How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade?

[Bigfactsstackz]

What's all this fuss about Ingram blood clots? He was healthy in last season, Ingram has had a successful thoracic decompression outlet surgery, correcting the structural issue (from Reddit). He is better than DeRozan. I think for Spurs it was a matter of pride - they didn't want to trade Leonard who quit on them to his preferred destination. But don't spin it like DeRozan is better than Ingram or that he is worth something. He should be lucky he played in the East and got those All Star Games appearances. In West DeRozan is irrelevant.

Okay i got a job for you .., prove to me Ingram is better

[DoctorX]

better than Derozan lol, Ingram already accomplished something DD could only fantasize bout, shot 40% from 3s oh yeah an all star in the west at 23, while DD wouldn't even sniff a skills contest invite

Yes great achievement by Ingram and he still couldn't lead his team to the playoffs which is the definition of an empty stat player.

This was ingram's 4th season, first 3 were on a circus Lakers team.
Derozan didn't make the playoffs till is 5th season and was never the best player on the team.

Honestly I'm not fan of either Derozan or Ingram.

[Johnny Tomala]

What's all this fuss about Ingram blood clots? He was healthy in last season, Ingram has had a successful thoracic decompression outlet surgery, correcting the structural issue (from Reddit). He is better than DeRozan. I think for Spurs it was a matter of pride - they didn't want to trade Leonard who quit on them to his preferred destination. But don't spin it like DeRozan is better than Ingram or that he is worth something. He should be lucky he played in the East and got those All Star Games appearances. In West DeRozan is irrelevant.

Okay i got a job for you .., prove to me Ingram is better

He already accomplished more than DeRozan in the NBA - All Star in the West >>>> all of DeRozan appearances in the East. Ingram is better 3pt shooter and simply the better player. All GMs in the league would take Ingram over DeRozan.

[EricAnderson]

Problem was outside of spiting the Lakers Pop didn’t want to be part of a rebuild he wanted proven veterans back in return.

It’s why they are probably gonna keep Derozan and Aldridge another season and go all in again for an 8th seed even though they should be rebuilding.

As long as Pop is there tearing it down and rebuilding isn’t gonna happen.

[EricAnderson]

One of the worst trades of the last 10 years...they traded a top 5 player and a good role player for an empty stats guy with a bad contract that put them in a treadmill situation. Sorry but adding Poetl and a late first round pick doesn't make that trade look any better.

Why not? The Spurs themselves are happy with the trade. What alternatives on the table were better given the All Star, prospect, pick parameters? DD's coming off the books, Jakob is very valuable defensively for us, and Keldon Johnson is the pick. He's going to be another one of those 'Damn it, Spurs got another one' players. The point here is that people are too quick to let the effects of a deal play out. It takes time to see what that pick can become, how Jakob can help, what we do with the cap space in 2021. These types of pronouncements don't come with viable alternatives given the reality of the parameters sought in the trade. So what do you suggest would have been better and why?

I think the LA deal was better simply because it was for just younger players and would have allowed SA to rebuild and get high picks for a few years and build through the draft.

Right now there a treadmill team who’s not good enough to go anywhere but not bad enough to get a real high pick in hopes of landing a franchise player to build around.

[_qubik]

Pop was five times right with the SAS, Buford and Popovich made the Spurs to be the most respected franchise in the league. Dont think people will care if he miss sometimes. Not helping your adversaries is wise, pretty simple, and no matter what the Lakers would win the trade, as much as they sended NOLA, AD is far more valuable, they won and AD probably will stay even after Lebron departure. In the end Pop stopped the Lakers from being scarier, with Kawhi via trade, AD would sign, and the roster could be even better this season. Pop is a monster even if he wins nothing else until the end of his remarkable carreer

[Sgt Major]

It's quite simple: "However, Gregg Popovich Rule Is Not to Help Teams Like Lakers"

[The_Hater]

They get a pass from me for not trading with the Lakers. Kawhi didn't deserve to be there after tanking his value and sabotaging the Spurs title hopes by sitting out a year and refusing to communicate with them.

Secondly the Lakers were not offering the same deal they were offering the Pelicans for Davis. I will also say I'm not amazed by Ingram. To me he is an empty stat player that can't win you games. There are plenty of them throughout the league. So I don't care about missing out on him.

Spur screwed up in my eyes not trading Kawhi during the trade deadline of 2018 when they could have gotten Tatum and Jaylen Brown for him. I have heard the Celtics offered both for him around January of 2018. That was a mistake by RC and Pop for not pursuing that trade.

