Nuggets - Potential FA Signing

[skywalker33]

I'm hearing KBD was waive so we could bring Bol onto the full time roster. Given that info, I'm OK with that choice, would rather have Bol than KBD but would've really like to keep him, even as a 2-way player.

[The Rebel]

I'm hearing KBD was waive so we could bring Bol onto the full time roster. Given that info, I'm OK with that choice, would rather have Bol than KBD but would've really like to keep him, even as a 2-way player.

Maybe KBD wanted to try to find another contract? The guy has potential, I just don't think he is a long term fit for what we need.

[skywalker33]

I'm hearing KBD was waive so we could bring Bol onto the full time roster. Given that info, I'm OK with that choice, would rather have Bol than KBD but would've really like to keep him, even as a 2-way player.

Maybe KBD wanted to try to find another contract? The guy has potential, I just don't think he is a long term fit for what we need.

I'd much rather the Nuggets keep Bol happy and waive KBD for the roster spot than keep me happy by keeping KBD and having Bol disgruntled....I'm selfless that way

[The Rebel]

Do you guys remember when the Jokic offense really took off? It was Murray and Harris taking turns running plays off of Jokic the other would spot up. Gallo would play in 1 corner on or off ball side, with Arthur or Chandler would be spotted up in the opposite corner. If that got cut off then the ball would kick to the shooter or Gallo/Chandler would go into an iso situation if there were too many just packing the paint. MPJ isn't a good enough ball handler really to be the ball handler on a lot of picks and rolls, but he is very good in iso situations and spotting up. Put him in the Gallo role, with Millsap spotting up, and the guards running the plays with Jokic. Bol is arguably a better passer than Plumlee and he is a much better shooter of course.

We were trying to run that offense a lot in the playoffs if you watched. The issue was the only guys who could run it were Murray and Harris and Jokic and our outside shooters could not hit ****. Murray and Jokic were literally good enough running 1 damn play over and over again throughout the 2nd half that nobody could stop it, but the Lakers figured it out and just played the passing lanes while having 3 guys guard Jokic and Murray.

Outside of Murray and Jokic the only one that could create their own shots were Morris and MPJ. We now have a bunch of ball handlers in the backcourt, with Campazzo, Hampton, and Howard we have added 3 of them, Murray, Barton, Morris, Dozier, and Harris all can create for themselves and play off the ball. We also added shooting, Hartenstein and Nnaji can both shoot from distance well enough for the pick and pop. Campazzo has a very good midrange shot. Howard and Whittington are both great shooters. Green was likely the best outside shooter they could afford this year and Millsap has obviously worked on his spot up shooting consider how well he did in the regular season. MPJ can spot up well and has the handles to iso when the matchup works, he can play the Gallo role. Barton can play as the ball handler or in the Gallo role off the bench. Hampton can easily develop into a ball handler on the pick and roll, an iso guy, or a spot up shooter. We have finally tried to build the right way around Jokic, Murray, and MPJ in an offense that fits them all.

It makes sense that Grant left, he doesn't want to be just the spot up shooter but he cannot be the ball handler on the pick and roll and MPJ and Barton are easily the better iso style players.

It also makes sense that we would sign Campazzo and Howard after drafting Hampton, we did not have the ball handlers.

Everybody who we brought in has the potential to be a good to great outside shooter, Craig and Plumlee could not shoot and killed the spacing.

[The Rebel]

We announced the Whittington signing, 2 way deal for a guy who put up 12.5/6.4/1.5 on over 48.4% shooting from 3 in the Euro cup last year. 18/9.6/2.6 on 41.5% shooting from 3 2 years ago in the Israeli league. All that while he is supposed to be a very good defender and at 6'8" can guard the swing guys. He could make a hell of a replacement for Craig if he can defend swingmen and shoot like that.

