2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[eminence]

Totally forgot about Paul and Embiid initially, threw them in there now, wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list of guys on that tier though, just examples that Bam could be favorably compared to.

Who else would you add though?

No orders

My top tier going into next season is (7):

Giannis, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Harden, Luka, Curry?

Next up (9):

Tatum, Butler, Embiid, Durant?, PG13, Jokic, Gobert, Lillard, Towns

Then I'd put Bam towards the top of the 3rd group (still not in order) (18):

Jrue, Middleton, Lowry, Siakam, Kemba, Sabonis, Bam, Simmons, Irving, Vucevic, Beal, Trae, Murray, Mitchell, Nurkic, CP3, Booker, Draymond

Why the question mark on curry? I get it for durant wi the injury hes coming off of

Just a bit worried with a hand injury on a shooter like him. Not that he'd be bad or anything, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if he were only tier 2 either.

[MyUniBroDavis]

If Christian Wood is an MLE guy, Bam is horrifically overpaid.

Christian Wood is just the last of that all-NBA class of unique, non-traditional bigs like Draymond, Gobert, and Jokic that got slept on.

This isn’t a Whiteside situation, it’s much more like those 3 I mentioned.

Maxing Adebayo is a perfect way to guarantee you’ll never build a juggernaut or clear title favorite level team.

Now Ingram has just got the worst rookie deal —->max contract situation since Wiggins so there are levels to this but yuckity yuck yuck yuck at maxing fringe all-NBA guys like that.

Bro ingram is 22 and hes coming off a effecient 24/4/4 as the first year hes been a lead option

I think he could def be a max guy at his peak

I do think that the clear building block is zion and banking on ingram like that is a risk, but its a small market team, theyre not contendors for a guy like giannis or those top tier stars even if they get a max spot. Theoretically they should work well together although in practice i think zion needs to get more touches, like ingram be great but oppertunity cost and stuff

Maxing bam is kind of the same thing, hes potential. Neither are gonna be a top 5 guy in the league probably, but theyre both talented.

[ShotCreator]

If Christian Wood is an MLE guy, Bam is horrifically overpaid.

Christian Wood is just the last of that all-NBA class of unique, non-traditional bigs like Draymond, Gobert, and Jokic that got slept on.

This isn’t a Whiteside situation, it’s much more like those 3 I mentioned.

Maxing Adebayo is a perfect way to guarantee you’ll never build a juggernaut or clear title favorite level team.

Now Ingram has just got the worst rookie deal —->max contract situation since Wiggins so there are levels to this but yuckity yuck yuck yuck at maxing fringe all-NBA guys like that.

Bro ingram is 22 and hes coming off a effecient 24/4/4 as the first year hes been a lead option

I think he could def be a max guy at his peak

I do think that the clear building block is zion and banking on ingram like that is a risk, but its a small market team, theyre not contendors for a guy like giannis or those top tier stars even if they get a max spot. Theoretically they should work well together although in practice i think zion needs to get more touches, like ingram be great but oppertunity cost and stuff

Maxing bam is kind of the same thing, hes potential. Neither are gonna be a top 5 guy in the league probably, but theyre both talented.

Good point. Bam was 22 to start the season.

I’ll never buy just what Ingram is. He’s gonna be a Carmelo Anthony level guy at best, I think at this rate. Simply because I don’t think more will be asked of him. But hey, if I’m wrong, I’d be happy.

[MyUniBroDavis]

No orders

My top tier going into next season is (7):

Giannis, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Harden, Luka, Curry?

Next up (9):

Tatum, Butler, Embiid, Durant?, PG13, Jokic, Gobert, Lillard, Towns

Then I'd put Bam towards the top of the 3rd group (still not in order) (18):

Jrue, Middleton, Lowry, Siakam, Kemba, Sabonis, Bam, Simmons, Irving, Vucevic, Beal, Trae, Murray, Mitchell, Nurkic, CP3, Booker, Draymond

Why the question mark on curry? I get it for durant wi the injury hes coming off of

Just a bit worried with a hand injury on a shooter like him. Not that he'd be bad or anything, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if he were only tier 2 either.

