OT: COVID-19 thread #4

[Shill]

There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

I think you are obscuring the bigger problem by deliberately taking people’s words out of context and making claims without sources.

Nobody thinks China is a benevolent actor or trusts their state-distributed information. This is one of the reasons we had medical experts stationed in China, so we didn’t have to rely completely on their information. At the same time, our leaders have continually lied to us about this virus and actually pitted states against each other to procure PPE.

China is going to do what they do, that has nothing to do with how our government has responded over the past 10 months. The obsessive focus on it is bizarre, almost like it’s meant to distract from our own government’s inept response. Let’s control the virus and save some lives, then we can squabble about what China did or didn’t know.

And I could argue the opposite.

I haven't been here for the duration of the discussion, but one thread that I saw being discussed was how to prevent another coronavirus coming out of China, which then morphed into the failure of U.S. policy and random governors, something that's been scrutinized ad nauseam in every news outlet for months.

Two things can be true at once.

Even if the U.S. handled things expertly, we're still talking about over 1 million dead worldwide.

Did every other country but China fail?

[Dresden]

No, we're comparing cruise ship passengers, infected with Covid, not being allowed on shore in order to get the medical treatment they need, because we a) couldn't figure out what to do with them, and b) possibly also because Trump didn't want to have to count their numbers, to China wanting to minimize their Covid numbers for political purposes (which you had alluded to).

So quarantining cruise ship passengers is analogous to renditioning journalists?

There are plenty of other examples of the US taking measures to hide or artificially lower their numbers, too- look at what happened in Florida, when the woman who was in charge of keeping the count was fired because her method of counting was proving too embarrassing for De Santis.

There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

What is the bigger problem though? Both China and the US were slow to react, and not fully transparent as to the scope and danger of the pandemic initially. The difference is, China quickly changed course while the US still is sending mixed messages about things like wearing masks, or staying at home, and as a result, we have over 270K deaths, whereas China has only 5K. So I don't know how much blame you can place on China.

My point throughout the last 5 pages or so of this thread is that we tend to demonize our enemies, and that does nothing to help prevent future problems. As a reference, there is this, which sounds very similar to some of the stories we hear about China these days (such as the one you posted about China welding people into their homes to let them die):

"The Nayirah testimony was a false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 by a 15-year-old girl who provided only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح‎) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.[1][2]

In her emotional testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die.

Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British NGO, which published several independent reports about the killings[3] and testimony from evacuees. Following the liberation of Kuwait, reporters were given access to the country. An ABC report found that "patients, including premature babies, did die, when many of Kuwait's nurses and doctors ... fled" but Iraqi troops "almost certainly had not stolen hospital incubators and left hundreds of Kuwaiti babies to die."[4][5] Amnesty International reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement".[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

[Dresden]

This is kind of a cool website that calculates your risk of catching Covid from being in a room with someone who is infected. You can adjust variables such as size of the room, ventilation, duration of exposure, number of people, etc. Developed at MIT.

https://indoor-covid-safety.herokuapp.com

[Shill]

No, we're comparing cruise ship passengers, infected with Covid, not being allowed on shore in order to get the medical treatment they need, because we a) couldn't figure out what to do with them, and b) possibly also because Trump didn't want to have to count their numbers, to China wanting to minimize their Covid numbers for political purposes (which you had alluded to).

So quarantining cruise ship passengers is analogous to renditioning journalists?

There are plenty of other examples of the US taking measures to hide or artificially lower their numbers, too- look at what happened in Florida, when the woman who was in charge of keeping the count was fired because her method of counting was proving too embarrassing for De Santis.

There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

What is the bigger problem though? Both China and the US were slow to react, and not fully transparent as to the scope and danger of the pandemic initially. The difference is, China quickly changed course while the US still is sending mixed messages about things like wearing masks, or staying at home, and as a result, we have over 270K deaths, whereas China has only 5K. So I don't know how much blame you can place on China.

My point throughout the last 5 pages or so of this thread is that we tend to demonize our enemies, and that does nothing to help prevent future problems. As a reference, there is this, which sounds very similar to some of the stories we hear about China these days (such as the one you posted about China welding people into their homes to let them die):

"The Nayirah testimony was a false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 by a 15-year-old girl who provided only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح‎) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.[1][2]

In her emotional testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die.

Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British NGO, which published several independent reports about the killings[3] and testimony from evacuees. Following the liberation of Kuwait, reporters were given access to the country. An ABC report found that "patients, including premature babies, did die, when many of Kuwait's nurses and doctors ... fled" but Iraqi troops "almost certainly had not stolen hospital incubators and left hundreds of Kuwaiti babies to die."[4][5] Amnesty International reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement".[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

There's a lot going on here.

First of all, you don't see how China is to blame for a virus that originated in China and became a global pandemic? That's likely the root of the disconnect here.

Second, I'm not sure what Gulf War propaganda has to do with the discussion. I'm no fan of either Bush and wars of aggression.

Third, I'm not a big fan of the corporate press that pushes the war propaganda, either.

This seems like a distraction.

It would be like me pivoting to China's one-child policy or Maoist struggle sessions.

[Dresden]

So quarantining cruise ship passengers is analogous to renditioning journalists?





There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

What is the bigger problem though? Both China and the US were slow to react, and not fully transparent as to the scope and danger of the pandemic initially. The difference is, China quickly changed course while the US still is sending mixed messages about things like wearing masks, or staying at home, and as a result, we have over 270K deaths, whereas China has only 5K. So I don't know how much blame you can place on China.

My point throughout the last 5 pages or so of this thread is that we tend to demonize our enemies, and that does nothing to help prevent future problems. As a reference, there is this, which sounds very similar to some of the stories we hear about China these days (such as the one you posted about China welding people into their homes to let them die):

"The Nayirah testimony was a false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 by a 15-year-old girl who provided only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح‎) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.[1][2]

In her emotional testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die.

Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British NGO, which published several independent reports about the killings[3] and testimony from evacuees. Following the liberation of Kuwait, reporters were given access to the country. An ABC report found that "patients, including premature babies, did die, when many of Kuwait's nurses and doctors ... fled" but Iraqi troops "almost certainly had not stolen hospital incubators and left hundreds of Kuwaiti babies to die."[4][5] Amnesty International reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement".[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

There's a lot going on here.

First of all, you don't see how China is to blame for a virus that originated in China and became a global pandemic? That's likely the root of the disconnect here.

Second, I'm not sure what Gulf War propaganda has to do with the discussion. I'm no fan of either Bush and wars of aggression.

Third, I'm not a big fan of the corporate press that pushes the war propaganda, either.

This seems like a distraction.

It would be like me pivoting to China's one-child policy or Maoist struggle sessions.

No, it wouldn't. Because what I'm talking about is propaganda that demonizes an unfriendly nation. And at least some of the links you posted appear to be just that.

I wouldn't "blame" China for the pandemic, no, anymore than you can blame Uganda for an Ebola outbreak. It just happened to originate there. Could they have done more to prevent it's spread, or been more transparent early on? Absolutely. No question about it.

And on the subject of what can be done to prevent future outbreaks, when I mentioned reinvigorating our scientific cooperation with China, you replied by calling China "a black box" (whatever that means), which I don't think is either accurate or helpful in terms of policy making going forward.

[jnrjr79]

There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

I think you are obscuring the bigger problem by deliberately taking people’s words out of context and making claims without sources.

Nobody thinks China is a benevolent actor or trusts their state-distributed information. This is one of the reasons we had medical experts stationed in China, so we didn’t have to rely completely on their information. At the same time, our leaders have continually lied to us about this virus and actually pitted states against each other to procure PPE.

China is going to do what they do, that has nothing to do with how our government has responded over the past 10 months. The obsessive focus on it is bizarre, almost like it’s meant to distract from our own government’s inept response. Let’s control the virus and save some lives, then we can squabble about what China did or didn’t know.

And I could argue the opposite.

I haven't been here for the duration of the discussion, but one thread that I saw being discussed was how to prevent another coronavirus coming out of China, which then morphed into the failure of U.S. policy and random governors, something that's been scrutinized ad nauseam in every news outlet for months.

Two things can be true at once.

Even if the U.S. handled things expertly, we're still talking about over 1 million dead worldwide.

Did every other country but China fail?

No! Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia, South Korea, Vietnam, etc.

Two things can be true:

1) China is culpable for the spread of COVID throughout the globe for allowing wet markets which were already known to be a risk for this sort of thing and for not being fully candid about the problem once discovered.

