Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[316Hornets]

I am upset about the Waive and Stretch, but how many additional wins do you think Hayward gives us vs what we would of gotten without him?

I think LaMelo will be the biggest beneficiary from having Hayward here. Hopefully, it allows him to make some smarter decisions instead of forcing things. Hayward should help us get around 6 more wins if he can stay healthy.

[yosemiteben]

I am upset about the Waive and Stretch, but how many additional wins do you think Hayward gives us vs what we would of gotten without him?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

[SWedd523]

If the SRP consideration is 50/55 protected then it’s better than nothing. It sucks giving a jerk like DAinge a TPE but if the picks are 2023+ then it’s worth more because of the high schoolers who qualify for the draft.

There was no way Ainge was taking Batum so it was this or nothing.

That kind of rings hollow when draft picks can simply be bought for much less than $4.5mil

And the two outcomes were

A. Waiving Batum, Boston gets nothing
B. Waving Batum, Boston gets a massive TPE and Charlotte gets trash seconds

They somehow managed to massively lose a trade they didn't even need to make in the first place. It's like MJ/Mitch went out of their way to give Ainge the hookup

[JMAC3]

I am upset about the Waive and Stretch, but how many additional wins do you think Hayward gives us vs what we would of gotten without him?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

I am not sure yet. Win Shares is an estimate of number wins a player contributed last year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ws

Hayward was worth 5.7 wins last year, his last year in Utah he was 10.4 win shares (15th best in NBA).

[LakersSoul]

If the SRP consideration is 50/55 protected then it’s better than nothing. It sucks giving a jerk like DAinge a TPE but if the picks are 2023+ then it’s worth more because of the high schoolers who qualify for the draft.

There was no way Ainge was taking Batum so it was this or nothing.

That kind of rings hollow when draft picks can simply be bought for much less than $4.5mil

And the two outcomes were

A. Waiving Batum, Boston gets nothing
B. Waving Batum, Boston gets a massive TPE and Charlotte gets trash seconds

They somehow managed to massively lose a trade they didn't even need to make in the first place. It's like MJ/Mitch went out of their way to give Ainge the hookup

So option A is better? Better to not get 2 STPs than give Ainge the TPE?

[SWedd523]

...well yeah

Do you think the largest TPE in league history is worth more than two late second rounders?

I do

[SMTBSI]

This was always going to be the outcome. Guarantee we had our portion of it worked out days ago, and were just waiting to see if you could make any magic happen about Batum.

Stealing each other's stars in consecutive years notwithstanding, all signs point to our front offices actually having a decent working relationship. Both voluntarily helped the other to recover some value afterwards, and didn't ask for much in return.

I think fans have a very different approach to these things than GMs, and are much more willing to spite each other's teams. GMs need to keep the relationships functioning.

[SMTBSI]

Anyway, I'm definitely calling a resurgent year for Hayward with you. He looked 99% of the way back at times this year, and was clearly just deferring. Should have the opportunity to fully showcase this year.

[JMAC3]

...well yeah
Do you think the largest TPE in league history is worth more than two late second rounders?
I do

It was a tough spot to assign value to. 75% of Trade exceptions never get used. They really could not give up a first in trade, because they cant combine the TPE with another player.

Meaning whoever they traded the TPE for most likely that would of meant them trading 2 firsts for that player (1 for TPE and for actual trade later).

[Soul Rebel]

If the SRP consideration is 50/55 protected then it’s better than nothing. It sucks giving a jerk like DAinge a TPE but if the picks are 2023+ then it’s worth more because of the high schoolers who qualify for the draft.

There was no way Ainge was taking Batum so it was this or nothing.

That kind of rings hollow when draft picks can simply be bought for much less than $4.5mil

And the two outcomes were

A. Waiving Batum, Boston gets nothing
B. Waving Batum, Boston gets a massive TPE and Charlotte gets trash seconds

They somehow managed to massively lose a trade they didn't even need to make in the first place. It's like MJ/Mitch went out of their way to give Ainge the hookup

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks about the trade like this. We had all the leverage over Ainge and helped them get a massive TPE while we have to suck up the Batum cap hit over 3 years.

I'm not saying BOS would have taken Batum, but I just don't understand why we didn't leave BOS out of it and just sign GH. We netted one second round pick out of it and BOS gets a ridiculously large TPE.

