Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

[KGdaBom]

I did not know that about the Juancho and Layman numbers, so thanks for bringing that up. You did mention small sample, so I have to wonder how small, as KAT missed quite a few games and from memory did not share the court with Layman often. So was it vs. mostly starters? I would assume it was mostly opposing benches as well with KAT being kept on the floor to thwart a complete collapse. That has to be taken into consideration.

Either way, Juancho and Layman should both be bench PF and SF. We have no true PF, and have failed to find one to compliment him for too many years now. KAT is an outstanding player but it is obvious that the team needs someone to protect the back end, because he has so far proven he cannot. Oh, also someone to help him fricking rebound.

Juancho not rebounding well is a flat out myth. Vanderbilt has always been a rebounding monster.

Okay, we will see on Juancho. Vanderbilt is whatever at this point as he cannot shoot at all.

Honest question:

Do you think that we currently have anyone that really should be our starting PF? Or any team hunting for the playoffs?

I would rather have Okongwu and we could have if you believe the reports, but we chose Rubio over him. Tough call. I don't think Juancho sucks, but sure I'd rather have more. Vanderbilt and Layman can play there also and if you believe the hype Vanderbilt might be ready.

[winforlose]

Juancho not rebounding well is a flat out myth. Vanderbilt has always been a rebounding monster.

Okay, we will see on Juancho. Vanderbilt is whatever at this point as he cannot shoot at all.

Honest question:

Do you think that we currently have anyone that really should be our starting PF? Or any team hunting for the playoffs?

I would rather have Okongwu and we could have if you believe the reports, but we chose Rubio over him. Tough call. I don't think Juancho sucks, but sure I'd rather have more. Vanderbilt and Layman can play there also and if you believe the hype Vanderbilt might be ready.

It feels like Rosas wants to go full Houston sooner than later. I saw on hoopshype a comment about using Edwards at the 4 eventually. Personally I think it is a big enough stretch playing a 6-5 Josh Okogie at the 3. Yet a 6-5 Edwards playing the 4 could very well happen this season.

[Klomp]

I did not know that about the Juancho and Layman numbers, so thanks for bringing that up. You did mention small sample, so I have to wonder how small, as KAT missed quite a few games and from memory did not share the court with Layman often. So was it vs. mostly starters? I would assume it was mostly opposing benches as well with KAT being kept on the floor to thwart a complete collapse. That has to be taken into consideration.

About 200 minutes. He was also very positive with Russell. Towns and Hernangomez had similar net rating in obviously a much smaller sample size (37 minutes).

[KGdaBom]

Okay, we will see on Juancho. Vanderbilt is whatever at this point as he cannot shoot at all.

Honest question:

Do you think that we currently have anyone that really should be our starting PF? Or any team hunting for the playoffs?

I would rather have Okongwu and we could have if you believe the reports, but we chose Rubio over him. Tough call. I don't think Juancho sucks, but sure I'd rather have more. Vanderbilt and Layman can play there also and if you believe the hype Vanderbilt might be ready.

It feels like Rosas wants to go full Houston sooner than later. I saw on hoopshype a comment about using Edwards at the 4 eventually. Personally I think it is a big enough stretch playing a 6-5 Josh Okogie at the 3. Yet a 6-5 Edwards playing the 4 could very well happen this season.

I sure hope not, but he weighs about the same as the average PF.

[DaMplsKid]

Okay, we will see on Juancho. Vanderbilt is whatever at this point as he cannot shoot at all.

Honest question:

Do you think that we currently have anyone that really should be our starting PF? Or any team hunting for the playoffs?

I would rather have Okongwu and we could have if you believe the reports, but we chose Rubio over him. Tough call. I don't think Juancho sucks, but sure I'd rather have more. Vanderbilt and Layman can play there also and if you believe the hype Vanderbilt might be ready.

It feels like Rosas wants to go full Houston sooner than later. I saw on hoopshype a comment about using Edwards at the 4 eventually. Personally I think it is a big enough stretch playing a 6-5 Josh Okogie at the 3. Yet a 6-5 Edwards playing the 4 could very well happen this season.