[NuggetsWY]

We announced the Whittington signing, 2 way deal for a guy who put up 12.5/6.4/1.5 on over 48.4% shooting from 3 in the Euro cup last year. 18/9.6/2.6 on 41.5% shooting from 3 2 years ago in the Israeli league. All that while he is supposed to be a very good defender and at 6'8" can guard the swing guys. He could make a hell of a replacement for Craig if he can defend swingmen and shoot like that.

He's got a 7' or so wingspan and is rather athletic - I like the signing. I'm surprised it's a two-way deal, but if he can live with it for a year and prove himself, he'd be a nice addition to our bench.

[THE J0KER]

We announced the Whittington signing, 2 way deal for a guy who put up 12.5/6.4/1.5 on over 48.4% shooting from 3 in the Euro cup last year. 18/9.6/2.6 on 41.5% shooting from 3 2 years ago in the Israeli league. All that while he is supposed to be a very good defender and at 6'8" can guard the swing guys. He could make a hell of a replacement for Craig if he can defend swingmen and shoot like that.

Note that Euro/FIBA 3-pt is not NBA 3-pt but NCAA/WNBA 3pt, but these numbers are still very good. I think Whittington is signed more because of FO frustration over Cancar lack of improvement in the 3pt area (key for him in this Nuggets system) than as a replacement for Craig which was guard-forward anyway, not PF.

[skywalker33]

The more I think about it, the happier I am Grant moved on to DET. I think he’s not worth $20M a year as a 4th or 5th option in this offense. I did like his versatility and defense, I’ll miss that but the GM in DET is proving to be another moron, hope they enjoy each other

[NuggetsWY]

The more I think about it, the happier I am Grant moved on to DET. I think he’s not worth $20M a year as a 4th or 5th option in this offense. I did like his versatility and defense, I’ll miss that but the GM in DET is proving to be another moron, hope they enjoy each other

I agree that he's probably not worth that; but I still would have liked him here. I know he wanted more minutes on a contender, but that's a lot of money to walk away from.

[The Rebel]

The more I think about it, the happier I am Grant moved on to DET. I think he’s not worth $20M a year as a 4th or 5th option in this offense. I did like his versatility and defense, I’ll miss that but the GM in DET is proving to be another moron, hope they enjoy each other

I agree that he's probably not worth that; but I still would have liked him here. I know he wanted more minutes on a contender, but that's a lot of money to walk away from.

It wasn't minutes he wanted, it was a bigger role. He doesn't want to be a spot up shooter, he thinks he can create for himself and be a scorer. If that is his priority than I don't want him for $10 million a year, he is another Barton with less iso game.

[skywalker33]

The more I think about it, the happier I am Grant moved on to DET. I think he’s not worth $20M a year as a 4th or 5th option in this offense. I did like his versatility and defense, I’ll miss that but the GM in DET is proving to be another moron, hope they enjoy each other

I agree that he's probably not worth that; but I still would have liked him here. I know he wanted more minutes on a contender, but that's a lot of money to walk away from.

Bur we offered the same money....just a bad decision on his part, wants to think he is Kahwi

[THE J0KER]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

[The Rebel]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

There are numerous reasons.

Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.

Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.

Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.

The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.

[Richard Miller]

Getting waived from a non-playoff team in the East doesn't exactly instill confidence

[NuggetsWY]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

There are numerous reasons.

Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.

Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.

Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.

The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.

Agreed - but I will add that I am not overly concerned with our SF depth. The NBA tends toward larger SFs and most of our PFs can slide into SF against some/most teams. If the other team has a smaller SF, Harris can play defense against them - but more important, Barton can play SF (against at least half of the teams).

[The Rebel]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

There are numerous reasons.

Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.

Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.

Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.

The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.

Agreed - but I will add that I am not overly concerned with our SF depth. The NBA tends toward larger SFs and most of our PFs can slide into SF against some/most teams. If the other team has a smaller SF, Harris can play defense against them - but more important, Barton can play SF (against at least half of the teams).