Fair

I will say im a but less worried about curry and injuries on his hand because his jumper is very floppy, like most guys use their fingers to aim it and have a controlled follow through at the wrist, whereas currys hands go like jello and hes not nearly as precise. Im curious if hand injuries effect shooting that much historically, i know kobe had to adjust his shooting finger and his three point shooting dropped from there out but i feel curry doesnt put as much pressure kn his finger to shoot/the power doesnt come from there much

On a side ote if youve ever tried mimicking currys form its so strange, like his elbow is lowkey kinda flared out he has a thumbflick and his hand is on the side of the ball at his set point and it was like the most on fire ive ever felt, like literally you can for some reason shoot it so far if your floppy with it like at halfcourt and your barely jumping

And then the moment i tried it in a game literally only airballs it was tragic, airballs everywhere and went like 0/22 lol big rip

[MyUniBroDavis]

If Christian Wood is an MLE guy, Bam is horrifically overpaid.

Christian Wood is just the last of that all-NBA class of unique, non-traditional bigs like Draymond, Gobert, and Jokic that got slept on.

This isn’t a Whiteside situation, it’s much more like those 3 I mentioned.

Maxing Adebayo is a perfect way to guarantee you’ll never build a juggernaut or clear title favorite level team.

Now Ingram has just got the worst rookie deal —->max contract situation since Wiggins so there are levels to this but yuckity yuck yuck yuck at maxing fringe all-NBA guys like that.

Bro ingram is 22 and hes coming off a effecient 24/4/4 as the first year hes been a lead option

I think he could def be a max guy at his peak

I do think that the clear building block is zion and banking on ingram like that is a risk, but its a small market team, theyre not contendors for a guy like giannis or those top tier stars even if they get a max spot. Theoretically they should work well together although in practice i think zion needs to get more touches, like ingram be great but oppertunity cost and stuff

Maxing bam is kind of the same thing, hes potential. Neither are gonna be a top 5 guy in the league probably, but theyre both talented.

Good point. Bam was 22 to start the season.

I’ll never buy just what Ingram is. He’s gonna be a Carmelo Anthony level guy at best, I think at this rate. Simply because I don’t think more will be asked of him. But hey, if I’m wrong, I’d be happy.

Tbf i dont think carmelos an inherently overrated player, but i think he did play at a time that was worst for one on one wings without strong pick and roll games

Booker uses the p and r some but isnt the greatest passer i feel, and i think those archetypical scorers like carmelo would do well in his role, kobe esp would be freaking catastrophic (in a good way) in that system. The suns offense was pretry incredible with him on the floor, even compared to other offenses with their best player on the floor, and his overall offensive impact seemed like it was superstar level at times even though hes not as good as those guys (defense obv hella drags it down).

[therealbig3]

I mean, Bam to me is a top 5 defensive player in the league, a top 5 player at his position, and a top 15 overall player in the league...as of right now.

As it stands, top 15 level players are worth max contracts. And Bam is only 23 with plenty of room to grow.

IMO, he's worth every penny. Comparisons to Wood are baseless imo...Wood is already older than Bam, and this was his first season as a legit rotation player, playing 20 mpg on a losing team. There's a massive difference in salary, because there's a massive difference between them as players.

[MisterHibachi]

If Christian Wood is an MLE guy, Bam is horrifically overpaid.

Christian Wood is just the last of that all-NBA class of unique, non-traditional bigs like Draymond, Gobert, and Jokic that got slept on.

This isn’t a Whiteside situation, it’s much more like those 3 I mentioned.

Maxing Adebayo is a perfect way to guarantee you’ll never build a juggernaut or clear title favorite level team.

Now Ingram has just got the worst rookie deal —->max contract situation since Wiggins so there are levels to this but yuckity yuck yuck yuck at maxing fringe all-NBA guys like that.

Bro ingram is 22 and hes coming off a effecient 24/4/4 as the first year hes been a lead option

I think he could def be a max guy at his peak

I do think that the clear building block is zion and banking on ingram like that is a risk, but its a small market team, theyre not contendors for a guy like giannis or those top tier stars even if they get a max spot. Theoretically they should work well together although in practice i think zion needs to get more touches, like ingram be great but oppertunity cost and stuff

Maxing bam is kind of the same thing, hes potential. Neither are gonna be a top 5 guy in the league probably, but theyre both talented.

Good point. Bam was 22 to start the season.

I’ll never buy just what Ingram is. He’s gonna be a Carmelo Anthony level guy at best, I think at this rate. Simply because I don’t think more will be asked of him. But hey, if I’m wrong, I’d be happy.

But a Carmelo level guy is very clearly a max player. Unless you think only like 5-7 guys in the league deserve a max, which is unreasonable.

[ShotCreator]

Well guys I just don’t agree. Carmelo was bad at whole facets of the game, and not elite at his strengths to significantly make up for it.

Most years he was treading somewhere between peak Derozan and Kyrie Irving.