Thirdly I don't get why Laker fans continue to complain about the Spurs not trading Kawhi to them. You just won a god damn title and are still complaining about not getting Kawhi. To me that's just ludicrous. What did you want a super team of Davis,Kawhi,Lebron?

even if you think that of Ingram, DD has proven he doesn't add to winning either and Ingram is exact type of player pop would've loved, goes bout his business with no drama or complaints, just a quite baller....

Ingram is an empy stat player in which the Spurs would have had the same results which is barely making the playoffs or being a lottery team. Let's see they could have had an empty stat Derozan and help the Raptors win a title or have empty stat Ingram and help the Lakers win a title. I still go for option A as painful as it was.

Ingram is what, 8-9 years younger than Derozan ? And this is really the argument you’re going with here?

The Spurs are a great organization but they made a bad trade, and that trade is going to negatively effect their rebuilding process the next couple of years. I have no idea why some fans feel the need to defend it like they were the ones that made the trade themselves.

[DoctorX]

even if you think that of Ingram, DD has proven he doesn't add to winning either and Ingram is exact type of player pop would've loved, goes bout his business with no drama or complaints, just a quite baller....

Ingram is an empy stat player in which the Spurs would have had the same results which is barely making the playoffs or being a lottery team. Let's see they could have had an empty stat Derozan and help the Raptors win a title or have empty stat Ingram and help the Lakers win a title. I still go for option A as painful as it was.

Ingram is what, 8-9 years younger than Derozan ? And this is really the argument you’re going with here?

The Spurs are a great organization but they made a bad trade, and that trade is going to negatively effect their rebuilding process the next couple of years. I have no idea why some fans feel the need to defend it like they were the ones that made the trade themselves.

Both are empty stat players. I didn't want Ingram long term and neither do I want Derozan. Derozan will be gone after this year and I'm cool with it.

[DoctorX]

Pop was five times right with the SAS, Buford and Popovich made the Spurs to be the most respected franchise in the league. Dont think people will care if he miss sometimes. Not helping your adversaries is wise, pretty simple, and no matter what the Lakers would win the trade, as much as they sended NOLA, AD is far more valuable, they won and AD probably will stay even after Lebron departure. In the end Pop stopped the Lakers from being scarier, with Kawhi via trade, AD would sign, and the roster could be even better this season. Pop is a monster even if he wins nothing else until the end of his remarkable carreer

Agreed. Unless NOLA wins a title with Ingram; the Davis trade will always go down as a rip off since the Lakers won a title with AD. The Lakers will also be in a position to steal another star in a few years when Lebron hangs up to pair with AD.

IF Pop had sent Kawhi to the Lakers they would have still managed to also get Davis. You would have had a Lakers super team of Kawhi,Lebron,Davis. This whole entire forum would have been in tears complaining "How could the Spurs have been so stupid to create a new Lakers dyansty." I think the outrage would be up there with the time KD was on the Warriors.

[The_Hater]

Ingram is an empy stat player in which the Spurs would have had the same results which is barely making the playoffs or being a lottery team. Let's see they could have had an empty stat Derozan and help the Raptors win a title or have empty stat Ingram and help the Lakers win a title. I still go for option A as painful as it was.

Ingram is what, 8-9 years younger than Derozan ? And this is really the argument you’re going with here?

The Spurs are a great organization but they made a bad trade, and that trade is going to negatively effect their rebuilding process the next couple of years. I have no idea why some fans feel the need to defend it like they were the ones that made the trade themselves.

Both are empty stat players. I didn't want Ingram long term and neither do I want Derozan. Derozan will be gone after this year and I'm cool with it.

I’m glad that you already know that a 22 year old who just jumped a couple of levels is going to be an empty stat player for the rest of his career. I’m sure he wouldn’t help the Spurs rebuild one bit. That makes complete sense.

So how many worthwhile players are there in the entire league? Like 6? 7? Everyone else is garbage?

[DoctorX]

Ingram is what, 8-9 years younger than Derozan ? And this is really the argument you’re going with here?

The Spurs are a great organization but they made a bad trade, and that trade is going to negatively effect their rebuilding process the next couple of years. I have no idea why some fans feel the need to defend it like they were the ones that made the trade themselves.

Both are empty stat players. I didn't want Ingram long term and neither do I want Derozan. Derozan will be gone after this year and I'm cool with it.

I’m glad that you already know that a 22 year old who just jumped a couple of levels is going to be an empty stat player for the rest of his career. I’m sure he wouldn’t help the Spurs rebuild one bit. That makes complete sense.

Yeah he pretty much won't since he's an empty stat player.

[celticfan42487]

It's true.