We might go small in certain satiation with him at the PF but I personally was to see him at the 2/3 mostly. I am hoping his size can cause issues similar to LBJ and Zion at their positions. He should be able to punish most 1/2/3 in the league once he learns how to play in the NBA. I am hoping he becomes "a problem" for other team similar to Harder but more in a team scheme vs al the one on one harden does.

[Biff Cooper]

From last year:
Rosas puts his players into three different positional groups — point guards, wings and centers. So, power forwards need not apply?
“For us, positionally, it is a different game,” Rosas said on draft night. “We talked about where we’re at in the NBA now. You have four perimeters. Point guard, three wings and a big.”
Small ball could be the Wolves’ new norm, only it wouldn’t be all that small. Minnesota could trot out a starting lineup of Jeff Teague, Wiggins, Culver, Covington and Karl-Anthony Towns. Culver is listed at 6-foot-6, Wiggins is 6-8, Covington is 6-9.
Layman is also 6-9. Minnesota has length and athleticism in spades.
“It’s just the game is played differently now,” Rosas said. “We feel like our wings are versatile. Robert Covington is a guy that has the most success at the four offensively, and he’s a tough defensive guard that’s very active.
“For us to be able to put a group of wings like we’re going to be able to put on the floor at certain points this year gives us a lot of versatility, gives us some shooting. Gives us playmaking. That’s how we want to play. For us to be able to execute that vision, we have to be built differently.”
What exactly is that vision? Josh Okogie gave a hint as to what Minnesota might hope to do defensively. When discussing Culver, Okogie said the rookie will help with “how hard we’re gonna play, and how we want to switch everything defensively, and how kind of versatile and how dynamic we want to play defensively.”
https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/11/timberwolves-sound-committed-to-small-ball/

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

[KGdaBom]

From last year:
Rosas puts his players into three different positional groups — point guards, wings and centers. So, power forwards need not apply?
“For us, positionally, it is a different game,” Rosas said on draft night. “We talked about where we’re at in the NBA now. You have four perimeters. Point guard, three wings and a big.”
Small ball could be the Wolves’ new norm, only it wouldn’t be all that small. Minnesota could trot out a starting lineup of Jeff Teague, Wiggins, Culver, Covington and Karl-Anthony Towns. Culver is listed at 6-foot-6, Wiggins is 6-8, Covington is 6-9.
Layman is also 6-9. Minnesota has length and athleticism in spades.
“It’s just the game is played differently now,” Rosas said. “We feel like our wings are versatile. Robert Covington is a guy that has the most success at the four offensively, and he’s a tough defensive guard that’s very active.
“For us to be able to put a group of wings like we’re going to be able to put on the floor at certain points this year gives us a lot of versatility, gives us some shooting. Gives us playmaking. That’s how we want to play. For us to be able to execute that vision, we have to be built differently.”
What exactly is that vision? Josh Okogie gave a hint as to what Minnesota might hope to do defensively. When discussing Culver, Okogie said the rookie will help with “how hard we’re gonna play, and how we want to switch everything defensively, and how kind of versatile and how dynamic we want to play defensively.”
https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/11/timberwolves-sound-committed-to-small-ball/

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

This is a very good point. So okogie, culver, and edwards can all be on the floor with Rubio and Davis at the 1 and 5.

[raise_21_up]

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

Agree with this, however what happens if Kat misses some games again? We're going to run out a Reid/Hernangomez starting front court again? I brought up John Collins earlier, others on here have brought up Larry Nance; getting a player like this would help balance this team out in my opinion. Having a Collins/Hernangomez looks pretty good to me still if Kat misses some time. Whether Rosas wants to call the 4 postion a wing or a big makes no difference to me, but getting and upgrade here seems like the next step to filling out this roster and we've been trying to fill this spot since drafting Towns.

[Jedzz]

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

Agree with this, however what happens if Kat misses some games again? We're going to run out a Reid/Hernangomez starting front court again? I brought up John Collins earlier, others on here have brought up Larry Nance; getting a player like this would help balance this team out in my opinion. Having a Collins/Hernangomez looks pretty good to me still if Kat misses some time. Whether Rosas wants to call the 4 postion a wing or a big makes no difference to me, but getting and upgrade here seems like the next step to filling out this roster and we've been trying to fill this spot since drafting Towns.

