Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

What a weird structure. So he gets the full 5% raises between years 1 and 2 & 3 and 4, but the middle years are effectively flat.

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Is it just me, or does it make absolutely no sense to not front load his deal?

It might to Charlotte, but not to Gordo.

Accepting the terms to a contract are a 2 way street after all.

I was certainly hoping for it, and Boston could've gotten a larger TPE had that happened. I have to imagine this was a sticking point for Gordon. I was hopeful after the Rozier contract, but most players just don't wanna make less money as they get older.

I wouldn't have thought it mattered that much to Hayward. Its the same money either way and Hayward seems like a guy that is probably very smart with his money. I'd assume that the vast majority of his salary is going directly into savings accounts or long term investments.

[Bassman]

Wow, just kinda shocked by this...but then again not.

I will say the Hornets finally have someone who could be/should be a go-to shooter/scorer.

What does our lineup look like relative to projected starters and minutes?

[JMAC3]

Wait, so some of you would rather just sign Hayward than sign Hayward and get two future second round picks just to spite Boston so they can’t have a massive trade exception that is highly unlikely to be used?

I'd say it's highly likely they do use the TPE, not necessarily all of it but some for sure. They are capped out and it's the only way they'll be able to add talent. I think they are still 1 or 2 pieces away from being contenders.

My biggest gripe is I think we could've squeezed more out of them. I'd rather show them we mean business than accept picks that will likely never materialize into anything. How often does a guy drafted 50+ see any meaningful minutes?

To be honest I am not mad what we got from Boston because realistically they were not giving up a first in that trade, I am more mad we couldn't turn those two seconds and our assets into dumping Batum. OKC probably demanded a first to take on Batum.

[luciano-davidwesley]

This whole thing has just been a massive dumpster fire. We could not have played this free agency much worse if we tried.

[JMAC3]

This whole thing has just been a massive dumpster fire. We could not have played this free agency much worse if we tried.

Yeah I get where most are coming from, but at least we actually paid a guy who is guaranteed to start for us for next 4 years. I think a bunch of guys who signed for the 60-80 million dollar deals are going to be coming off the bench if not from day 1, very soon.

Out of Bogdanovic, Beasley, Galo, Jerami Grant, Marcus Morris, Bertans - would be surprised if 3 of them starters opening day next year and they all signed for 3 years... so they a bunch will be backups for 2-3 years.

[SMTBSI]

This was always going to be the outcome. Guarantee we had our portion of it worked out days ago, and were just waiting to see if you could make any magic happen about Batum.

Stealing each other's stars in consecutive years notwithstanding, all signs point to our front offices actually having a decent working relationship. Both voluntarily helped the other to recover some value afterwards, and didn't ask for much in return.

I think fans have a very different approach to these things than GMs, and are much more willing to spite each other's teams. GMs need to keep the relationships functioning.

The relationship of Charlotte getting bent over by Boston? Boston is just fortunate Charlotte is being run by incompetent fools.

What happened made perfect sense to me. Was calling it all week.

First of all, this was a rarity in sports negotiation in that it was not a zero-sum game. Boston had something to gain, but you had nothing to lose. Giving us the TPE cost you absolutely nothing. The value that was going to be paid was the lowest value that you would not actually walk away from in favor of getting nothing.

Secondly, we voluntarily helped you recoup some value after we snagged Kemba. That came in the form of Rozier, but also could have been a $16mil TPE, if you had preferred that instead of Rozier. You preferred Rozier. The price we asked for that was a single 2nd swap that moved us up from #56 to #47 in the 2020 draft.

In a very similar situation, we just payed you about four times that much for this TPE. If anything, you came out on top of the two negotiations.

You certainly did not get "bent over". Your GM behaved rationally, got something for nothing, and repayed a favor. Our front offices should be on good terms after all this.

[JMAC3]

This was always going to be the outcome. Guarantee we had our portion of it worked out days ago, and were just waiting to see if you could make any magic happen about Batum.

Stealing each other's stars in consecutive years notwithstanding, all signs point to our front offices actually having a decent working relationship. Both voluntarily helped the other to recover some value afterwards, and didn't ask for much in return.

I think fans have a very different approach to these things than GMs, and are much more willing to spite each other's teams. GMs need to keep the relationships functioning.

The relationship of Charlotte getting bent over by Boston? Boston is just fortunate Charlotte is being run by incompetent fools.

What happened made perfect sense to me. Was calling it all week.