As in, worse than Kyrie but better than say 17 Derozan. Most Nuggets Melo seasons were 17-19 Lou Williams level.

Yeah, Kyrie is gonna bring more team level skills than any version of Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, no, never ever maxing that, or trading the farm him like NYK inexplicably did.

And Christian Wood is clearly, just at least as good as Bam as a talent. Impact metrics all say better. I don’t necessarily disagree. But Bam isn’t a small city economy better than Christian Wood, or even close.

Again, don’t question it. Wood just had a season like 17 Jokic more or less. Bad fit with plodding center. Give him minutes, and usage? Clear all-NBA player.

KD/Towns/AD archetype offensively and to cite his age ignores how his growth has been inherently stunted by bad scouting and coaching. Again, he doesn’t even need to get better. He’ll be All-NBA caliber as a 2020 season clone.

But if you actually watch Christian Wood, he could clearly be better. His handle is great at 6’11, and he’s very coordinated. He could improve immensely as a passer and by then we’re talking a whole different tier.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Bro ingram is 22 and hes coming off a effecient 24/4/4 as the first year hes been a lead option

I think he could def be a max guy at his peak

I do think that the clear building block is zion and banking on ingram like that is a risk, but its a small market team, theyre not contendors for a guy like giannis or those top tier stars even if they get a max spot. Theoretically they should work well together although in practice i think zion needs to get more touches, like ingram be great but oppertunity cost and stuff

Maxing bam is kind of the same thing, hes potential. Neither are gonna be a top 5 guy in the league probably, but theyre both talented.

Good point. Bam was 22 to start the season.

I’ll never buy just what Ingram is. He’s gonna be a Carmelo Anthony level guy at best, I think at this rate. Simply because I don’t think more will be asked of him. But hey, if I’m wrong, I’d be happy.

But a Carmelo level guy is very clearly a max player. Unless you think only like 5-7 guys in the league deserve a max, which is unreasonable.

I get where hes coming from in general. I think peak melos underrated and as a player im way higher on him than most, but when you think about it with how salary caps work a huge part of building a team is value for contract. Sure synergy etc etc are huge in it but aside from luxury tax things, the overall raw talent of a team is based off getting the most value per contract

And the way to do this is to get underrated players, put inexpensive players in specific roles where their strengths with shine, etc etc.

But the biggest bargains are gonna be max players by far. Its like, a top 20 guy is a max guy, but the gap between a bron and a fringe top 20 guy is bigger that that guy and a league average player

Otoh though, its just unrealistic

[DQuinn1575]

No orders

My top tier going into next season is (7):

Giannis, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Harden, Luka, Curry?

Next up (9):

Tatum, Butler, Embiid, Durant?, PG13, Jokic, Gobert, Lillard, Towns

Then I'd put Bam towards the top of the 3rd group (still not in order) (18):

Jrue, Middleton, Lowry, Siakam, Kemba, Sabonis, Bam, Simmons, Irving, Vucevic, Beal, Trae, Murray, Mitchell, Nurkic, CP3, Booker, Draymond

Why the question mark on curry? I get it for durant wi the injury hes coming off of

Just a bit worried with a hand injury on a shooter like him. Not that he'd be bad or anything, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if he were only tier 2 either.

Real good list - Similar ? on Durant - I like him to come back real strong and be top tier this year. Also, are you not as big on Zion as me? I gotta put him in the 3rd group right now.

[Dr Positivity]

Well guys I just don’t agree. Carmelo was bad at whole facets of the game, and not elite at his strengths to significantly make up for it.

Most years he was treading somewhere between peak Derozan and Kyrie Irving.

As in, worse than Kyrie but better than say 17 Derozan. Most Nuggets Melo seasons were 17-19 Lou Williams level.

Yeah, Kyrie is gonna bring more team level skills than any version of Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, no, never ever maxing that, or trading the farm him like NYK inexplicably did.

Melo at PF on NYK was actually a valuable player. He won 54 games and made 2nd round with a worse version of Dirk's 2011 supporting cast being used in pretty much the same way by being matchup problem who drawed doubles and spaced the floor with high volume 3pt shooting. The Knicks used the attention on him to shoot a lot of 3s.

I have mixed feelings about SF version that is average 3pt shooter. But he played well in 2009 playoffs and were a few plays from being up 3-1 on the Lakers. I think he deserved max contract, a lot of players get maxed.

