Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0

[zimpy27]

...The guy can’t win either way.

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

Is he a good GM?

He had a playoff team that could add a ton of talent through a bottom teams draft picks. Instead of trading the picks for win now players or committing to a rebuild and getting great picks from other teams and own team tanking, he chose to both try to win the championship and add young talent.

I was harping on this 5 years ago. The decision had.to be one or the other and he chose the only way that wouldn't result in a championship.

[MoneyTalks41890]

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[aguiar95]

What other teams are holding out official deals? Dallas haven't signed any rookie and the Johnson trade is still not official. Could be nothing, but.....

[Buzzard]

What other teams are holding out official deals? Dallas haven't signed any rookie and the Johnson trade is still not official. Could be nothing, but.....

I don't see the Snell trade as being official yet on the Hawks end in listed transactions. But Detroit has released Dedmon. So I think Atlanta has competed all their trades. Looks like they have signed all their free agents and both rookies.

[zimpy27]

When is Giannis expected back to sign this extension?

[Buzzard]

When is Giannis expected back to sign this extension?

2021 SNT with the Hawks

[SmartWentCrazy]

...The guy can’t win either way.

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

You get the irony in that this is exactly what Pritchard is doing with this leak, right?

[SmartWentCrazy]

...The guy can’t win either way.

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

Is he a good GM?

He had a playoff team that could add a ton of talent through a bottom teams draft picks. Instead of trading the picks for win now players or committing to a rebuild and getting great picks from other teams and own team tanking, he chose to both try to win the championship and add young talent.

I was harping on this 5 years ago. The decision had.to be one or the other and he chose the only way that wouldn't result in a championship.

He’s made the ECFs 3 out of the last 4 years. If he’s not a good GM then there are only 3 or 4 good GMs in the league.

[Buzzard]

...The guy can’t win either way.

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

You get the irony in that this is exactly what Pritchard is doing with this leak, right?

I think the difference is Ainge gets his leaks out via unnamed sources. Pritchard is allowing himself to be quoted here.

The dust has settled and there is no deal to be made. So he let his cards out on the table about what they tried to accomplish. No harm no foul. Everything was already out there via unnamed sources the past two weeks.

[SmartWentCrazy]

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

You get the irony in that this is exactly what Pritchard is doing with this leak, right?

I think the difference is Ainge gets his leaks out via unnamed sources. Pritchard is allowing himself to be quoted here.

The dust has settled and there is no deal to be made. So he let his cards out on the table about what they tried to accomplish. No harm no foul. Everything was already out there via unnamed sources the past two weeks.

Thats just not even remotely true.

From the article:

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

[zimpy27]

For the record I've mostly been an Ainge defender. But the amount of we almost got player X, Y, and Z stuff that comes out is comical and definitely has ties to him.

I agree that their asset base in prior years made them a classic stalking horse for teams looking to move stars and some of that I'm sure was overblown. But if we just stick to stuff directly attributable to Ainge or known mouthpieces its a lot.

I think its fair to laugh at Ainge for that trend while recognizing that overall he's been a good GM.


And yes it does sound like this board valued Turner more than teams do. And undervalued Hayward--though I was clearly a guy who believed in his value still personally.

Is he a good GM?

He had a playoff team that could add a ton of talent through a bottom teams draft picks. Instead of trading the picks for win now players or committing to a rebuild and getting great picks from other teams and own team tanking, he chose to both try to win the championship and add young talent.

I was harping on this 5 years ago. The decision had.to be one or the other and he chose the only way that wouldn't result in a championship.

He’s made the ECFs 3 out of the last 4 years. If he’s not a good GM then there are only 3 or 4 good GMs in the league.

I think you're right.

My point is that they were in ECF 4 years ago before they got Hayward, Irving, Tatum. He had the team in position but couldn't pull the trigger to push them over the top.

But it's a great achievement to get them to that ECF level anyway.