First of all, this was a rarity in sports negotiation in that it was not a zero-sum game. Boston had something to gain, but you had nothing to lose. Giving us the TPE cost you absolutely nothing. The value that was going to be paid was the lowest value that you would not actually walk away from in favor of getting nothing.

Secondly, we voluntarily helped you recoup some value after we snagged Kemba. That came in the form of Rozier, but also could have been a $16mil TPE, if you had preferred that instead of Rozier. You preferred Rozier. The price we asked for that was a single 2nd swap that moved us up from #56 to #47 in the 2020 draft.

In a very similar situation, we just payed you about four times that much for this TPE. If anything, you came out on top of the two negotiations.

You certainly did not get "bent over". Your GM behaved rationally, got something for nothing, and repayed a favor. Our front offices should be on good terms after all this.

Okay man, thanks for the explanation. Good luck this season, we will hop over to the Celtics board if we have any more questions for you.

[SMTBSI]

The relationship of Charlotte getting bent over by Boston? Boston is just fortunate Charlotte is being run by incompetent fools.

What happened made perfect sense to me. Was calling it all week.

First of all, this was a rarity in sports negotiation in that it was not a zero-sum game. Boston had something to gain, but you had nothing to lose. Giving us the TPE cost you absolutely nothing. The value that was going to be paid was the lowest value that you would not actually walk away from in favor of getting nothing.

Secondly, we voluntarily helped you recoup some value after we snagged Kemba. That came in the form of Rozier, but also could have been a $16mil TPE, if you had preferred that instead of Rozier. You preferred Rozier. The price we asked for that was a single 2nd swap that moved us up from #56 to #47 in the 2020 draft.

In a very similar situation, we just payed you about four times that much for this TPE. If anything, you came out on top of the two negotiations.

You certainly did not get "bent over". Your GM behaved rationally, got something for nothing, and repayed a favor. Our front offices should be on good terms after all this.

Okay man, thanks for the explanation. Good luck this season, we will hop over to the Celtics board if we have any more questions for you.

All right, I'll take off. Not trying to rub salt in wounds. I'm just genuinely a bit baffled by how both your fanbase and mine viewed this negotiation.

Good luck to you too. I do think Hayward is going to ball this year.

[vtime]

I was curious why no one ever mentions that Rozier and Hayward were together in Boston

[wilson115]

I would have walked away without helping Boston if they wouldn't include at least a late first. Seeing as though we are stretching Batum regardless what we got back in this deal is nearly worthless. Giving them 30 million TPE for two almost worthless late seconds. I guarantee Ainge would have given up a first if we called his bluff but Kupcake is a weak negotiator.

If he doesn't bite who cares because we are stretching Batum anyway and the two late seconds are pretty much garbage. Why help Ainge for nearly free?

Could've used that first to move Nic's contract. Thought avoiding the cap hit was the whole point. Incomprehensible.

[JMAC3]

I would have walked away without helping Boston if they wouldn't include at least a late first. Seeing as though we are stretching Batum regardless what we got back in this deal is nearly worthless. Giving them 30 million TPE for two almost worthless late seconds. I guarantee Ainge would have given up a first if we called his bluff but Kupcake is a weak negotiator.

If he doesn't bite who cares because we are stretching Batum anyway and the two late seconds are pretty much garbage. Why help Ainge for nearly free?

Could've used that first to move Nic's contract. Thought avoiding the cap hit was the whole point. Incomprehensible.

There is no way they are giving up a first for the TPE. For one they may not even end up using it (75% of them expire). Secondly if they give up a first to get the TPE what are they going to attach to the TPE when they go to use it? Another first?

Maybe if Boston had an extra first laying around, but with them only owning their own firsts it was never happening.

Sucks we could not get a third team involved, but again no way Boston was giving us a first in this scenario.

[wilson115]

I would have walked away without helping Boston if they wouldn't include at least a late first. Seeing as though we are stretching Batum regardless what we got back in this deal is nearly worthless. Giving them 30 million TPE for two almost worthless late seconds. I guarantee Ainge would have given up a first if we called his bluff but Kupcake is a weak negotiator.

If he doesn't bite who cares because we are stretching Batum anyway and the two late seconds are pretty much garbage. Why help Ainge for nearly free?

Could've used that first to move Nic's contract. Thought avoiding the cap hit was the whole point. Incomprehensible.

There is no way they are giving up a first for the TPE. For one they may not even end up using it (75% of them expire). Secondly if they give up a first to get the TPE what are they going to attach to the TPE when they go to use it? Another first?

Maybe if Boston had an extra first laying around, but with them only owning their own firsts it was never happening.

Sucks we could not get a third team involved, but again no way Boston was giving us a first in this scenario.