2) If your own country's health policies aimed at protecting its citizens relied on the idea that China or other global adversaries would be candid with you, you're hopelessly naive and have failed.

Plenty of blame to go around.

[DuckIII]

There are also stories of people inflating COVID numbers and people who died in car accidents and shootings being counted as COVID deaths.

There are one-off stories in every direction (that may or may not be true), but that obscures from the bigger problem.

I think you are obscuring the bigger problem by deliberately taking people’s words out of context and making claims without sources.

Nobody thinks China is a benevolent actor or trusts their state-distributed information. This is one of the reasons we had medical experts stationed in China, so we didn’t have to rely completely on their information. At the same time, our leaders have continually lied to us about this virus and actually pitted states against each other to procure PPE.

China is going to do what they do, that has nothing to do with how our government has responded over the past 10 months. The obsessive focus on it is bizarre, almost like it’s meant to distract from our own government’s inept response. Let’s control the virus and save some lives, then we can squabble about what China did or didn’t know.

And I could argue the opposite.

Not credibly. Almost zero Americans have an incentive to give China a free pass, so there is no reason to “distract” from whatever their role was.

But the fact remains that whatever happened is over, and what is still happening here is of the utmost immediate importance. By all means the international community should investigate and take appropriate action if warranted. But it’s a separate issue.

[Shill]

I think you are obscuring the bigger problem by deliberately taking people’s words out of context and making claims without sources.

Nobody thinks China is a benevolent actor or trusts their state-distributed information. This is one of the reasons we had medical experts stationed in China, so we didn’t have to rely completely on their information. At the same time, our leaders have continually lied to us about this virus and actually pitted states against each other to procure PPE.

China is going to do what they do, that has nothing to do with how our government has responded over the past 10 months. The obsessive focus on it is bizarre, almost like it’s meant to distract from our own government’s inept response. Let’s control the virus and save some lives, then we can squabble about what China did or didn’t know.

And I could argue the opposite.

Not credibly. Almost zero Americans have an incentive to give China a free pass, so there is no reason to “distract” from whatever their role was.

But the fact remains that whatever happened is over, and what is still happening here is of the utmost immediate importance. By all means the international community should investigate and take appropriate action if warranted. But it’s a separate issue.

That was the issue being discussed, at least that was the prompt that I responded to.

[moorhosj]

And I could argue the opposite.

You could argue anything you'd like, as you've proven in this discussion, but that doesn't prove there is merit.

Did every other country but China fail?

Not at all. That's why so many people in this thread have brought up examples of other well-developed, representative democracies performing far better than the US on their response to COVID.

Mitch McConnell is refusing to provide more relief to Americans, right now. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-stimulus-update-senators-to-unveil-relief-bill.html

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a new bipartisan $908 billion stimulus plan put forward in an effort to break the legislative stalemate as the coronavirus surges throughout the country.

Meanwhile, in functioning democracies, citizens are getting support. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55139229

Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy. It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

[Shill]

And I could argue the opposite.

You could argue anything you'd like, as you've proven in this discussion, but that doesn't prove there is merit.

Did every other country but China fail?

Not at all. That's why so many people in this thread have brought up examples of other well-developed, representative democracies performing far better than the US on their response to COVID.

Mitch McConnell is refusing to provide more relief to Americans, right now. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-stimulus-update-senators-to-unveil-relief-bill.html

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a new bipartisan $908 billion stimulus plan put forward in an effort to break the legislative stalemate as the coronavirus surges throughout the country.

Meanwhile, in functioning democracies, citizens are getting support. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55139229

Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy. It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

If you want to argue partisan U.S. policy, knock yourself out.

I’m not particularly interested in that topic.

I was simply discussing China’s role and future safeguards against another potential virus coming out of China.

[Jimako10]

And I could argue the opposite.

You could argue anything you'd like, as you've proven in this discussion, but that doesn't prove there is merit.

Did every other country but China fail?

Not at all. That's why so many people in this thread have brought up examples of other well-developed, representative democracies performing far better than the US on their response to COVID.

Mitch McConnell is refusing to provide more relief to Americans, right now. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-stimulus-update-senators-to-unveil-relief-bill.html

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a new bipartisan $908 billion stimulus plan put forward in an effort to break the legislative stalemate as the coronavirus surges throughout the country.

Meanwhile, in functioning democracies, citizens are getting support. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55139229

Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy. It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

If you want to argue partisan U.S. policy, knock yourself out.