Patton was suggested by others and was said to be available yesterday. Makes a world of sense to me. The guy does a bit of everything well and could backup PF and C with his size yet fit this Rosas/Ryan thing better then most. I might even move Layman's spot to fit him in if they don't plan on allowing him to play SF anyway. He would maybe come in just below the Collins number.

[raise_21_up]

Patton was suggested by others and was said to be available yesterday. Makes a world of sense to me. The guy does a bit of everything well and could backup PF and C with his size yet fit this Rosas/Ryan thing better then most. I might even move Layman's spot to fit him in if they don't plan on allowing him to play SF anyway. He would maybe come in just below the Collins number.

Patton would be a great signing and we might be able to get him as the second two-way contract. I wouldn't be expecting much out of him but he would at least provide some depth to the frontcourt. Layman is a guy i'm interested in watching this year, hopefully he can stay healthy so we can see how he might fit in with this squad.

[King Malta]

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

Agree with this, however what happens if Kat misses some games again? We're going to run out a Reid/Hernangomez starting front court again? I brought up John Collins earlier, others on here have brought up Larry Nance; getting a player like this would help balance this team out in my opinion. Having a Collins/Hernangomez looks pretty good to me still if Kat misses some time. Whether Rosas wants to call the 4 postion a wing or a big makes no difference to me, but getting and upgrade here seems like the next step to filling out this roster and we've been trying to fill this spot since drafting Towns.

Collins is going to get paid (probably wants a max) and plays absolutely no defense, he'd be a horrific defensive pairing with KAT.

I understand the points around KAT going down, but at the end of the day you're never really going to be able to replace a player of KAT's quality if they're injured, and bringing in a guy who's going to demand a max contract to prepare for that eventuality isn't the best use of resources IMO.

I agree that a Nance type would be the optimal starter next to KAT, if you believe the beat writers we were interested in Crowder and DJJ so I think we tried to fill that spot with someone of that ilk but it didn't come to pass.

[BrandyMcRoyFoye]

From last year:
Rosas puts his players into three different positional groups — point guards, wings and centers. So, power forwards need not apply?
“For us, positionally, it is a different game,” Rosas said on draft night. “We talked about where we’re at in the NBA now. You have four perimeters. Point guard, three wings and a big.”
Small ball could be the Wolves’ new norm, only it wouldn’t be all that small. Minnesota could trot out a starting lineup of Jeff Teague, Wiggins, Culver, Covington and Karl-Anthony Towns. Culver is listed at 6-foot-6, Wiggins is 6-8, Covington is 6-9.
Layman is also 6-9. Minnesota has length and athleticism in spades.
“It’s just the game is played differently now,” Rosas said. “We feel like our wings are versatile. Robert Covington is a guy that has the most success at the four offensively, and he’s a tough defensive guard that’s very active.
“For us to be able to put a group of wings like we’re going to be able to put on the floor at certain points this year gives us a lot of versatility, gives us some shooting. Gives us playmaking. That’s how we want to play. For us to be able to execute that vision, we have to be built differently.”
What exactly is that vision? Josh Okogie gave a hint as to what Minnesota might hope to do defensively. When discussing Culver, Okogie said the rookie will help with “how hard we’re gonna play, and how we want to switch everything defensively, and how kind of versatile and how dynamic we want to play defensively.”
https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/11/timberwolves-sound-committed-to-small-ball/

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

So Ed Davis and Reid are backing up Towns at Center. Don't expect to see many lineups with two of those guys sharing the floor. I have no problem following along with that. I wonder then, which of the three baskets is Rosas putting Hernangomez, Layman, and Vanderbilt in? "Tall" wings? That's fine if that's the label he wants to slap on them, and "positionless" basketball is a very fun buzzword to say. I get that the game has gone small and the likes of Charles Oakley and Larry Johnson typically aren't bullying their way around the block anymore. I also get that there might be occasions in the future where throwing Edwards out at the "4" with two of Beasley/Okogie/Culver at the other wings might work in a limited capacity against some teams. That said, I don't expect to ever ride that lineup to a championship.

All things being equal, height/size will always count for something in the game of basketball. If Rosas is making a decision to sacrifice length in his core rotation in the new NBA, that's fine, but that lineup better make up for it with superior athleticism, playmaking, ballhandling, and shooting.