To me the problem is not so much man to man coverage but the help defense we need out of them. The forwards have to be quick enough to make it off the corners to the rim before the roll guy can get past Murray and get to the rim. Jokic is good at cutting off the drive and occasionally deflecting passes, but we need that last line of defense. While Grant was still struggling to do it at times, he had improved considerably by the end of the season. Millsap struggled all of last season to get there in time, and Green while is more athletic than today's Millsap he is not exactly the fastest guy on the court. Meaning it is going to be hard to count on the PF to get there in time.

That leaves a lot of pressure on the SF, MPJ showed he was athletic enough to do it last season, but he missed too many rotations and will have to improve tremendously. Barton is quick enough to get there, but with him being so undersized at SF he has a hard time stopping the alley-oop (which is 1 reason the Rockets always killed us with Capela).

Bol and Cancar should be able to do it, with Bol having so much length he can sag off the corner and get where he needs, and Cancar appears quick and tall enough, but odds are Barton is going to get the backup SF minutes. So I would take a taller better scoring SF or a better quicker PF. While I like Green and am fine with bringing back Millsap if for no other reason that loyalty, I would have preferred we signed Ibaka for the full MLE, even if we had to give him the 3rd year.

[Manolito]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

There are numerous reasons.

Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.

Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.

Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.

The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.

From my calculations we are 3-4M under the luxury tax, assuming Campazzo signed BAE. That gives Denver the margin to acquire a PF around 20M salary trading away Barton + Monte (even Cancar).

Another option might be using Grant´s TPE in PJ Tucker, but we would still need to dump Cancar +3M extra to avoid the tax

[Richard Miller]

I'd say the Nuggets are finished making moves for now (unless some all-star/borderline all-star player is available). Now need the season to start to be able to evaluate who is fitting, who is not.

[The Rebel]

Hornets will probably waive Nicolas Battum, and several playoff level teams are already interested despite it is just a rumor so far, but not Nuggets. Why?? Isn't good and cheap defensive SG specialist is profile which we need the most on our bench?

There are numerous reasons.

Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.

Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.

Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.

The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.

From my calculations we are 3-4M under the luxury tax, assuming Campazzo signed BAE. That gives Denver the margin to acquire a PF around 20M salary trading away Barton + Monte (even Cancar).

Another option might be using Grant´s TPE in PJ Tucker, but we would still need to dump Cancar +3M extra to avoid the tax

I finally had the chance to sit down and do the actual math (fanduel really should fix their sunday morning issues), and we are both off.

Based off Larry Coon's CBA FAQs and basketball reference, as well as the reported contracts offered but not yet reported as signed we are at

Jokic $28,542,009.00
Murray $27,285,000.00
Harris $19,610,714.00
Barton $13,920,000.00
Porter $3,550,800.00
Bol $2,058,240.00
Morris $1,663,861.00
Cancar $898,310.00
Millsap $10,000,000.00
Campazzo $3,623,000.00
Green $7,350,000.00
Hartenstein$1,678,854.00
Dozier $1,762,796.00
Nnaji $2,379,840.00
Hampton $2,193,480.00
$126,516,904.00
Luxury tax $(132,627,000.00)
Room under tax $6,110,096.00

Those numbers include the $500K bonus for the 2nd round that both Jokic and Harris get, and the typical 120% that almost all rookie contracts actually pay out to their players.

Of course that is not including Harris's incentives for games available and total minutes played, which could add another million for the salary cap. So by my math (which could still be off) we could theoretically spend about $5 million more before the luxury tax becomes a huge concern.

[The Rebel]

I'd say the Nuggets are finished making moves for now (unless some all-star/borderline all-star player is available). Now need the season to start to be available to evaluate who is fitting, who is not.

I think if the right deal comes along we will do it right now, but overall I agree that the front office is happy with where they are at and want to see training camp before doing much else.