I’m not particularly interested in that topic.

I was simply discussing China’s role and future safeguards against another potential virus coming out of China.

And what if the next one originates in the US? The 1918 flu pandemic likely originated in Kansas. Are we going to respond the way we did with this one?

Viruses are going to evolve and pop up no matter what, and can come from anywhere in the world. Our response and our own safeguards are what need to be discussed.

[dice]

US likely to hit the 100K mark in current COVID-19 hospitalizations tomorrow

[Shill]

And what if the next one originates in the US? The 1918 flu pandemic likely originated in Kansas. Are we going to respond the way we did with this one?

Viruses are going to evolve and pop up no matter what, and can come from anywhere in the world. Our response and our own safeguards are what need to be discussed.

If the next global pandemic originates in the United States, I'd hope we don't arrest doctors and journalists and purposefully sit on information while it spreads.

There has been ample discussion on America's response.

Someone asked a question about China and how to mitigate or prevent something like this happening again considering the country has been a hotspot for infectious diseases in recent memory.

I don't know why that discussion keeps getting pivoted back to America when there are over 1 million dead around the globe.

I feel like there's enough bandwidth for both discussions.

Nevertheless, I'm tapping out.

I doubt I have anything more to add to the topic.

[jmajew]

And I could argue the opposite.

You could argue anything you'd like, as you've proven in this discussion, but that doesn't prove there is merit.

Did every other country but China fail?

Not at all. That's why so many people in this thread have brought up examples of other well-developed, representative democracies performing far better than the US on their response to COVID.

Mitch McConnell is refusing to provide more relief to Americans, right now. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-stimulus-update-senators-to-unveil-relief-bill.html

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a new bipartisan $908 billion stimulus plan put forward in an effort to break the legislative stalemate as the coronavirus surges throughout the country.

Meanwhile, in functioning democracies, citizens are getting support. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55139229

Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy. It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

It didn't help that we were in the middle of an election cycle when the incumbent was up for re-election. I think that greatly hurt our response to this pandemic. In the height of the 2008 election campaigning stopped so Obama, McCain, and the Bush Administration could discuss the economic crises. No way would that have happened if Obama was going against an incumbent Bush.

I'm not arguing that we handled it right...I'm just stating what I see as a fact.

[moorhosj]

If you want to argue partisan U.S. policy, knock yourself out.

I’m not particularly interested in that topic.

I was simply discussing China’s role and future safeguards against another potential virus coming out of China.

You don't realize that you are actually arguing partisan U.S. policy. Specifically, that it is worth spending time, at the height of COVID spread, to discuss what China may or may not have done a year ago. Any amount of time our leaders spend focused on things besides getting the spread of this virus under control and supporting the citizens who are being ruined financially is a political decision.

We haven't contained this virus and you are muddying things up with concerns about the next virus. You know what gives us the best chance to stop the next virus? Figuring out how to stop this one and applying those lessons. The enemy right now is the virus, not China. They will have their time.

[Dresden]

I think it's fine to be discussing China's role in handling the outbreak. But in the rush to blame China for what it did wrong, I think not enough has been said about what they have done right. If we want to not have such a terrible outcome next time, we should be studying the steps China took to halt the outbreak. They hardly have any Covid now, and their economy is back to full strength, whereas we are still suffering both medically and economically. 5K dead compared to 270K. That's a stark difference, and we in the west pride ourselves on our medical systems. Meanwhile, in China, reports are that the Chinese people can't understand how foolishly the US has behaved, and the Chinese govt. is using this as an example of the superiority of their system to ours.

Why such different outcomes? What did China do that we did not? And how can we adopt some of what they did, even now, to stop the new spike in cases?

[TheSuzerain]

And I could argue the opposite.

You could argue anything you'd like, as you've proven in this discussion, but that doesn't prove there is merit.

Did every other country but China fail?

Not at all. That's why so many people in this thread have brought up examples of other well-developed, representative democracies performing far better than the US on their response to COVID.

Mitch McConnell is refusing to provide more relief to Americans, right now. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-stimulus-update-senators-to-unveil-relief-bill.html

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected a new bipartisan $908 billion stimulus plan put forward in an effort to break the legislative stalemate as the coronavirus surges throughout the country.