Personally, I would still rather label guys like Hernangomez as power forwards or "stretch 4s". I don't see the point of putting a guy like that in the same basket as Okogie and Culver. Whatever you want to call Juancho/Layman/Vanderbilt, I don't think this team is ever going to be good until they find a "big wing" / "power forward" that can bring the perimeter game on offense that Rosas wants, while also offering some of toughness and versatility to defend and rebound down low. I have never been as high on the outlook of Towns the defender as when he was paired with old man Garnett in his rookie seasonl

[winforlose]

We need to either play bigger or rebound better with small ball. If we aren’t at least middle of the pack in rebounding our odds of making the playoffs are going way down.

[Nick K]

I think our depth chart will look something like:

Russell - Rubio - McLaughlin
Beasley - Edwards - Nowell
Culver - Okogie - McDaniels
Hernangomez - Layman - Vanderbilt
Towns - Davis - Reid

Culver, Okogie, Edwards could all be swapped around with each other on the depth chart.

I think our best lineup, strictly for winning will be:

Rubio
Russell
?
Davis
Towns

With one of Beasley, Edwards, Culver, Okogie, Layman, Hernangomez taking the last spot. Hopefully it is Edwards, and then Hernangomez can defend enough to over take Davis.

It will be interesting to see how much we prioritize winning vs development. It will definitely impact lineups.

The lineup I want to see is :
Ricky
D'lo
Edwards
Vanderbilt
Kitty
---------
2nd unit
Ricky
Beasley
Culver
Layman/Hernangomez
Davis/Reid
-------
I'm not big on Reid, Hernangomez or Okogie.

The great thing is we have so many mix and match parts.
Maybe Ricky comes off the bench and finishes late.

I can't wait to get started.

[Nick K]

A little more context for the Reid v Davis discussion. According to basketball-reference.com Davis has attempted exactly zero three pointers in 668 NBA games. Conversely, Reid shot 97 of them in 32 games.

All the more reason to Play Davis and not Reid. The last thing I need to see is Reid chucking up 3's all day. We need him to rebound and score inside.

I'd like to see Jordan Mc signed. I'm afraid Okogie is the man out. I would keep Culver at least one more year if not two unless we are absolutely certain he's a bust. He's not.

[Nick K]

A little more context for the Reid v Davis discussion. According to basketball-reference.com Davis has attempted exactly zero three pointers in 668 NBA games. Conversely, Reid shot 97 of them in 32 games.

I could be wrong but I don't know if Davis is really in their plans for playing much. I think his contract amount was more a less a tool for moving the other two players out. Has happened before, right? But I don't have much to go on with this. Just guessing.

Davis is the perfect piece for us. I wanted Okongwu so much as the perfect fit. Davis does that.

[Klomp]

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

Agree with this, however what happens if Kat misses some games again? We're going to run out a Reid/Hernangomez starting front court again? I brought up John Collins earlier, others on here have brought up Larry Nance; getting a player like this would help balance this team out in my opinion. Having a Collins/Hernangomez looks pretty good to me still if Kat misses some time. Whether Rosas wants to call the 4 postion a wing or a big makes no difference to me, but getting and upgrade here seems like the next step to filling out this roster and we've been trying to fill this spot since drafting Towns.

It does make a difference if you don't put a wing there. Collins isn't a wing.

[Klomp]

From last year:
Rosas puts his players into three different positional groups — point guards, wings and centers. So, power forwards need not apply?
“For us, positionally, it is a different game,” Rosas said on draft night. “We talked about where we’re at in the NBA now. You have four perimeters. Point guard, three wings and a big.”
Small ball could be the Wolves’ new norm, only it wouldn’t be all that small. Minnesota could trot out a starting lineup of Jeff Teague, Wiggins, Culver, Covington and Karl-Anthony Towns. Culver is listed at 6-foot-6, Wiggins is 6-8, Covington is 6-9.
Layman is also 6-9. Minnesota has length and athleticism in spades.
“It’s just the game is played differently now,” Rosas said. “We feel like our wings are versatile. Robert Covington is a guy that has the most success at the four offensively, and he’s a tough defensive guard that’s very active.
“For us to be able to put a group of wings like we’re going to be able to put on the floor at certain points this year gives us a lot of versatility, gives us some shooting. Gives us playmaking. That’s how we want to play. For us to be able to execute that vision, we have to be built differently.”
What exactly is that vision? Josh Okogie gave a hint as to what Minnesota might hope to do defensively. When discussing Culver, Okogie said the rookie will help with “how hard we’re gonna play, and how we want to switch everything defensively, and how kind of versatile and how dynamic we want to play defensively.”
https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/11/timberwolves-sound-committed-to-small-ball/

