How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade?

[blackcosmos]

let's be real. Toronto's offer was better than the Lakers. Loul Deng is a 16 million deadweight.
Spurs' mistake was not getting the raptors to include Pascal or OG. So yes, in a sense they did blew the trade

[levon]

Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player like Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.

[levon]

Also Spurs fans, you don't get to frame this as the Laker fans being greedy when there's been multiple reports of Pop reaching out to other front offices and urging them not to make a deal with the Lakers. Let's just say very few Laker fans are lamenting Pop's career going out with a whimper in perpetual 9th seed fashion.

[Pharmcat]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

[Pablo Escobar]

Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player than Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.

Could you imagine Ingram being coached by Pop? dude would be even better honestly I think they blew the trade since they only got Derozan and Poetl back. Now if you include and OG or Siakam in the trade now we're talking.

[DoctorX]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

[DoctorX]

Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player than Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.

Could you imagine Ingram being coached by Pop? dude would be even better honestly I think they blew the trade since they only got Derozan and Poetl back. Now if you include and OG or Siakam in the trade now we're talking.

People overrate Pop too much in here. He's not some miracle worker that can turn guys into superstars. BI would have remained BI under his coaching. Much like Demar has remained Demar.

[xb3at band1tx]

Pop adding in Green in too and not requesting someone like OG back will never not be comedy

idk how anyone justifies taking DD over Ingram, BI just made his first all-star game as a 22 year old

[levon]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

I'll bite. You'd rather have Poetl and Derozan than BI and Ball/Hart now? The Deng contract was salary to make it match. I don't think the Lakers could've hit the salary requirements any other way. If you hated Deng, you couldn't have asked for more picks for taking him on, the way NO bent Magic over? There were reports that Pop wasn't even picking up the phone. Also, what would you have used that salary for? Like what was the opportunity cost there?

Are you going to acknowledge that there is an irrational bias from Pop here or not? You're free to still support your guy until the day you die, but I'm a little incredulous that you and Grey aren't even acknowledging that he wasn't going about this with a clear head.

[Leslie Forman]

Because the media loves sucking off the Spurs. They are everything that is good and holy about sports.

If it wasn't for miraculously winning the lottery two years where there was a clear and obvious stud at #1, there probably wouldn't be an NBA team in San Antonio right now.

[NoZoLakers]

let's be real. Toronto's offer was better than the Lakers. Loul Deng is a 16 million deadweight.
Spurs' mistake was not getting the raptors to include Pascal or OG. So yes, in a sense they did blew the trade

deng didnt have to be included, just like he wasnt included in the AD trade n DD is going to end uo leaving in FA so Spurs ended up with Potel n i guess this keldon Johnson guy who another mentioned as a kawahi 2.0

[xb3at band1tx]

also Magic Johnson was the Lakers president at the time, I'm not convinced he couldn't have gotten fleeced (or at least something of real value) when the pressure was on

pops accepting DD was the sign of end

[NoZoLakers]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

[DoctorX]

Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player like Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.

Spur fans don't deny they got ripped off in this deal. It's undeniable but for the 1 millionth time they were never going to get equal value back for Kawhi. They were no better deals out there considering Kawhi sabotaged his value by sitting out a year and also telling everybody he was going to sign with LA regardless. He only had 1 year left on his contract so no team was going to give up a star player for him. Now if he had 2 years left on his contract the Spurs could have gotten a lot more in return.

You want accuse spur fans being in their feelings about calling BI an empty stat player which I find ironic considering Laker fans are in their feelings about BI. Whenever someone criticizes BI they get ultra defensive. I guess you guys have to justify BI's value after the Lakers ripped off the Pelicans to somehow create the narrative that it was a fair deal.

[G R E Y]

Also Spurs fans, you don't get to frame this as the Laker fans being greedy when there's been multiple reports of Pop reaching out to other front offices and urging them not to make a deal with the Lakers. Let's just say very few Laker fans are lamenting Pop's career going out with a whimper in perpetual 9th seed fashion.

Pray tell, what were the Lakers' fortunes before LBJ decided to go there after your big name players left the game? And for how long? I'd say Spurs are faring far better in our transition period.

The Pau trade was fair game to rail against.

The AD trade was fair to give prudent advice about. NOP got a better package in waiting after following Pop's advice in doing so - it was sought and given and NOP benefited from it.

It's not about Pop's career, which again like others you're assigning an arbitrary end point to, but about how you navigate through the sweet years and the challenging years. If there's no system of values and guiding principles in place, you get perpetual mediocrity for years. We've missed the playoffs once in 22 years and have a young group more ready to take on bigger roles. With cap space coming up - read: no Deng. lol

Weird how this revisit has emerged after the DeMar to LAL rumours fizzled...

[DoctorX]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

I'm going to take Grey's word over yours when Grey stated Deng was included in it.

[levon]

Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player like Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.

Spur fans don't deny they got ripped off in this deal. It's undeniable but for the 1 millionth time they were never going to get equal value back for Kawhi. They were no better deals out there considering Kawhi sabotaged his value by sitting out a year and also telling everybody he was going to sign with LA regardless. He only had 1 year left on his contract so no team was going to give up a star player for him. Now if he had 2 years left on his contract the Spurs could have gotten a lot more in return.

You want accuse spur fans being in their feelings about calling BI an empty stat player which I find ironic considering Laker fans are in their feelings about BI. Whenever someone criticizes BI they get ultra defensive. I guess you guys have to justify BI's value after the Lakers ripped off the Pelicans to somehow create the narrative that it was a fair deal.

a) It's obvious you weren't going to get requisite value for a disgruntled superstar, but that deal is disproportionately poor even if you normalize by the discount for disgruntled superstars leaguewide. Also, it was entirely unclear what Kawhi was going to return as. It wasn't as cut-and-dry as AD.
b) The Paul George deal was basically the same as the Anthony Davis one, and this was without the public spectacle that AD put on, so I'm not entirely sure NO got "ripped off". And you can argue that BI is better than SGA, and you'd probably win that argument.
c) Derozan was a proven empty stats player that the Spurs held their nose on to bring in to keep them afloat in the Western conference for the last few years of Pop's tenure. You know how I know that? There is no other way to justify bringing in Derozan after multiple years of subpar playoff performances. He had absolutely zero long-term value. He wouldn't even shoot the most important shot in the game.

Simply put, who is more valuable today, Derozan or Brandon Ingram? Even if you hated Ingram's empty statsness, which would net you more on the market today?

[NoZoLakers]

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

I'm going to take Grey's word over yours when Grey stated Deng was included in it.

jim gray don't know jack n like i said deng wasnt part of ad trade so he didnt need to be included in Leonard trade either and 2ndly la wasnt going to include both ball n ingram because they wanted to preserve assets for AD as well

[G R E Y]

simple: people hate the lakers, so thats why they excuse it. but it was an inexcusable move to trade KL for that garbage package when LAL was offering the farm

They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

[DoctorX]

Because the media loves sucking off the Spurs. They are everything that is good and holy about sports.

If it wasn't for miraculously winning the lottery two years where there was a clear and obvious stud at #1, there probably wouldn't be an NBA team in San Antonio right now.

If that was true the media would have sided with the Spurs over Kawhi during the Spurs-Kawhi saga. That whole entire year Kawhi sat out they were siding with Kawhi simply because they wanted him in LA. They tore up the Spurs organization from '17-'19 and praised Kawhi. The media has never loved the Spurs. They started begrudgingly giving the Spurs respect after they had won 4 titles due to the Spurs being successful.