Meanwhile, in functioning democracies, citizens are getting support. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55139229

Canada's federal government will spend C$100bn ($77bn, £58bn) to kick-start the country's post-pandemic economy. It is "the largest economic relief package for our country since the Second World War", Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Monday.

It didn't help that we were in the middle of an election cycle when the incumbent was up for re-election. I think that greatly hurt our response to this pandemic. In the height of the 2008 election campaigning stopped so Obama, McCain, and the Bush Administration could discuss the economic crises. No way would that have happened if Obama was going against an incumbent Bush.

I'm not arguing that we handled it right...I'm just stating what I see as a fact.

I 100% disagree.

An external crisis is literal gold to an incumbent. The GOP's negligence on this was pretty shocking. Trump coasts to re-election if he takes the pandemic seriously and takes authoritarian measures to get it under control.

[jmajew]

I 100% disagree.

An external crisis is literal gold to an incumbent. The GOP's negligence on this was pretty shocking. Trump coasts to re-election if he takes the pandemic seriously and takes authoritarian measures to get it under control.

I can't recall an external crisis like this in any election year with an incumbent. I'm only 37 though so its highly possible I just don't recall or aren't knowledgeable enough on it. I will say this, I can't imagine Democrats allowing Trump to take authoritarian measure. They were already worried about him being an authoritarian...you think they would have actually let him do it and not push back?

I think the fact we live in a democracy and so does western Europe is a big reason why none of our countries got it under control.

[Dresden]

I 100% disagree.

An external crisis is literal gold to an incumbent. The GOP's negligence on this was pretty shocking. Trump coasts to re-election if he takes the pandemic seriously and takes authoritarian measures to get it under control.

I can't recall an external crisis like this in any election year with an incumbent. I'm only 37 though so its highly possible I just don't recall or aren't knowledgeable enough on it. I will say this, I can't imagine Democrats allowing Trump to take authoritarian measure. They were already worried about him being an authoritarian...you think they would have actually let him do it and not push back?

I think the fact we live in a democracy and so does western Europe is a big reason why none of our countries got it under control.

The Iran Hostage Crisis comes to mind- and it sure didn't help Jimmy Carter. The Vietnam War in '68 was a big reason LBJ didn't run for a second term, too. He was getting creamed about that issue by Nixon.

[jnrjr79]

I think it's fine to be discussing China's role in handling the outbreak. But in the rush to blame China for what it did wrong, I think not enough has been said about what they have done right. If we want to not have such a terrible outcome next time, we should be studying the steps China took to halt the outbreak. They hardly have any Covid now, and their economy is back to full strength, whereas we are still suffering both medically and economically. 5K dead compared to 270K. That's a stark difference, and we in the west pride ourselves on our medical systems. Meanwhile, in China, reports are that the Chinese people can't understand how foolishly the US has behaved, and the Chinese govt. is using this as an example of the superiority of their system to ours.

Why such different outcomes? What did China do that we did not? And how can we adopt some of what they did, even now, to stop the new spike in cases?

One thing the pandemic is teaching me is that we shouldn't focus exclusively on what governments do in thinking about how you can control something like COVID. Our has done very poorly, obviously, but I also think that the U.S. is much less likely to have a Taiwan or Australia-like response to something like this because of American culture. We're a country founded on revolution and individual freedom. "Nobody can tell me what to do" is baked into our society on an elemental level. There are good aspects about our sort of freedom-above-everything-else mindset, but it is decidedly terribly for a pandemic. If you don't have near-total buy-in from people that they need to wear masks, avoid indoor gatherings, etc., you're never really going to get your arms around something like this as well as you'd hope to. Add to this the impact of the popularity of extreme conspiracy theories, and it's a tough situation.

So, I think you can say the Chinese government (setting aside failing to timely alert the rest of the world) handled things well in part because of its own competence, but also because it's a country with a citizenry very much used to obeying what the government tells them to do. No statistically significant part of their populace is going to respond by saying "don't tread on me" and throwing parties to protest.

Also, the natural response to this is "yeah, but China is an authoritarian country and we shouldn't be proud of them for the fact they can control their citizens so well." I agree. But you also get high levels of compliance in, say, Germany, because that culture seems to be a bit more rule-following and because they trust their government more than we do (speaking very broadly, obviously).

TL;DR, we would have saved a ton of lives with a better governmental response, but I'm skeptical you can wrangle Americans to behave in the same way you can in other countries.