[luciano-davidwesley]

If the SRP consideration is 50/55 protected then it’s better than nothing. It sucks giving a jerk like DAinge a TPE but if the picks are 2023+ then it’s worth more because of the high schoolers who qualify for the draft.

There was no way Ainge was taking Batum so it was this or nothing.

That kind of rings hollow when draft picks can simply be bought for much less than $4.5mil

And the two outcomes were

A. Waiving Batum, Boston gets nothing
B. Waving Batum, Boston gets a massive TPE and Charlotte gets trash seconds

They somehow managed to massively lose a trade they didn't even need to make in the first place. It's like MJ/Mitch went out of their way to give Ainge the hookup

So option A is better? Better to not get 2 STPs than give Ainge the TPE?

Yes we literally got nothing

[luciano-davidwesley]

This was always going to be the outcome. Guarantee we had our portion of it worked out days ago, and were just waiting to see if you could make any magic happen about Batum.

Stealing each other's stars in consecutive years notwithstanding, all signs point to our front offices actually having a decent working relationship. Both voluntarily helped the other to recover some value afterwards, and didn't ask for much in return.

I think fans have a very different approach to these things than GMs, and are much more willing to spite each other's teams. GMs need to keep the relationships functioning.

The relationship of Charlotte getting bent over by Boston? Boston is just fortunate Charlotte is being run by incompetent fools.

[LakersSoul]

That kind of rings hollow when draft picks can simply be bought for much less than $4.5mil

And the two outcomes were

A. Waiving Batum, Boston gets nothing
B. Waving Batum, Boston gets a massive TPE and Charlotte gets trash seconds

They somehow managed to massively lose a trade they didn't even need to make in the first place. It's like MJ/Mitch went out of their way to give Ainge the hookup

So option A is better? Better to not get 2 STPs than give Ainge the TPE?

Yes we literally got nothing

You might not like the heavy money Hayward signing but leveraging a s&t with Boston to get a FRP was not the primary goal of the FO to sign Hayward. It was a side dish and as much as some Hornet fans don’t like handing DAinge this gift, the Hornets are not battling Boston for anything in the next 3 years.

There is a good chance Boston doesn’t even use it, who knows. The Boston fans only wanted to give a SRP so there is some disagreement between the two fans.

[JMAC3]

If anything the team to be wondering about what they wanted was OKC. Clearly Boston gave us two firsts to toss into Batum dump, we probably offered them a third second and young player like McDaniels or Martin.

They must of been wanting a first round pick and we said no.

[Rich4114]

Wait, so some of you would rather just sign Hayward than sign Hayward and get two future second round picks just to spite Boston so they can’t have a massive trade exception that is highly unlikely to be used?

[BlackOutBuzz]

Read on Twitter

What a weird structure. So he gets the full 5% raises between years 1 and 2 & 3 and 4, but the middle years are effectively flat.

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[Braggins]

Read on Twitter

What a weird structure. So he gets the full 5% raises between years 1 and 2 & 3 and 4, but the middle years are effectively flat.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

Is it just me, or does it make absolutely no sense to not front load his deal?

[316Hornets]

Wait, so some of you would rather just sign Hayward than sign Hayward and get two future second round picks just to spite Boston so they can’t have a massive trade exception that is highly unlikely to be used?

I'd say it's highly likely they do use the TPE, not necessarily all of it but some for sure. They are capped out and it's the only way they'll be able to add talent. I think they are still 1 or 2 pieces away from being contenders.

My biggest gripe is I think we could've squeezed more out of them. I'd rather show them we mean business than accept picks that will likely never materialize into anything. How often does a guy drafted 50+ see any meaningful minutes?

[BlackOutBuzz]

Read on Twitter

What a weird structure. So he gets the full 5% raises between years 1 and 2 & 3 and 4, but the middle years are effectively flat.

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Is it just me, or does it make absolutely no sense to not front load his deal?

I was certainly hoping for it, and Boston could've gotten a larger TPE had that happened. I have to imagine this was a sticking point for Gordon. I was hopeful after the Rozier contract, but most players just don't wanna make less money as they get older.

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[BigSlam]

Read on Twitter

What a weird structure. So he gets the full 5% raises between years 1 and 2 & 3 and 4, but the middle years are effectively flat.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

Is it just me, or does it make absolutely no sense to not front load his deal?

It might to Charlotte, but not to Gordo.

Accepting the terms to a contract are a 2 way street after all.