Who Actually Wants Julius Randle?

[Prospect Dong]

I actually think the Grizzlies could be a fit, but I'm really unsure about the value. JJJ is a rare big who can cover for a nonshooting non-rim-protector, but he's never going to be an elite volume scorer, or even an adequate rebounder, it looks like. So he and Randle cover for each others' weaknesses quite well, at least in theory.

Randle can play some small-ball 5, right?

Dieng's expiring for Randle straight up works fine. That gets NY off the second year of Randle's deal, and gets them a very good backup 5 who can shoot a bit from the outside. But I'm entirely unsure whether Memphis should be devoting $18m of next year's cap space to a positional dinosaur and/or how to compensate for the extra year...

I'm pretty sure Gorgui hates Thibs tho

A fair point.

[crazybranman360]

Not sure if this has been thrown out, but is Randle/DSJ for Rozier/Zeller logical for both sides?

[Knickfan1982]

A reason for New Orleans to do it.

That's hystertical.

Unless of course the option is lose Ingram for nothing or try to squeeze whatever picks they can get from the Knicks I see no reason for Nawlin's to consider this.

why would they lose him for nothing? he's a rfa

I am thinking in the extremely unlikely situation where A) he demands to leave B) goes out of his way to burn every bridge with the organization and C) demands he goes to the Knicks.

[Knickfan1982]

Not sure if this has been thrown out, but is Randle/DSJ for Rozier/Zeller logical for both sides?

I wouldn't be against this move.

[LightTheBeam]

Id give Buddy if it meant we resigned Bogdan.

[NoZoLakers]

That's hystertical.

Unless of course the option is lose Ingram for nothing or try to squeeze whatever picks they can get from the Knicks I see no reason for Nawlin's to consider this.

why would they lose him for nothing? he's a rfa

I am thinking in the extremely unlikely situation where A) he demands to leave B) goes out of his way to burn every bridge with the organization and C) demands he goes to the Knicks.

who would ever go route C n Ingram dont seem like that type of player, he'll take the $ and be done with it

[Knickfan1982]

why would they lose him for nothing? he's a rfa

I am thinking in the extremely unlikely situation where A) he demands to leave B) goes out of his way to burn every bridge with the organization and C) demands he goes to the Knicks.

who would ever go route C n Ingram dont seem like that type of player, he'll take the $ and be done with it

As I said...extremely unlikely.

[NYG]

I actually think the Grizzlies could be a fit, but I'm really unsure about the value. JJJ is a rare big who can cover for a nonshooting non-rim-protector, but he's never going to be an elite volume scorer, or even an adequate rebounder, it looks like. So he and Randle cover for each others' weaknesses quite well, at least in theory.

Randle can play some small-ball 5, right?

Dieng's expiring for Randle straight up works fine. That gets NY off the second year of Randle's deal, and gets them a very good backup 5 who can shoot a bit from the outside. But I'm entirely unsure whether Memphis should be devoting $18m of next year's cap space to a positional dinosaur and/or how to compensate for the extra year...

I'm pretty sure Gorgui hates Thibs tho

A fair point.

Julius Randle to Grizzlies
$45 Million Salary (or less) Player(s) X + Asset(s) to Knicks
Gorgui Dieng to Team X

??

[FutureKnicksGM]

Value for Batum?

He is just an expiring contract and probably is done in the NBA after his contract is done.


If you want to make this solely about basketball, then Randle has more value than Batum. Others are looking at more factors than being on a basketball court. Batum is used to being an afterthought on a team while Randle isn't.






If you want to make it just a head to head matchup of Randle versus Batum on a basketball court, then Randle wins. If other things are considred such as the possibility of moping and being a pain in the neck when having to give up the spotlight and/or minutes to his replacement (Toppin), then I have Batum with edge in those areas because he appears to have accepted that this is how it is. I don't have Randle so accepting of that reality.

Yep, normally when discussing a trade of basketball players, the ability to play basketball should come in to the equation. But maybe that is just me.

I might be very bold and suggest the team that has just signed a win now player to a max contract, may appreciate having someone coming back who can play basketball, instead of having $27 million of dead weight sitting on the books,

Randle is clearly closer to earning his contract in comparison.

I don't think i have seen a potential hypothetical (which has been completely a non-factor in Randle's first two stops where he was a 6th man), has been as highly valued over the ability to play basketball, and contracts in the millions of dollars.

