OT Bears 2019/20 season

[dougthonus]

Ok, explain Mike Davis and Trey Burton being cast offs here and productive members in their respective teams right now.

Mike Davis had 11 carries with the Bears, he just wasn't in the rotation enough to even comment about, Burton missed half the season and had the worst QB in the NFL throwing him the ball. That's what I mean by the talent is awful. You have guys whom are just pedestrian like these guys, replacement level guys, and once the talent around them is poor, they are worthless.

How did Cohen regress?
How did Howard regress and then get discarded (shelf life of RBs are short but still)?
How did Anthony Miller go from scoring 7 TDs as a rookie to more or less the same level today?
How did Mitch regress so bad?

Probably because Cohen is a gimick back, Howard is basically out of the league now after failing after the Bears, Miller dropped what 3 TDs that hit him in the hands this season already, and Mitch fell off the mark as soon as people realized he can run but can't throw and defended that.

Everyone looks worse because our offensive line has fallen off the map and so if our QB could be the 20th best guy in a perfect situation, in our situation he's complete garbage because he has no time to throw.

All these things come together to make an awful offense. If we had a dominant line, then low end QB/RBs might look okay, and the line was much better a couple seasons ago. If we had a dominant QB / RB, then we might be able to make up for some of these other problems, but we don't. We're average or worse everywhere on the field, and that brings down everyone on the field a couple levels because there's no where to go for an advantage.

Name one player Nagy has developed.

Kind of weird to think the head coach develops players. There's at least two layers between the head coach and any player on the roster

Head Coach -> Coordinators -> Position coaches

If you want to say all of our position coaches are crap because they can't develop anyone, maybe. I don't know anything about them, but none of the guys you named are particularly talented. They're all average to below in talent playing on a team that has no offensive line. If you think there's some recipe for offensive success here then be my guest, but I don't see it.

If the Bears are to find success its generally going to be a strong defensive effort, maybe 2 good drives a game by the offense along with a lot of poor ones, forcing turnovers, and playing well on special teams. That was the formula before the season started and remains so now.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Doug, you're probably typing a great reply right now but lets forget about where the blame lies on offense for a minute. We've just been flat out outcoached in games. There were plenty of times where I was like what is Nagy doing, he is just in over his head here. Do you not agree with that at least a little bit?

[dougthonus]

Doug, you're probably typing a great reply right now but lets forget about where the blame lies on offense for a minute. We've just been flat out outcoached in games. There were plenty of times where I was like what is Nagy doing, he is just in over his head here. Do you not agree with that at least a little bit?

I'm generally agnostic towards Nagy.

It wouldn't take much for me to believe we can do better, but I don't see coaching as being a primary reason why we're losing. We are mainly paying the cost of Pace's decision to go for it all a few years ago.

He did a lot of selling out of the future for the short term and put all his chips on Trubisky developing. When Trubisky failed, the Bears were left without a lot of good options. I didn't like Trubisky as a draft pick nor thought he was good enough to go all in on. For a year it worked out and I thought I might be wrong, but defenses adjusted and it turned out Trubisky couldn't make the improvements necessary.

Strategically, I don't think that was all poorly thought out. If he made the same gamble and Trubisky hit like MaHomes or Watson (or drafted one of those guys instead) then the Bears would have had a shot. I appreciate that he gambled on a window, but it didn't work, and the Bears are really kinda hosed because of it.

In that sense, I don't know that Pace is necessarily awful either. Our poor talent level now is the outcome of a gamble that had some good upside if it worked. Now we're just kind of eating it for a few years because it didn't.

In the end, I don't know that going into this year anything was going to be notably better one way or the other. This poor season is largely the outcome of decisions made in the past to blow up our salary and future picks. That now reflects poorly on everyone.

So I don't know if that answers your question. Do I think Nagy could be better? Sure. Probably. Do I think he's the biggest problem? Probably not. I'd say the problem is Pace's win now decisions which led to a poor roster 2 years after the 'now' which led to few options for our head coach to make an impact this season and left us with a poor roster.

To make a parallel towards the Bulls, if the Bulls have a lousy season this year (Which I think they will), then will Billy Donovan be a lousy coach? Well, probably not, we have real limits on what we can do with the talent we have and not a lot of avenues to improve that talent in the short run.

[Susan]

My ideal crazy dream world: Mitch starts and balls out, defense takes a step forward and starts scoring TDs and they weasel their way into the playoffs despite Nagy. We fire Nagy, have a franchise QB that we can keep and things keep growing here

Most likely: they win 2 more games, Mitch sucks, Nagy sucks, defense gets a couple injuries and regresses a lil and everybody is fired.

the fact that you even have the ability to fantasize about mitch trubisky turning into a franchise qb in 2020 is...astonishing

The NFL is a weird league my dude and what part of "ideal crazy dream world" makes you think that I'm by any means predicting or expecting that to happen?

And don't you think it would be less than ideal if Mitch went out and pulled a Tannehill after all of this bull? Most likely he is a Gabbert or Bortles but it would sting even worse if he started to play well elsewhere.

[dougthonus]

And don't you think it would be less than ideal if Mitch went out and pulled a Tannehill after all of this bull? Most likely he is a Gabbert or Bortles but it would sting even worse if he started to play well elsewhere.

There's a lot more Bortles than Tannehill's out there. Obviously any time you let a guy go, there is a chance he can go somewhere else and embarrass you, but if you've seen enough evaluation of him then you can be pretty confident he's not going to turn it around here.

I feel comfortable saying that even if Mitch goes on to have a good career elsewhere that his time in Chicago is done, and he wasn't going to have that type of outcome here.