A lot of people on this thread are trying to put a PF in the lineup at all times. Whether or not that is what we should do, I fully expect quite a few minutes this season with 1 PG, 1 Big, and 3 Wings.

So Ed Davis and Reid are backing up Towns at Center. Don't expect to see many lineups with two of those guys sharing the floor. I have no problem following along with that. I wonder then, which of the three baskets is Rosas putting Hernangomez, Layman, and Vanderbilt in? "Tall" wings? That's fine if that's the label he wants to slap on them, and "positionless" basketball is a very fun buzzword to say. I get that the game has gone small and the likes of Charles Oakley and Larry Johnson typically aren't bullying their way around the block anymore. I also get that there might be occasions in the future where throwing Edwards out at the "4" with two of Beasley/Okogie/Culver at the other wings might work in a limited capacity against some teams. That said, I don't expect to ever ride that lineup to a championship.

All things being equal, height/size will always count for something in the game of basketball. If Rosas is making a decision to sacrifice length in his core rotation in the new NBA, that's fine, but that lineup better make up for it with superior athleticism, playmaking, ballhandling, and shooting.

Personally, I would still rather label guys like Hernangomez as power forwards or "stretch 4s". I don't see the point of putting a guy like that in the same basket as Okogie and Culver. Whatever you want to call Juancho/Layman/Vanderbilt, I don't think this team is ever going to be good until they find a "big wing" / "power forward" that can bring the perimeter game on offense that Rosas wants, while also offering some of toughness and versatility to defend and rebound down low. I have never been as high on the outlook of Towns the defender as when he was paired with old man Garnett in his rookie seasonl

While they're all wings, I think there's such a thing as "big wings." That puts the 4s usually in a slightly different category. Guys like Layman can be put in either category though.

[gandlogo]

A little more context for the Reid v Davis discussion. According to basketball-reference.com Davis has attempted exactly zero three pointers in 668 NBA games. Conversely, Reid shot 97 of them in 32 games.

I could be wrong but I don't know if Davis is really in their plans for playing much. I think his contract amount was more a less a tool for moving the other two players out. Has happened before, right? But I don't have much to go on with this. Just guessing.

Davis is the perfect piece for us. I wanted Okongwu so much as the perfect fit. Davis does that.

Maybe under Thibs, but not under Rosas. A player needs to excel on the perimeter full-time on both ends of the court under the current regime.

[Jedzz]

Patton was suggested by others and was said to be available yesterday. Makes a world of sense to me. The guy does a bit of everything well and could backup PF and C with his size yet fit this Rosas/Ryan thing better then most. I might even move Layman's spot to fit him in if they don't plan on allowing him to play SF anyway. He would maybe come in just below the Collins number.

Patton would be a great signing and we might be able to get him as the second two-way contract.

I give up. This team is followed by the worst fans of the nation. offense intended

A. he's 23 years old and three seasons in already.

B. 45 days rule makes their eligibility to play often inert, and causes them all kind of sillyness and stress getting sent up and down constantly. Basically keeping them from practicing or being with the team much because any day with the team counts against it. So they don't get into gameplans or learn much how to play tight with teammates.

C. Last season for the first time, because of the delayed season and restart, teams were allowed two way players into the bubble and playoffs,. But they had to be activated on the top 13 players active roster to play in a game. They could carry 17 players into the bubble but those two way players only played if elevated to the 13 active. In the past, if the player turns out to be a stud on the court and necessary for playoffs or to stop others from picking them up later, you would have to convert their deaL to at least a real NBA minimum contract. (something they could have done with JMac at anytime in the past year.)

D. Two way contracts suck. The players live on ketchup sandwiches.

E. Too many Wolves fans suck at player evals and seeing how pieces fit together. Sorry, true.

F. uck it. MN Nice has left the building.