Was it a mistake for MIN to have given up the pick they did for Rubio (will a guy who had the spotlight as a starting pg in the league for his entire career, be happy to come off the bench behind Russell and Edwards/Beasley)?

I don't think anyone's arguing that Randle isn't more useful than Batum strictly on the court, but that's a bar so low an ant could trip on it. But it's not like Randle is some stud either. He is who he's always been - a guy whose counting stats look nice because he eats up a lot of minutes and possessions, but ultimately not a guy who contributes to winning basketball in a big role. Maybe he could be Trez-lite if he took a bench role and focused on taking on second units, but even in that case he's making more in one year than the actual Trez is in two.

Batum at 1 year/$27M and off the books completely by 2021 vs. Randle at 1 year/$23M with $4M on the books for 2021 isn't some vast chasm of value difference. If you prefer Randle, I understand that. But it's not ridiculous to think a second or two might close the gap for a rebuilding team that just drafted an offense-minded PF 8th overall.

Disagree. 2nds for contract difference - fine. Randle is at worst a good 6th man, whereas Batum is 15th man at best. Your team just traded a future protected first for that level player in Oubre, while absorbing his contract for free (despite historic tax implications) whereas in this situation the Knicks are taking on more money to take on absolute dead weight.

[gswhoops]

Yep, normally when discussing a trade of basketball players, the ability to play basketball should come in to the equation. But maybe that is just me.

I might be very bold and suggest the team that has just signed a win now player to a max contract, may appreciate having someone coming back who can play basketball, instead of having $27 million of dead weight sitting on the books,

Randle is clearly closer to earning his contract in comparison.

I don't think i have seen a potential hypothetical (which has been completely a non-factor in Randle's first two stops where he was a 6th man), has been as highly valued over the ability to play basketball, and contracts in the millions of dollars.

Was it a mistake for MIN to have given up the pick they did for Rubio (will a guy who had the spotlight as a starting pg in the league for his entire career, be happy to come off the bench behind Russell and Edwards/Beasley)?

I don't think anyone's arguing that Randle isn't more useful than Batum strictly on the court, but that's a bar so low an ant could trip on it. But it's not like Randle is some stud either. He is who he's always been - a guy whose counting stats look nice because he eats up a lot of minutes and possessions, but ultimately not a guy who contributes to winning basketball in a big role. Maybe he could be Trez-lite if he took a bench role and focused on taking on second units, but even in that case he's making more in one year than the actual Trez is in two.

Batum at 1 year/$27M and off the books completely by 2021 vs. Randle at 1 year/$23M with $4M on the books for 2021 isn't some vast chasm of value difference. If you prefer Randle, I understand that. But it's not ridiculous to think a second or two might close the gap for a rebuilding team that just drafted an offense-minded PF 8th overall.

Disagree. 2nds for contract difference - fine. Randle is at worst a good 6th man, whereas Batum is 15th man at best. Your team just traded a future protected first for that level player in Oubre, while absorbing his contract for free (despite historic tax implications) whereas in this situation the Knicks are taking on more money to take on absolute dead weight.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Randle as a player then. I have Oubre as a clearly better player at a more valuable position.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Randle isn't more useful than Batum strictly on the court, but that's a bar so low an ant could trip on it. But it's not like Randle is some stud either. He is who he's always been - a guy whose counting stats look nice because he eats up a lot of minutes and possessions, but ultimately not a guy who contributes to winning basketball in a big role. Maybe he could be Trez-lite if he took a bench role and focused on taking on second units, but even in that case he's making more in one year than the actual Trez is in two.

Batum at 1 year/$27M and off the books completely by 2021 vs. Randle at 1 year/$23M with $4M on the books for 2021 isn't some vast chasm of value difference. If you prefer Randle, I understand that. But it's not ridiculous to think a second or two might close the gap for a rebuilding team that just drafted an offense-minded PF 8th overall.

Disagree. 2nds for contract difference - fine. Randle is at worst a good 6th man, whereas Batum is 15th man at best. Your team just traded a future protected first for that level player in Oubre, while absorbing his contract for free (despite historic tax implications) whereas in this situation the Knicks are taking on more money to take on absolute dead weight.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Randle as a player then. I have Oubre as a clearly better player at a more valuable position.

I'm not sure how you land there given:

BPM - Oubre -0.5, Randle -0.3
VORP - Oubre 0.7, Randle 0.9
RPM - Oubre -3.05, Randle -0.75

But yes, agree to disagree.

[MasterIchiro]

With TJ Warren out indefinitely, maybe the Pacers can fill in those points with Randle.