This was an incredibly selfish move by Gregg who just didn't want to tank so he decided to treadmill.

The owners should have forced his hand for the good of the franchise.

[The_Hater]

Both are empty stat players. I didn't want Ingram long term and neither do I want Derozan. Derozan will be gone after this year and I'm cool with it.

I’m glad that you already know that a 22 year old who just jumped a couple of levels is going to be an empty stat player for the rest of his career. I’m sure he wouldn’t help the Spurs rebuild one bit. That makes complete sense.

Yeah he pretty much won't since he's an empty stat player.

You’re quite the scout.....

[birdlives_ma]

jrue holiday gets 5 pick, kawhi leonard gets 1 pick. this is beyond ridiculous.

I mean... c'mon though. Markets fluctuate, and the amount of picks flying around the past 2 years is new territory.

[DoctorX]

I’m glad that you already know that a 22 year old who just jumped a couple of levels is going to be an empty stat player for the rest of his career. I’m sure he wouldn’t help the Spurs rebuild one bit. That makes complete sense.

Yeah he pretty much won't since he's an empty stat player.

You’re quite the scout.....

I tend to be great in fantasy leagues.

[KobeHas5Rings]

What's all this fuss about Ingram blood clots? He was healthy in last season, Ingram has had a successful thoracic decompression outlet surgery, correcting the structural issue (from Reddit). He is better than DeRozan. I think for Spurs it was a matter of pride - they didn't want to trade Leonard who quit on them to his preferred destination. But don't spin it like DeRozan is better than Ingram or that he is worth something. He should be lucky he played in the East and got those All Star Games appearances. In West DeRozan is irrelevant.

Okay i got a job for you .., prove to me Ingram is better

Last year's stats:

Ingram 23.8 pts, 6.1 rebs, 4.2 ast, 1 stl, .6 blks ---- 46.3 FG%, 2.4 made threes at 39.1% ---- 58.7 TS%

DeRozan 22.1 pts, 5.5 rebs, 5.6 ast, 1 stl, .3 blks --- 53.1 FG%, 0.1 made threes at 25.7% ---- 60.3 TS%


Statistically they were pretty similar last year. Except that Ingram is a good three point shooter and DeRozan doesn't shoot 3's at all. And DeRozan had a higher FG%.

The argument is that the Spurs (who had seemingly no chance at winning a Title in 2018 or now) should have embraced a rebuild.

In a rebuild scenario, Brandon Ingram is unequivocally better and more valuable than DeRozan.

Ingram is Age: 23-086d. DeRozan is Age: 31-112d

Ingram has a 7'3" wingspan. He hasn't even entered his prime yet. He has the potential to become an elite 2 way player.

There isn't a GM in the league that would take DeRozan over Ingram right now. If not just because of their massive age/potential difference.

DeRozan is already past his peak. The only argument you could possibly make in his favor vs. Ingram is that DeRozan might be (but still this isn't even definitive) more valuable for 1 more year or so for a contender who is on the precipice of a championship. E.g. a team like the Lakers or Bucks or Heat or Phila

But for the Spurs? DeRozan has basically no value because he's not getting any better and he's not taking them anywhere near a Title. And he's not going to get them much back in a trade either (compared to the young assets they could have gotten for Kawhi).

[Bornstellar]

Hopefully when Keldon Johnson blows up this season and becomes our next Kawhi people will remember we got him via the Kawhi trade and it won't look so bad

[Danny1616]

They get a pass because they have 5 championships and two decades of unbelievable management and decision-making.

They were able to win a championship with Duncan and Robinson and then continue the dynasty by drafting Parker and Ginobili late. When the big 3 started to decline they managed to snag Kawhi outside of the lottery and win another championship.

[jimmy keys]

One of the worst trades of the last 10 years...they traded a top 5 player and a good role player for an empty stats guy with a bad contract that put them in a treadmill situation. Sorry but adding Poetl and a late first round pick doesn't make that trade look any better.

Why not? The Spurs themselves are happy with the trade. What alternatives on the table were better given the All Star, prospect, pick parameters? DD's coming off the books, Jakob is very valuable defensively for us, and Keldon Johnson is the pick. He's going to be another one of those 'Damn it, Spurs got another one' players. The point here is that people are too quick to let the effects of a deal play out. It takes time to see what that pick can become, how Jakob can help, what we do with the cap space in 2021. These types of pronouncements don't come with viable alternatives given the reality of the parameters sought in the trade. So what do you suggest would have been better and why?

+ DeRozan opted in and who knows if they move him for additional assets or how they reallocate that cap space.