Every version of prime Melo is better than Derozan hands down, he is just a more talented player. Kyrie peaks higher than Melo in my opinion but the problem with Kyrie isn't his game, it's that he became one of the most toxic narcissists I've ever seen in NBA the last few years. Melo's personality isn't ideal but I don't think it ever did to a team what Kyrie did to Celtics near the end.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Why the question mark on curry? I get it for durant wi the injury hes coming off of

Just a bit worried with a hand injury on a shooter like him. Not that he'd be bad or anything, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if he were only tier 2 either.

Real good list - Similar ? on Durant - I like him to come back real strong and be top tier this year. Also, are you not as big on Zion as me? I gotta put him in the 3rd group right now.

I mean its hard to peg zion, and im prolly higher on him than anyone

When he played pre bubble, and even at times post bubble although he was trying new thingsbut looked a step slower, he was dominant, averaging like 24 ppg on 30 minutes despite not being the first option and the team not really getting him the ball enough.

But the team around him is kinda weird, adams is an odd fit with him for example

Otoh like, im very curious how his passing deveops, he was pretty good at that in highschool. Bit something thats a bit odd is he was ALOT better at duke, even when he was dropping 20 point games the athleticism and fluidity wasnt there, not even just from a athleticism standpoint but from a movement stabdppint even pre bubble. He looks like he lost that fat he got when he was hurt as well

Theres a fairly good chance ingrams better than him but he could also have a ridiculous year as well. From the perspextive of effeciency iirc he scored on 70-75% of his scoring possessions including offensive rebounds of his own shots, and im curious to see how he plays under van gundy. He might be the best at finishing through contact in the league already

He looks alot slimmer but i feel losing that strength isnt a good thing

[eminence]

No idea on Zion, could be anywhere, lol.

[MyUniBroDavis]

No idea on Zion, could be anywhere, lol.

Odds zion becomes 1B

[LukaTheGOAT]

Zion could definitely be top 10 this season, however it is so vital that he gets back to THIS forum.

Watch on YouTube

;t=169s

Look how agile he is and there seems to be less plodding. His stamina also seemed maybe better too. But perhaps his slimmer version would help him on defense, where at least in college he could guard quicker guards and overall just had more energy for defense.

I'm not really worried about Zion's offense; rather, I want to see where his awareness is defensively. He got lost quite a bit last year (normal for rookies), but in college he looked like he could potentially have elite impact on defense in the NBA. Zion's path to fighting for an argument for best player in the league-which some people seem to think he is capable of-involves largely him being great on both ends similar to a Giannis. It is near impossible for a big to be the best offensive player in the world, unless your Shaq or Kareem, but then again, neither of those guys were up against the monstrosity that Luka WILL eventually be as an offensive power.

Zion is fun to watch nonetheless.

[limbo]

If Zion can be a Top 10 player in the league surrounded by what on paper so far looks to be one of the worst shooting/spacing casts in the league then he deserves the MVP and Van Gundy deserves the COY award...

It's not happening... Forget about worst shooting/spacing... guys like Lonzo, Bledsoe, Adams are also severely lacking in other areas on offense as well...

And i'm still not sold on the Zion/Ingram dynamic either... Neither are good playmakers and Ingram will shoot 17 times per game, because that's his MO...

This is just one of the most weird rosters in the league right now. Lot's of guys with wildly different styles that have clear strengths and clear weaknesses.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

[Dr Positivity]

Troy Weaver reminds me of Brian Shaw where he got passed up for years (You'd think every rebuilding team would want to hire from Presti tree, so this could've happened 6-7 years ago) and then when he finally gets hired you see why they passed on him

[eminence]

Utah not getting a Gobert extension done is kind of bumming me out, think there's a chance he's walking next offseason.

[Mos_Heat]

And Christian Wood is clearly, just at least as good as Bam as a talent. Impact metrics all say better. I don’t necessarily disagree. But Bam isn’t a small city economy better than Christian Wood, or even close.

Again, don’t question it. Wood just had a season like 17 Jokic more or less. Bad fit with plodding center. Give him minutes, and usage? Clear all-NBA player.

KD/Towns/AD archetype offensively and to cite his age ignores how his growth has been inherently stunted by bad scouting and coaching. Again, he doesn’t even need to get better. He’ll be All-NBA caliber as a 2020 season clone.

But if you actually watch Christian Wood, he could clearly be better. His handle is great at 6’11, and he’s very coordinated. He could improve immensely as a passer and by then we’re talking a whole different tier.

This is a crazy take, imho. Wood had one good statictical season on a lottery team and Bam was 2nd best player on a finals team with a 18/10/4.5 line on 62% TS