I'd probably be more nervous that Mitch plays great for 4-5 games, we sign him to a big extension and then realize it is fool's gold in a year. That said, I agree the best case scenario is that Mitch plays amazing, we sign him, and he stays amazing. I just think there is a very limited possibility that happens.

In the same sense, I'm not sure why you'd root for Nagy to fail, and Mitch to prove he's amazing rather than to root for Nagy to be amazing the last 5 games and stay amazing.

[Jeffster81]

Trubisky is who he is....a crappy NFL QB. The chances of him "balling out" is virtually nil. If he does, I'd eat crow but I not going to be wrong about Trubisky. When is the last time you heard a QB bench in the middle of the season, then returns as starter and takes off? It does not happen.

Foles sucks, Trubisky sucks, Pace sucks, Nagy sucks and all four should be out of Chicago after the season.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Trubisky is who he is....a crappy NFL QB. The chances of him "balling out" is virtually nil. If he does, I'd eat crow but I not going to be wrong about Trubisky. When is the last time you heard a QB bench in the middle of the season, then returns as starter and takes off? It does not happen.

Foles sucks, Trubisky sucks, Pace sucks, Nagy sucks and all four should be out of Chicago after the season.

Way to go out on a limb lol.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Mitch will start Sunday. If nothing else, he’s more entertaining than Foles. So I’ll certainly tune in.

[dice]

I'd probably be more nervous that Mitch plays great for 4-5 games, we sign him to a big extension and then realize it is fool's gold in a year.

i cannot fathom a scenario in which trubisky gets a big extension. partly because his fate is intimately linked with that of pace. pace's contract is done after next season, so either he gets canned after THIS season (in which case trubisky heads out with him), or pace hangs on (in which case trubisky MIGHT get a short-term "prove it...finally?" contract

[bullsnewdynasty]

Trubisky should have never been benched.

Nagy wanted a reason to pull him and got trigger happy when he threw a bad pick in the Atlanta game.

Everybody knew that Foles wasn't the answer 2 or 3 games ago. Instead of admitting he was wrong, Nagy's arrogance got in the way.

[dice]

Mitch will start Sunday. If nothing else, he’s more entertaining than Foles. So I’ll certainly tune in.

definitely makes the game a tad more interesting. will this be the last we see of foles in a bears uniform?

[bullsnewdynasty]

And why do we keep assuming Nagy has had nothing to do with the players chosen for this roster? I think Nagy even liked Trubisky before he was drafted. He chose to come to this didn't he?

The Bears traded for Foles in large part because he already had a relationship with Nagy.

The idea that Pace just hands Nagy players without talking to him is ludicrous.

[nitetrain8603]

Trubisky should have never been benched.

Nagy wanted a reason to pull him and got trigger happy when he threw a bad pick in the Atlanta game.

Everybody knew that Foles wasn't the answer 2 or 3 games ago. Instead of admitting he was wrong, Nagy's arrogance got in the way.

Doug has summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'll jump on this. Trubisky did deserve to get benched. The problem is, the Bears didn't have a better alternative and no QB would be successful behind that line.

[Jeffster81]

Trubisky should have never been benched.

Nagy wanted a reason to pull him and got trigger happy when he threw a bad pick in the Atlanta game.

Everybody knew that Foles wasn't the answer 2 or 3 games ago. Instead of admitting he was wrong, Nagy's arrogance got in the way.

Despite the record, Mitch was BAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDD. He deserved to be benched. I would have benched him in favor of Tyler Bray, that's how bad he was.

I will only tolerate Foles return is if it is in a backup role behind the high drafted QB.

[patryk7754]

last week the play calling would have been great for mitch so i expect more of the same vs the Packers. Mitch should be the QB going forward. Mitch rightfully lost his job but foles did absolutely nothing to keep his spot and with his mobility, mitch gives the bears the best chance to win.

[Chi town]

We lose out or win one more game and the house gets cleaned and we get a QB. Pace has to go all due to the QB. He was wrong about Glennon, Mitch, and Foles and invested a lot of assets and money in all 3. LET THAT SINK IN... Pace will be fired for that.

New GM drafts a QB in an epic QB class with his first ick.

[dice]

We lose out or win one more game and the house gets cleaned and we get a QB. Pace has to go all due to the QB. He was wrong about Glennon, Mitch, and Foles and invested a lot of assets and money in all 3. LET THAT SINK IN... Pace will be fired for that.

New GM drafts a QB in an epic QB class with his first ick.

to be fair, glennon got a below average starting QB contract for a single bridge year and only got paid a roster bonus after being cut the following year. and while we gave up a 4th rounder, foles is playing for bargain basement money. i didn't like the move, but it wasn't egregious. the trubisky mistake was egregious. as was, i'd argue, the mack trade, though that one obviously pales in comparison to the trubisky fallout based on what we potentially missed out on

[thedarkstark]

Worst case scenario: Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace are here in 2021, literally nothing else that happens this season matters. If they're gone next year that's a win, hopefully Ted Phillips gets canned too.

[Dresden]

Bears would be best served to lose the rest of their games to hopefully be in a place to draft a QB for next year. I don't see how they fix that problem any other way.

[dice]

Bears would be best served to lose the rest of their games to hopefully be in a place to draft a QB for next year. I don't see how they fix that problem any other way.

they're not getting lawrence or fields regardless, and trask will probably be available wherever they end up in the order, so basically losing would potentially improve their shot at trey lance or zach wilson. the former basically hasn't played this year and the latter has been feasting on cupcakes in his first impressive season as a junior