on his health could be greatly rewarded, or have the ability to either wait until he expires and have cap space, or trade him as an expiring.

He is the exact type of player a team who believes they are on the cusp should take a chance on. Blake is far from washed, and if healthy, he's actually in his prime.

Thing is, there's not a lot of teams out there that can carve out nearly 36 million without that team gutting their roster to do so. No doubt there's definitely some chatter on the value of Blake around the league, but mathematically, it would be hard let's say a team like Portland or Denver to commence the trade without a third team coming in.

It'd doable but I'd give it a 20% chance of it happening by end of next year, maybe 30% if BG looks healthy

[zeebneeb]

I’m certain the hornets will not give a picks to assist a sign and trade for a player. Only the Pistons do that type of deal.Boston wants the trade exception and not a player. I’d be glad to swap Batum for Blake but I don’t see Boston wanting him.

Make no mistake, if Blake is healthy there are more then a few teams he could push over the edge.

If he is, and shows out the first few months of the season, the trade market for him will be booming. His contract is also friendly as the year after he becomes a huge expiring so teams who take a chance on his health could be greatly rewarded, or have the ability to either wait until he expires and have cap space, or trade him as an expiring.

He is the exact type of player a team who believes they are on the cusp should take a chance on. Blake is far from washed, and if healthy, he's actually in his prime.

Thing is, there's not a lot of teams out there that can carve out nearly 36 million without that team gutting their roster to do so. No doubt there's definitely some chatter on the value of Blake around the league, but mathematically, it would be hard let's say a team like Portland or Denver to commence the trade without a third team coming in.

It'd doable but I'd give it a 20% chance of it happening by end of next year, maybe 30% if BG looks healthy

Trust me I understand but as a reminder;

https://www.nba.com/pistons/news/rwallace_040219.html

That last piece to put a team over the top can, and does happen.

[coordinator0]

Alright. Numbers update.

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Zhaire Smith $3,204,600
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant $19,047,619
Mason Plumlee $7,936,508
Josh Jackson ?
Wayne Ellington $2,564,753 (minimum)
Jahlil Okafor $1,882,867 (minimum)

Rights To

Saben Lee
Anthony Lamb
Deividas Sirvydis
Jaylen Hands
Nikola Radicevic

-----

Without Grant and Plumlee

Total: $82,991,677
Cap Space: $26,148,323
Luxury Tax Room: $49,635,323

With Grant and Plumlee

Total: $109,975,804
Cap Space: -$835,804
Luxury Tax Room: $22,651,196

-----

So as you can see Detroit does need some more room to sign both Grant and Plumlee if their deals are what I have listed above. I was wrong last night, my quick mental math failed me. Waiving and stretching Smith would get the team enough cap space to do so. So I guess it comes down to which one the Pistons want more. I don't see a big reason to keep McGruder around with Ellington on the roster as another veteran guard. Here's hoping it's him getting cut if a trade or ten aren't made.

Also - technically Delon Wright isn't on the books yet. Trevor Ariza still is. That trade hasn't been made official yet. So the Pistons have $3.8 million less in cap space since Ariza counted for $12.8 million. One of Plumlee or Grant definitely hasn't been signed yet so the numbers above could change.

[Kilo]

I see no point in rostering both McGruder and Ellington. I'm hoping Ellington signing for vets minimum is a sign that McGruder will be stretched.

You don't have Zhaire Smith in your numbers at all it seems. He's making $3,204,600.

McGruder's cap savings would be $3,953,846 so not enough still to fit in Zhaire and the 835,804 you're finding Detroit still short.

Zhaire Smith Salary of 3,204,600 + the 835,804 Detroit still needs to find totals $4,040,404 (huh) and subtract the McGruder stretch savings and Detroit seems to be 86,588 over the cap to sign both Grant and Plumlee. However that is low enough to be a "rounding error" somewhere.

I notice all the draft picks are 120% slot. Is that absolutely standard or could they get $30,000 each less to make up this deficit?

[coordinator0]

Nope, I just forgot to list Smith here. He's in my spreadsheet totals. Numbers remain the same, copying-and-pasting skills are on the decline it seems.

As for the rookies they automatically count for 120% of their draft slot until their deals are signed. They could end up being lower but until then the numbers are set. Kind of nice to have something simple for a change lol.

[MotownMadness]

Nope, I just forgot to list Smith here. He's in my spreadsheet totals. Numbers remain the same, copying-and-pasting skills are on the decline it seems.

As for the rookies they automatically count for 120% of their draft slot until their deals are signed. They could end up being lower but until then the numbers are set. Kind of nice to have something simple for a change lol.

Keep the updates coming, it's helpful when damn near a whole roster gets flipped so quick