So he is good, not top 5 though for me. Maybe top 10 right now?

[Buzzard]

You get the irony in that this is exactly what Pritchard is doing with this leak, right?

I think the difference is Ainge gets his leaks out via unnamed sources. Pritchard is allowing himself to be quoted here.

The dust has settled and there is no deal to be made. So he let his cards out on the table about what they tried to accomplish. No harm no foul. Everything was already out there via unnamed sources the past two weeks.

Thats just not even remotely true.

From the article:

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

Straight from the horses mouth. Note were Prtichard is quoted directly. I don't think Pritchard would allow himself to be quoted directly if not true. This is from a article in the Indy Star and directly quotes Pritchard.

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

“We pursued as hard as we possibly could,” Pacers president Kevin Pritchard said about Hayward via Zoom call with media Wednesday. “If you can add a player that materially improves you, you have to take a shot. ... It hurt a little bit more this time because the feedback was he wanted to be here. We were probably overpaying in the trade but we were willing to try to get a special player. It can't come at a cost that's so debilitating that it doesn't make sense."

The deal fell apart because the Pacers wouldn’t include a second starter instead of a bench player, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said. The Pacers didn’t have any cap space, so it was the only way to consummate the deal.

Celtics president Danny Ainge had his bluff called, but not by the Pacers. The Charlotte Hornets signed the deal to give Hayward $120 million over 4 years and then Ainge wanted to go back to Indiana to negotiate in “good faith” with Indiana.

It was Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, who pulled the plug on it. Hayward was heading to Charlotte.

Yes, you’re reading correctly: The #Pacers offer for Gordon Hayward included a 1st rd pick but Cs held out for another starter. More details

Insider: Pacers' offer for Gordon Hayward included 1st-round pick but Celtics wanted more
The walk back by the Celtics has begun over a botched negotiation that could've landed them Myles Turner, a rotation player and a pick. indystar.com

[SmartWentCrazy]

Is he a good GM?

He had a playoff team that could add a ton of talent through a bottom teams draft picks. Instead of trading the picks for win now players or committing to a rebuild and getting great picks from other teams and own team tanking, he chose to both try to win the championship and add young talent.

I was harping on this 5 years ago. The decision had.to be one or the other and he chose the only way that wouldn't result in a championship.

He’s made the ECFs 3 out of the last 4 years. If he’s not a good GM then there are only 3 or 4 good GMs in the league.

I think you're right.

My point is that they were in ECF 4 years ago before they got Hayward, Irving, Tatum. He had the team in position but couldn't pull the trigger to push them over the top.

But it's a great achievement to get them to that ECF level anyway.

So he is good, not top 5 though for me. Maybe top 10 right now?

I think he royally botched this negotiation. I have a fundamentally different view of Turner relative to Ainge. But, being fair, Ainge has gone against the grain before and been rewarded for that decision [Trading the Fultz pick, selecting Jaylen Brown]. We’ll see how this event plays out.

With that said, lets ease up on the rush to castigate someone’s skills as a GM when the foundation of the team is 22 and 24 years old. They went from rebuilding team that just traded aging stars to perennial ECF team in short order. Could he have been better? Absolutely. Has he done a good job as a GM? Its virtually impossible to argue elsewise IMO.

[zimpy27]

I think the difference is Ainge gets his leaks out via unnamed sources. Pritchard is allowing himself to be quoted here.

The dust has settled and there is no deal to be made. So he let his cards out on the table about what they tried to accomplish. No harm no foul. Everything was already out there via unnamed sources the past two weeks.

Thats just not even remotely true.

From the article:

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

Straight from the horses mouth. Note were Prtichard is quoted directly. I don't think Pritchard would allow himself to be quoted directly if not true. This is from a article in the Indy Star and directly quotes Pritchard.