Then there was no incentive to hand Ainge his TPE at all.

[JMAC3]

Could've used that first to move Nic's contract. Thought avoiding the cap hit was the whole point. Incomprehensible.

There is no way they are giving up a first for the TPE. For one they may not even end up using it (75% of them expire). Secondly if they give up a first to get the TPE what are they going to attach to the TPE when they go to use it? Another first?

Maybe if Boston had an extra first laying around, but with them only owning their own firsts it was never happening.

Sucks we could not get a third team involved, but again no way Boston was giving us a first in this scenario.

Then there was no incentive to hand Ainge his TPE at all.

Yeah I get it, it is never bad to have a couple extra second rounders. Cavs traded a couple expiring contracts and a second round pick for Drummond last season.

Also, with 9 million in cap space maybe we accept a bad contract for a few more seconds like everyone has been campaigning for.

[-Ian-]

I'm curious to see how Mitch will spin this acquisition since this move has MJ's handprint. Stretching Nic's contract makes me sick. For Mitch and MJ's sake, they should pray to all the gods that this move won't blow up to their faces.

[luciano-davidwesley]

This was always going to be the outcome. Guarantee we had our portion of it worked out days ago, and were just waiting to see if you could make any magic happen about Batum.

Stealing each other's stars in consecutive years notwithstanding, all signs point to our front offices actually having a decent working relationship. Both voluntarily helped the other to recover some value afterwards, and didn't ask for much in return.

I think fans have a very different approach to these things than GMs, and are much more willing to spite each other's teams. GMs need to keep the relationships functioning.

The relationship of Charlotte getting bent over by Boston? Boston is just fortunate Charlotte is being run by incompetent fools.

What happened made perfect sense to me. Was calling it all week.

First of all, this was a rarity in sports negotiation in that it was not a zero-sum game. Boston had something to gain, but you had nothing to lose. Giving us the TPE cost you absolutely nothing. The value that was going to be paid was the lowest value that you would not actually walk away from in favor of getting nothing.

Secondly, we voluntarily helped you recoup some value after we snagged Kemba. That came in the form of Rozier, but also could have been a $16mil TPE, if you had preferred that instead of Rozier. You preferred Rozier. The price we asked for that was a single 2nd swap that moved us up from #56 to #47 in the 2020 draft.

In a very similar situation, we just payed you about four times that much for this TPE. If anything, you came out on top of the two negotiations.

You certainly did not get "bent over". Your GM behaved rationally, got something for nothing, and repayed a favor. Our front offices should be on good terms after all this.

If Kupcake was behaving rationally he would have left Boston to negotiate with Indiana and kept a wide berth of the train wreck he has just created.

The two late seconds are worthless and do nothing to repair any of the damage this sign and trade and stretch will do to this team over the next 4-5 years.

[Braggins]

At least the front office managed to unite the forum by making sure no one was happy about how the Hayward thing turned out.

[BeesWax]

There is no way they are giving up a first for the TPE. For one they may not even end up using it (75% of them expire). Secondly if they give up a first to get the TPE what are they going to attach to the TPE when they go to use it? Another first?

Maybe if Boston had an extra first laying around, but with them only owning their own firsts it was never happening.

Sucks we could not get a third team involved, but again no way Boston was giving us a first in this scenario.

Then there was no incentive to hand Ainge his TPE at all.

Yeah I get it, it is never bad to have a couple extra second rounders. Cavs traded a couple expiring contracts and a second round pick for Drummond last season.

Also, with 9 million in cap space maybe we accept a bad contract for a few more seconds like everyone has been campaigning for.

Once we had to waive Batum there was almost zero incentive to trade with Boston. We should have walked away and given them nothing. What we got was not worth the help we gave them. We were idiots to sign this guy in the first place and now we attached an extra 9 million a year to his awful contract because it is responsible for Batum lasting three years not one.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Now confirmed:

CHA 2022 2nd pick to Boston (top 55 protected)
BOS 2023 2nd pick to Charlotte
BOS 2024 2nd pick to Charlotte

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[Snidely FC]

was thinking how much fun was going to be to see the Martin Twins and Jalen McDaniels swirl around Lamelo
i guess MJ & Kupchak think fans would rather see Hayward chuffing

[Hornet Mania]

was thinking how much fun was going to be to see the Martin Twins and Jalen McDaniels swirl around Lamelo
i guess MJ & Kupchak think fans would rather see Hayward chuffing

You never know, he might get hurt again and then we can watch our young talent get minutes by default while the team takes a massive cap hit