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

“We pursued as hard as we possibly could,” Pacers president Kevin Pritchard said about Hayward via Zoom call with media Wednesday. “If you can add a player that materially improves you, you have to take a shot. ... It hurt a little bit more this time because the feedback was he wanted to be here. We were probably overpaying in the trade but we were willing to try to get a special player. It can't come at a cost that's so debilitating that it doesn't make sense."

The deal fell apart because the Pacers wouldn’t include a second starter instead of a bench player, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said. The Pacers didn’t have any cap space, so it was the only way to consummate the deal.

Celtics president Danny Ainge had his bluff called, but not by the Pacers. The Charlotte Hornets signed the deal to give Hayward $120 million over 4 years and then Ainge wanted to go back to Indiana to negotiate in “good faith” with Indiana.

It was Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, who pulled the plug on it. Hayward was heading to Charlotte.

Yes, you’re reading correctly: The #Pacers offer for Gordon Hayward included a 1st rd pick but Cs held out for another starter. More details

Insider: Pacers' offer for Gordon Hayward included 1st-round pick but Celtics wanted more
The walk back by the Celtics has begun over a botched negotiation that could've landed them Myles Turner, a rotation player and a pick. indystar.com

So is Myles and the rotation player gone? Or do they just have to chill while they know they got shopped?

[SmartWentCrazy]

I think the difference is Ainge gets his leaks out via unnamed sources. Pritchard is allowing himself to be quoted here.

The dust has settled and there is no deal to be made. So he let his cards out on the table about what they tried to accomplish. No harm no foul. Everything was already out there via unnamed sources the past two weeks.

Thats just not even remotely true.

From the article:

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

Straight from the horses mouth. Note were Prtichard is quoted directly. I don't think Pritchard would allow himself to be quoted directly if not true. This is from a article in the Indy Star and directly quotes Pritchard.

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

“We pursued as hard as we possibly could,” Pacers president Kevin Pritchard said about Hayward via Zoom call with media Wednesday. “If you can add a player that materially improves you, you have to take a shot. ... It hurt a little bit more this time because the feedback was he wanted to be here. We were probably overpaying in the trade but we were willing to try to get a special player. It can't come at a cost that's so debilitating that it doesn't make sense."

The deal fell apart because the Pacers wouldn’t include a second starter instead of a bench player, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said. The Pacers didn’t have any cap space, so it was the only way to consummate the deal.

Celtics president Danny Ainge had his bluff called, but not by the Pacers. The Charlotte Hornets signed the deal to give Hayward $120 million over 4 years and then Ainge wanted to go back to Indiana to negotiate in “good faith” with Indiana.

It was Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, who pulled the plug on it. Hayward was heading to Charlotte.

Yes, you’re reading correctly: The #Pacers offer for Gordon Hayward included a 1st rd pick but Cs held out for another starter. More details

Insider: Pacers' offer for Gordon Hayward included 1st-round pick but Celtics wanted more
The walk back by the Celtics has begun over a botched negotiation that could've landed them Myles Turner, a rotation player and a pick. indystar.com

I looked and couldnt see where Pritchard is quoted saying he offered a FRP. I also was able to see where unnamed sources said he did offer a FRP.

To help clarify, I bolded Pritchards quotes and I underlined the anonymous sources. Please let me know if I can be of further help.

[Buzzard]

Thats just not even remotely true.

From the article:

Straight from the horses mouth. Note were Prtichard is quoted directly. I don't think Pritchard would allow himself to be quoted directly if not true. This is from a article in the Indy Star and directly quotes Pritchard.

The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.

“We pursued as hard as we possibly could,” Pacers president Kevin Pritchard said about Hayward via Zoom call with media Wednesday. “If you can add a player that materially improves you, you have to take a shot. ... It hurt a little bit more this time because the feedback was he wanted to be here. We were probably overpaying in the trade but we were willing to try to get a special player. It can't come at a cost that's so debilitating that it doesn't make sense."

The deal fell apart because the Pacers wouldn’t include a second starter instead of a bench player, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said. The Pacers didn’t have any cap space, so it was the only way to consummate the deal.

Celtics president Danny Ainge had his bluff called, but not by the Pacers. The Charlotte Hornets signed the deal to give Hayward $120 million over 4 years and then Ainge wanted to go back to Indiana to negotiate in “good faith” with Indiana.

It was Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, who pulled the plug on it. Hayward was heading to Charlotte.

Yes, you’re reading correctly: The #Pacers offer for Gordon Hayward included a 1st rd pick but Cs held out for another starter. More details

Insider: Pacers' offer for Gordon Hayward included 1st-round pick but Celtics wanted more
The walk back by the Celtics has begun over a botched negotiation that could've landed them Myles Turner, a rotation player and a pick. indystar.com

So is Myles and the rotation player gone? Or do they just have to chill while they know they got shopped?

I would bet Pritchard talked to Myles once all these rumors started breaking. That is another thing about trade leaks. Hayward and Ainge were both aware of the trade. The leaks were no harm for them. Pritchard probably had to explain all this to his players. I don't doubt GMs remember things like this.

[Scoot McGroot]

Straight from the horses mouth. Note were Prtichard is quoted directly. I don't think Pritchard would allow himself to be quoted directly if not true. This is from a article in the Indy Star and directly quotes Pritchard.

So is Myles and the rotation player gone? Or do they just have to chill while they know they got shopped?

I would bet Pritchard talked to Myles once all these rumors started breaking. That is another thing about trade leaks. Hayward and Ainge were both aware of the trade. The leaks were no harm for them. Pritchard probably had to explain all this to his players. I don't doubt GMs remember things like this.

Pritchard has a policy that if anything gets serious, he notifies the players early out of respect for them and their families, rather than let them get blindsided on Twitter or on the practice court. It’s worked well in the past, and was something that he worked out via conversations with his locker room when he had Thad and Collison as the vet leaders here. He seems to think that players know they’re constantly talked about and appreciate the heads up and respect of being notified and kept abreast of the situation.

[Prospect Dong]

He’s made the ECFs 3 out of the last 4 years. If he’s not a good GM then there are only 3 or 4 good GMs in the league.

I think you're right.

My point is that they were in ECF 4 years ago before they got Hayward, Irving, Tatum. He had the team in position but couldn't pull the trigger to push them over the top.

But it's a great achievement to get them to that ECF level anyway.

So he is good, not top 5 though for me. Maybe top 10 right now?

I think he royally botched this negotiation. I have a fundamentally different view of Turner relative to Ainge. But, being fair, Ainge has gone against the grain before and been rewarded for that decision [Trading the Fultz pick, selecting Jaylen Brown]. We’ll see how this event plays out.

With that said, lets ease up on the rush to castigate someone’s skills as a GM when the foundation of the team is 22 and 24 years old. They went from rebuilding team that just traded aging stars to perennial ECF team in short order. Could he have been better? Absolutely. Has he done a good job as a GM? Its virtually impossible to argue elsewise IMO.

I don't think anyone reasonable claims Ainge hasn't done a good job overall. We can argue about whether he's just inside or just outside the top 5, but that's about the scope of the disagreement IMO.

He's hit some incredible home runs, and he drafts consistently above average given his picks, I'd say.

But I think his desire for home runs means he misses out on a lot of singles and doubles that seem to have been on the table, and that's maybe compounded by the fact that he thinks he can contend now while holding on to a ten+ year contender. And maybe he can, but it's a much riskier strategy than clearly deciding to go all-in, or deciding to wait on your young guys before peaking.

[kalenclayton]

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I can’t help but think that Kaminsky is a very meh player every time I see him. Can someone who watched him a lot tell me just how good/bad this guy is?

[Resistance]

Has Ainge denied the Indiana version of the negotiations?

In the past, there have been controlled leaks from the Celtics to frame a story favorably.

What have they leaked àbout this?